Boeing sees bright future in India as clouds persist over China

[beijingwalker]

Boeing sees bright future in India as clouds persist over China​

Written by Bloomberg
November 11, 2022 5:46:30 pm

oeing Co. sees India as key to offsetting sluggish business in China. Image: Reuters

Boeing Co. sees India as key to offsetting sluggish business in China, its biggest overseas market, as it tries to seal a massive aircraft order from the South Asian nation’s flag carrier and expand its presence in the country. “With uncertainty around China, the Indian market is increasingly important to us,” John Bruns, Boeing vice president of commercial sales and marketing in India and Southeast Asia, said in an interview with Bloomberg News on Friday.

Boeing and Airbus SE are both in the running for what could be one of the largest aircraft deals ever as formerly state-run Air India Ltd. is overhauled by new owner Tata Group, which is considering adding as many as 150 737 Max jets and about 50 Airbus widebodies to its fleet. “We’re excited to be talking to them and we’re excited about that market,” Bruns said on the sidelines of a meeting of the Association of Asia Pacific Airlines in Bangkok. Beyond that, he said Boeing doesn’t comment on discussions with customers.

Boeing Offers China-Bound 737 Max Jets to Air India, Lessors. Boeing is on track to employ 5,000 staff in India, which would be its biggest overseas workforce, exceeding Australia’s 4,300, Bruns said.

As for China, Boeing’s position there is complicated by geopolitics and Covid, which has left the borders of the world’s second-biggest economy largely closed. The US manufacturer is trying to find takers for some 737 Max planes that were due to go to Chinese customers but haven’t been delivered. Carriers in China have yet to resume flying the 737 Max commercially since it was grounded in March 2019 following crashes in Indonesia and Ethiopia. “It’s still a slow recovery in China,” Bruns said. “There’s not like a huge demand for a bunch of new capacity at the moment.”

Longer term, Boeing remains bullish on China. In its latest outlook on the market, the company said it expects Chinese airlines will need 8,485 new passenger and freighter planes valued at $1.5 trillion over the next two decades, accounting for more than a fifth of global deliveries.


https://www.financialexpress.com/industry/boeing-sees-bright-future-in-india-as-clouds-persist-over-china/2806412/

 

[Skull and Bones]

Most airlines in India is going for Airbus.

 

[beijingwalker]

Most airlines in India is going for Airbus.

Then Boeing will be doomed

 

[etylo]

Good grief, you mean Indians dont care for their airlines safety, thats why they opted for Boeing now ?

 

[Catalystic]

Why not standardise on one type of aircraft ?? I think in narrow body airbus has good aircrafts with various ranges
A320, A321 and A330 and A350 are pretty good
Boeing is only good for wide bodies like B787, B777. Their narrowbody is just 737 which is tough sell compared to A320s

 

[Skull and Bones]

Then Boeing will be doomed

Unless they offer significant discount. Spicejet has a pending orders of 192 Boeing 737 Max 8, but there are talks about going for Airbus A320 Neo after recent accidents.

Because they leased Airbus aircrafts to compensate for delayed deliveries.

 

[Paitoo]

Most airlines in India is going for Airbus.

Indigo's phenomenal success since the early 2000s has been great for Airbus. Pilots, mechanics, spares, tools are easily available. It's not as if Boeing support is in shambles, but Indigo, Go Air, Deccan, Kingfisher all threw their lot in with Airbus during the boom period and that has cemented a permanent number 1 position for Airbus. Success breeds success. If the total cost of ownership is going to be the same for an A320 and a B737, I will opt for the former any day.

 

[Skull and Bones]

Indigo's phenomenal success since the early 2000s has been great for Airbus. Pilots, mechanics, spares, tools are easily available. It's not as if Boeing support is in shambles, but Indigo, Go Air, Deccan, Kingfisher all threw their lot in with Airbus during the boom period and that has cemented a permanent number 1 position for Airbus. Success breeds success. If the total cost of ownership is going to be the same for an A320 and a B737, I will opt for the former any day.

I actually check the aircraft before buying tickets, I will pay a little more to avoid Boeing 737 MAX series.

 

[Paitoo]

I actually check the aircraft before buying tickets, I will pay a little more to avoid Boeing 737 MAX series.

I too avoid 737Max for the moment. Even within the A320 operators I use only Indigo and Vistara. Avoid regional operators unless it is an emergency. Owned by third rate businessmen and absolutely shitty practices.

 

[Beast]

I actually check the aircraft before buying tickets, I will pay a little more to avoid Boeing 737 MAX series.

I too avoid 737Max for the moment. Even within the A320 operators I use only Indigo and Vistara. Avoid regional operators unless it is an emergency. Owned by third rate businessmen and absolutely shitty practices.

@gambit. Hail your mighty B737 max lemon which everybody avoid despite your bragging it as safe.

https://www.inc.com/graham-winfrey/netflix-downfall-case-against-boeing-rory-kennedy.html

'Downfall': How Boeing Put Profits Over People, With Catastrophic Results

 

[N.Siddiqui]

Indigo's phenomenal success since the early 2000s has been great for Airbus. Pilots, mechanics, spares, tools are easily available. It's not as if Boeing support is in shambles, but Indigo, Go Air, Deccan, Kingfisher all threw their lot in with Airbus during the boom period and that has cemented a permanent number 1 position for Airbus. Success breeds success. If the total cost of ownership is going to be the same for an A320 and a B737, I will opt for the former any day.

Two crashes of Boeing Max 737 must have taken some toll on the reputation and sales of Boeing overall.

The first Boeing Max 737 crashed in Indonesia in October 2018, killing 189, and another crashed five months later in Ethiopia, killing 157. All Boeing 737 Max jets were grounded worldwide for nearly two years.22-Oct-2022

Boeing's 737 Max suffered two fatal crashes, in 2018 and 2019, that were shown to be caused by a design flaw and led to a global grounding of the aircraft.

Is this the third crash, in China.??

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/03/21/business/boeing-jet-crash/index.html

 

[Paitoo]

@gambit. Hail your mighty B737 max lemon which everybody avoid despite your bragging it as safe.

https://www.inc.com/graham-winfrey/netflix-downfall-case-against-boeing-rory-kennedy.html

'Downfall': How Boeing Put Profits Over People, With Catastrophic Results

I would add that the airline also matters. In India the only 2 who operate 737s (not sure if they are Max) are 2 shitty airlines - Spice Jet and Air India Express. I will walk rather than fly their planes. But Jet Airways was a good airline from a maintenance POV and also operated 737s so I was ok with flying them. I must admit the string of issues with Max have dented my confidence.

 

[Paitoo]

Two crashes of Boeing Max 737 must have taken some toll on the reputation and sales of Boeing overall.

The first Boeing Max 737 crashed in Indonesia in October 2018, killing 189, and another crashed five months later in Ethiopia, killing 157. All Boeing 737 Max jets were grounded worldwide for nearly two years.22-Oct-2022

Boeing's 737 Max suffered two fatal crashes, in 2018 and 2019, that were shown to be caused by a design flaw and led to a global grounding of the aircraft.

Is this the third crash, in China.??

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/03/21/business/boeing-jet-crash/index.html

I have worked in the civil aviation sector for a long time and I can tell you that airlines don't differentiate much in safety (if at all) between Airbus and Boeing. Both are regarded as highly reliable and safe. Boeing's troubles with Max are recent, but Airbus had trumped them in India much before Max even came to the picture. I guess it just comes down to the skills of the local sales teams. These are normally huge deals and closed over a period of months or even years. Once you sign up, you won't be changing the aircraft type for a very long time, so buyers are extremely cautious. Several wining, dining and negotiation sessions take place before signing an agreement. Staff from local diplomatic missions also get involved. At this level of quality aircraft, it may even boil down to whether the CEOs of the two companies like each other or not

 

[S10]

I think high speed rail is more suitable for India rather than regional airlines.

 

[N.Siddiqui]

I can tell you that airlines don't differentiate much in safety (if at all) between Airbus and Boeing.

I always had this intrinsic feeling that Airbus is technologically superior to Boeing in many aspects, could be ill founded and not true.

Like, the German automobiles be it BMW, Mercedes, Porsche, Audi are regarded as superior in engineering and design, erogonomics to US makes of GM, Ford, Chevrolet and others.

But comparing car makes to Airliners does makes some sense only.





Airbus Industrie, European aircraft-manufacturing consortium formed in 1970 to fill a market niche for short- to medium-range, high-capacity jetliners. It is now one of the world’s top two commercial aircraft manufacturers, competing directly with the American Boeing Company and frequently dominating the jetliner market in orders, deliveries, or annual revenue. Full members include the German-French-Spanish-owned European Aeronautic Defence and Space Company (EADS), with an 80 percent interest, and Britain’s BAE Systems, with 20 percent. Belgium’s Belairbus and Italy’s Alenia are risk-sharing associate members in selected programs. Headquarters are near Toulouse, France.