Boeing ends contract with HAL over ‘poor quality’ of production

[The_Sidewinder]

@sancho @Abingdonboy
Your takes about the matter??
On a personal level, I think its about time MOD should Appoint a firm to monitor HALs entire production facility & rectify production & operations so that quality control of highest standard can be achieved. With proper implementation of six sigma, Zero defect wont be achieved. Its about time to make a change.

 

[Ajaysingh]

Pissed of HAL

 

[Taygibay]

Maybe now, some fanboys and their very vocal armchair general in the MMRCA thread
will understand why their accusations that Dassault's desire to partner and work with RIL
was anti-Indian and/or a scheme to rob Dehli of ToT were pure BS.
Remember the 2.7 hours to one ratio between HAL and French production lines that pushed
the MMRCA bid into overprice land? Boeing seems to have the same view.

The problem is not with Indian ingenuity or abilities. It rests in bad work ethics of civil servants
turned complacent unionized workers balking at working well and hard.
IMHoO.

Tay.

 

[Turingsage]

there is a reason why all the world's top companies have a presence in China for outsourcing manufacturing. Now you see how difficult it is to contract out production from China to other countries. Vietnamese and other dreamers dream of the day when the west will move their production to their country. Good luck to that.
Boeing at least is doing some damage control by stopping this contract while cutting some losses.

@Luca1 @TaiShang @Rechoice @AndrewJin @Beidou2020

This is same kind of stupidity prevalent amongst those who have a feeble understanding of how and why multinationals locate their plants in certain countries. There was a time when Japan Germany Korea USA all believed their ascendancy in manufacturing was permanent and could not be move elsewhere. They were wrong as is China. There is nothing wrong when this change occurs because by then China will have moved to a different level of earnings/peoples expectations/enviromental costs etc

 

[anant_s]

Maybe now, some fanboys and their very vocal armchair general in the MMRCA thread
will understand why their accusations that Dassault's desire to partner and work with RIL
was anti-Indian and/or a scheme to rob Dehli of ToT were pure BS.
Remember the 2.7 hours to one ratio between HAL and French production line that pushed
the MMRCA bid into overprice land? Boeing seems to have the same view.

The problem is not with Indian ingenuity or abilities. It rests in bad work ethics of civil servants
turned complacent unionized workers balking at working well and hard.
IMHoO.

Tay.

Mate, i guess this might be starting of a process of allowing foreign companies to choose their own partner in India.
I won't be surprised if Dassault is now allowed to pick its own Indian partner for Rafale production as and when it materializes.

 

[Taygibay]

this might be starting of a process of allowing foreign companies to choose their own partner in India.

Fingers crossed on that for Bharat's greater good!

Tay.

 

[Sam.]

Obviously,,,this is a fact.
Majority of the crashes and other problems in our armed forces could be traced back to the shitty quality control and maintainance of these wise guys.Time has come to empower the private sector.

A corrupt private sector is 100 times better than this defunct organization surviving just on the strength of trade unions and political connections.

No one can seriously defend them.

I agree no one can defent sarkari jamai.

I foolishly bought a BSNL data card and rest is history.(now i hate them or even wanted to kill them)

 

[Turingsage]

Mate, i guess this might be starting of a process of allowing foreign companies to choose their own partner in India.
I won't be surprised if Dassault is now allowed to pick its own Indian partner for Rafale production as and when it materializes.

You are living in a fantasy world. I have seen 30 yrs of these false dawns FORCED by multiple failures to tinker at the edges. They are soon consumed by the atavistic self serving desires of the political/beurocracy. You will see a thousand such "changes" which dont amount to hill of beans.

 

[Chanakya's_Chant]

Boeing ends contract with HAL over ‘poor quality’ of production

US firm’s decision comes over HAL’s ‘poor quality’ of production
By: Huma Siddiqui | New Delhi | July 30, 2015 10:16 AM

Boeing has over the last few years shifted its component sourcing requirements in India to private companies — Tata Group, Dynamatic Technologies, Rossell Techsys and others. (Photo: Reuters)



US defence major Boeing has terminated a contract with state-run Hindustan Aeronautics (HAL) for component supplies to the former’s war and commercial planes being inducted into the Indian Navy.

Boeing’s decision came after repeated reminders to HAL about its “poor quality” of production, sources said, adding that the US company’s move underlined the need for better strategies by India’s policymakers in order to bolster the order books of defence PSUs.



Boeing has over the last few years shifted its component sourcing requirements in India to private companies — Tata Group, Dynamatic Technologies, Rossell Techsys and others.

Under a $4.7-million contract signed with Boeing in 2010, HAL was to provide weapons bay doors for eight P-8I long-range maritime reconnaissance and anti-submarine warfare aircraft that the former would supply to the Indian Navy.



The contract with HAL for equipment for the P8I, through its avionics division in Hyderabad, was the first P-8I offset package that Boeing had directly executed with India’s largest aerospace company. In addition to its work on the P-8I programme, HAL was to also supply Boeing with gun bay doors and wire harnesses for the F/A-18E/F Super Hornet and uplock boxes for the 777 commercial airplane.

Boeing refused to comment for this story, while senior HAL officials said although “there were problems” (with the Boeing contract), these would be resolved.



“Boeing is already working with multiple companies in India to fulfil its commitments. We are actively working global sourcing strategies that can help make Boeing more competitive around the world, in addition to building India’s aerospace capabilities and meeting our offset commitments,” Dennis Swanson, vice-president of Boeing Defense, Space & Security (BDS) in India, had told FE in an interview earlier.



Industry sources have indicated that since 2014, Boeing has been expressing its dissatisfaction with HAL’s performance and has moved to other firms to meet its requirements. For instance, Dynamatic Technologies and Tata Advanced Materials (TAML) are delivering power and mission equipment cabinets for P-8I aircraft, and TAML is also on contract to provide P-8I auxiliary power unit door fairings. Dynamatic Technologies is on contract to manufacture the aft pylon and cargo ramp assemblies for Boeing’s CH-47F Chinook. Maini and TAL Manufacturing Solutions are on contract to provide C-17 ground support equipment to Boeing.



Boeing is interested in setting up a manufacturing base in India under the ‘Make in India’ programme. It has recently inked a framework agreement with Tata Advanced Systems to collaborate in aerospace and defence manufacturing and potential integrated systems development opportunities, including unmanned aerial vehicles.



Boeing ends contract with HAL over ‘poor quality’ of production | The Financial Express

Interestingly - a week ago HAL was ranked World's #38 Aerospace and Defence Firm - The only other Indian Company in Top 100 was BEL (Bharat Electronics Limited) at #76 which is not even a dedicated Aerospace and Defence Firm.

Leave the private sector - HAL can even learn from its buddy PSU's like BEL - which never had such issues dealing with Big Multinational Aerospace and Defence Firms like Boeing or GE.

Top 100 | Defense News, News about defense programs, business, and technology

 

[Taygibay]

Interestingly - a week ago HAL was ranked World's #38 Aerospace and Defence Firm - The only other Indian Company in Top 100 was BEL (Bharat Electronics Limited) at #76 which is not even a dedicated Aerospace and Defence Firm.

Valid point but do check that report's table : the corps are listed by defense revenues.
It's not about quality …

Still, your BEL comparison is excellent and confirms my view : it's about industrial
culture, attitude. Samtel and BEL have joint ventures with Thales that perform to the
satisfaction of both partners. 3DPLM between Geometric and Dassault does fine too.

HAL on the other hand …

Good day all, Tay.

 

[Bilal.]

Come-on,,now don't joke around man.

Well PAC has also been manufacturing parts for Boeing and never faced such situations.

 

[anant_s]

You are living in a fantasy world. I have seen 30 yrs of these false dawns FORCED by multiple failures to tinker at the edges. They are soon consumed by the atavistic self serving desires of the political/beurocracy. You will see a thousand such "changes" which dont amount to hill of beans.

You are right about our past but i hope this sincerly isn't a false start.
One basic premise behind Make in India is to involve private effort and resources. BJP goverments historically supported private sector and obviously this government isn't very optimic about placing all its strategic eggs in PSU/government aided Institutes basket. So it perhaps is correct in taking chance with private enterprise in Defence sector.
In case of fighters too, i guess government might be playing a smart game by letting LCA project funded but keeping Rafale option open with possible purchase in small tranches. In the end its quite clear Rafale and Tejas will have to fight for budget allocations but certainly IAF and government will have a choice.

 

[HAIDER]

Same case with SU30 kit , where Russian took it back to Russia for assembly.

 

[MilSpec]

@MilSpec what's your take?

don't know the details. It's common to switch out vendors due to quality issues. Quality Manager for the line should be sacked.

 

[anant_s]

don't know the details. It's common to switch out vendors due to quality issues. Quality Manager for the line should be sacked.

Do they have concept of Annual Confidential Report (ACR) at HAL?
I don't know if they will review even that critically.