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Bloody terror of Bangladesh mutiny

Indira Gandhi said whatever she wanted to say, it was her right. But, we the Bangalis also said 'Teiis sal ka badla ley liya,' how do you think of this? It was our war and we won against the Punjabis. Why to give so much importance to what Indira had said?

Was it really our war? Did we win the war against our own army?

It would have been a glorious outcome if we could have won the war alone but inviting mushrik enemy to bleed our own sacred land with our own people was anything but our war.
You are welcome to have the feeling of false victory but as far as I remember general Osmani wasn't even present when general Niazi surendered. It was general Arura of Hindustan. It would have been diffrent picture all together if Niazi surrender his pistol infront of general Osmani rather than a sikh general in Muslim Dhaka. We could have been proud to say the least a Islamic army was lost to its own fellow muslim citizen.

It was the biggest defeat of Islamic army by non muslim becasue of us. You may be proud of that war but I aint.
 
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Was it really our war? Did we win the war against our own army?

It would have been a glorious outcome if we could have won the war alone but inviting mushrik enemy to bleed our own sacred land with our own people was anything but our war.
You are welcome to have the feeling of false victory but as far as I remember general Osmani wasn't even present when general Niazi surendered. It was general Arura of Hindustan. It would have been diffrent picture all together if Niazi surrender his pistol infront of general Osmani rather than a sikh general in Muslim Dhaka. We could have been proud to say the least a Islamic army was lost to its own fellow muslim citizen.

It was the biggest defeat of Islamic army by non muslim becasue of us. You may be proud of that war but I aint.

Bangladesh army let the Pakistanis to surrender to Indian as that was what they (Pakistanis) wanted and brought quick end to the war. Your Niazi even offered gurard of honor to the General Aurora on his arrival in Dhaka, unprecedented in the history of war game.
 
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Indira Gandhi said whatever she wanted to say, it was her right. But, we the Bangalis also said 'Teiis sal ka badla ley liya,' how do you think of this? It was our war and we won against the Punjabis. Why to give so much importance to what Indira had said?

You might find it absurd but just to add another perspective into the issue, Nemat-Ullah-Shah Wali, the sear who predicted happenings of 800 years ahead has mentioned Independence of Bangladesh and its Isolation from Pakistan. He mentions that "EAST" (Pakistan) would go astray and would isolate from the "WEST"(Pakistan). He doesn't mention more about the "EAST" but has mentioned how "WEST" will undergo wars with "Hind" even after 71.

It is convenient to blame Punjabis because that shreds of responsibility of misdeeds on one's part. I don't know much about the contribution of Shaikh Mujeeb in the Independence of Bangladesh but I know the Bangla Bodhu was felt to be assassinated by the Banglis within a year or so after Independence. Do you not think there is need to re-evaluate his "contribution" and the situation that had become reason of Independence? I also had read in a forum that as an attempt to inflame hatred against the West Pakistan, Indian Forces had raped Bangladeshi women in Pakistani Uniforms?

I am putting this before you to know your comments that if Role of Bangla Bodhu is controversial, is it a proven fact that this was war against Punjabi because they assassinated and raped thousands of Bangalis? You can hate your "enemies" on ideological basis but calling this a war against Punjabis because they were rapists is not convincing. Whats your take on that?
 
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Give me one good reference which states Indira gandhi ever uttered these words " Hazaron saal ki badla ley lia '"??

Dont provide fictional notes written specially for the personal consumption of Jamaat-e-Islami fan groups.

In india,71 war is only regarded as Bangladesh Liberation War .

Yes calling so supports Indian stance of war of 71. Probebly you didn't heard about deaths of 70 thousand Kashmiris and countless rapes ever. So what Induced India to jump into the war is not a mere reason when it comes to Muslims of your own (supposedly) country. ?

And regarding Indra Gandhi calling "Hazaroon Saal ka badla", I have heard that in quite a few discussions and I would love to see any profs if she said so. But if it is true, then please keep it noted that India has taken its "avenge of thousands of year" but now they owe something to Pakistan because of Kashmir and 71. Whats your take on that?
 
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Bangladesh army let the Pakistanis to surrender to Indian as that was what they (Pakistanis) wanted and brought quick end to the war. Your Niazi even offered gurard of honor to the General Aurora on his arrival in Dhaka, unprecedented in the history of war game.

Where was our Gen. Osmani during all this? Who prevented him from attending the surrender ceremony? Not the Pakistanis. A few days ago an AL state minister in parliament said that it was our army that fought the 1971 war and won it but he was booed down by AL MP's.
 
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Was it really our war? Did we win the war against our own army?

It would have been a glorious outcome if we could have won the war alone but inviting mushrik enemy to bleed our own sacred land with our own people was anything but our war.
You are welcome to have the feeling of false victory but as far as I remember general Osmani wasn't even present when general Niazi surendered. It was general Arura of Hindustan. It would have been diffrent picture all together if Niazi surrender his pistol infront of general Osmani rather than a sikh general in Muslim Dhaka. We could have been proud to say the least a Islamic army was lost to its own fellow muslim citizen.

It was the biggest defeat of Islamic army by non muslim becasue of us. You may be proud of that war but I aint.
It was certainly our war. What do you mean by OUR ARMY? Was the Pakistan army our army when the war was imposed upon us by them? Under which law do you talk ill about our Liberation War, why it was not our war?

Do you want us to live in your fool's heaven? This may be the Pakistan Defence Forum, but do never think we are here to celebrate against the freedom fighting. Wake up and do not live in wet dreams. You are living in Bangladesh. From your posts I can see your Party affiliation, but do not try to impose your will upon us.

You are just a traitor unworthy of a citizen of a free country called Bangladesh. Get out of our land and domicile in your land of love, and preach all your stupidity there. You are the greatest Muslim in the world, so do not live in a country where there are other religionists also. I am not going to answer your circular logic here. It is a waste of time. Your curled hairs cannot be straightened whatever logic I put before you.

So, keep on writing doctrines as one of your Party man here is so fond of doing. That educated doctrinaire does not even know the difference between a big Province and a small District. But, whenever you write against the sovereignty and independence of my country , I am here to protest. I am not here for a friendship with someone who is ready to backstab the country and do feel jealous whenever there is a positive news about it.

People like you want BD not to prosper, so that you can claim that Pakistan would have been better. Do you remember your ideological Guru Moududi did not want even a separate country called Pakistan? You people now do not want a separate and successful Bangladesh.
 
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Why to live in the Past
If every nation lives in the past then Japan and USA should be the worst enemies by now but they moved on
Close the chapters which create hate and start the new ones
 
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But, you forgot the Indians of today disown the 1857 war of liberation. They are taught that it was just a mutiny that was crushed by their British masters. Even in those days the Calcutta Babus were fully against that war. Please refer to the Babu literature of those days, specially of Babu Bankim Chandra Chatterjy.

In my text books I studied of 1857 as 'The first War of Independence'. Hope that clarifies.
 
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Why to live in the Past
If every nation lives in the past then Japan and USA should be the worst enemies by now but they moved on
Close the chapters which create hate and start the new ones
Yes, I fully endorse your opinion, no one should live in the past. But, I am against those opinions that deny the sovereignty and independence of Bangladesh. In order to deny that, some people would bring out all those non-issues of the 1971 war that have no relevance in today's independent Bangladesh. BD people who stabbed our backs in 1971 remain still traitors to our land. This is why they did not win a single Parliament seat in the last election. These people seem not to be ashamed of that.

I believe we must make friendship with Pakistan on equal basis, and not at the expense of our sovereignty. Even when Pakistani people like it that way, only a few of a special political Party in this Forum propagate something else, as if the Liberation War in 1971 was not real. 1971 ka jang 'Na koi afsaana hae, ya na yeh koi khoab tha.'
 
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Yes calling so supports Indian stance of war of 71. Probebly you didn't heard about deaths of 70 thousand Kashmiris and countless rapes ever. So what Induced India to jump into the war is not a mere reason when it comes to Muslims of your own (supposedly) country. ?

U may believe it or not,indian was forced to intervene in east pakistan as the grusome coflict not just spilled over to india ,but started to amass in numbers that we could hardly take.

Here is an old International Time Magazine article that summerises precisely the situation in East pakistan which brought in india in to the war of 71.

The World: East Pakistan: Even the Skies Weep

Monday, Oct. 25, 1971

IN New Delhi last week, one member of Prime Minister Indira Gandhi's Cabinet was heard to remark: "War is inevitable." In Islamabad, President Agha Mohammed Yahya Khan spent the better part of a 40-minute television speech railing against the Indians, whom he accused of "whipping up a war frenzy." Along their borders, east and west, both India and Pakistan massed troops. Both defended the action as precautionary, but there was a real danger that a minor border incident could suddenly engulf the subcontinent in all-out war.

Several factors are at work to reduce the likelihood of such an explosion. The Indian-Soviet friendship treaty, signed early in August, deters India from waging war without consulting the Soviets. At the same time, rising discontent and political and economic pressures within West Pakistan have also placed restraints on Strongman Yahya Khan and his military regime. Nonetheless, war remains a distinct possibility. As Mrs. Gandhi said last week at a public meeting in South India: "We must be prepared for any eventuality."

Intolerable Strain. The current dispute has grown out of the Pakistani army's harsh repression of a Bengali movement demanding greater autonomy for the much-exploited eastern sector of the divided nation. The resulting flood of impoverished East Pakistani refugees has placed an intolerable strain on India's already overburdened economy. New Delhi has insisted from the first that the refugees, who now number well over 9,000,000 by official estimates, must be allowed to return safely to their homes in East Pakistan.

Before that is possible, however, a political solution must be found that would end the Pakistani army's reign of terror, wanton destruction and pogroms aimed particularly at the 10 million members of the Hindu minority in predominantly Moslem East Pakistan (pop. 78 million at the start of the civil war).


Once, Sheik Mujibur ("Mujib") Rahman, leader of the Awami League, the East's majority party, might have held the key to that solution. As the overwhelming winner of the country's first national elections last December Mujib stood to become Prime Minister of Pakistan; now he is on trial for his life before a secret military tribunal in the West on charges of treason.

Though Islamabad has ordered the military command to ease off on its repressive tactics, refugees are still trekking into India at the rate of about 30,000 a day, telling of villages burned, residents shot, and prominent figures carried off and never heard from again. One of the more horrible revelations concerns 563 young Bengali women, some only 18, who have been held captive inside Dacca's dingy military cantonment since the first days of the fighting. Seized from Dacca University and private homes and forced into military brothels, the girls are all three to five months pregnant. The army is reported to have enlisted Bengali gynecologists to abort girls held at military installations. But for those at the Dacca cantonment it is too late for abortion. The military has begun freeing the girls a few at a time, still carrying the babies of Pakistani soldiers.


A Million Dead. No one knows how many have died in the seven-month-old civil war. But in Karachi, a source with close connections to Yahya's military regime concedes: "The generals say the figure is at least 1,000,000." Punitive raids by the Pakistani army against villages near sites sabotaged by the Mukti Bahini, the Bengali liberation army, are an everyday occurrence.

The fighting is expected to increase sharply in the next few weeks, with the end of the monsoon rains. Both the Pakistani army, most of whose 80,000 troops are bunkered down along the Indian border, and the Mukti Bahini, with as many as 60,000 guerrilla fighters, have said that they will soon open major new military offensives.

Plentiful Arms. On a recent trip deep into Mukti Bahini territory, TIME Correspondent Dan Coggin found an almost surreal scene. He cabled:

"Leaving the road behind, I entered a strange world where water is seasonal king and the only transport is a large, cane-covered canoe known as the country boat. For seven hours we plied deeper into Gopalganj subdivision in southern Faridpur district. The two wiry oarsmen found their way by taking note of such landmarks as a forlornly decaying maharajah's palace and giant butterfly nets hovering like outsized flamingos on stilt legs at water's edge.

"As darkness approached, we were able to visit two neighboring villages, with about 25 guerrillas living among the local folk in each. The guerrillas were mostly men in their 20s, some ex-college students, others former soldiers, militiamen and police. Their arms were various but plentiful, and they had ammunition, mines and grenades.

"A Mukti Bahini captain told me that the Bengali rebels are following the three-stage guerrilla warfare strategy of the Viet Cong, and are now in the first phase of organization and staging hit-and-run attacks. So far the guerrillas in the captain's area of operations have lost about 50 men, and larger army attacks are expected. But the Mukti Bahini plan to mount ambushes and avoid meeting army firepower headon.

"On my way back to Dacca next day, I came upon a convoy trucker who had been waiting for five days for his turn to board a ferry and cross the miles-wide junction of the great Ganges and Brahmaputra rivers. As we huddled under the tailgate to keep dry, a shopkeeper joined us. Gazing at the puddle forming beneath us, he said: 'Even the skies are weeping for this land.' "

Always Hungry. As conditions within East Pakistan have worsened, so have those of the refugees in India. The stench from poor sanitation facilities hangs heavy in the air. Rajinder Kumar, 32, formerly a clerk in Dacca, says he is "always hungry" on his daily grain ration of 300 grams (about 1½ cups). His three children each get half that much. "They cry for more," he says, "but there isn't any more."

Malnutrition has reached desperate proportions among the children. Dr. John Seamon, a British doctor with the Save the Children Fund who has traveled extensively among the 1,000 or so scattered refugee camps estimates that 150,000 children between the ages of one and eight have died, and that 500,000 more are suffering from serious malnutrition and related diseases.


It is now officially estimated that refugees will swell to 12 million by the end of the year. The cost to the Indian government for the fiscal year ending next March 31 may run as high as $830 million. The U.S. so far has supplied $83.2 million for the refugees, and $137 million in "humanitarian" relief inside East Pakistan. Two weeks ago, the Nixon Administration asked Congress to grant an additional $250 million.

Observers doubt that the situation would ease even if Yahya were to release Mujib and lift a ban on the Awami League. Where the Bengalis once were merely demanding greater autonomy, they now seem determined to fight for outright independence.

his speech last week, Yahya also announced that the National Assembly would be convened in December, immediately following by-elections in the East to fill the Assembly seats vacated by disqualified Awami Leaguers. With the main party banned from participation, however, the election is likely to provoke more violence. Already the Mukti Bahini have vowed to treat candidates as dalals ("collaborators").

Nonetheless, Yahya may find himself compelled to put his government at least partly in civilian hands. Zulfikar Ali Bhutto, leader of West Pakistan's majority Pakistan People's Party and Yahya's most probable choice for Prime Minister, has become more and more outspoken about "the rule of the generals." Recently he said: "The long night of terror must end. The people of Pakistan must take their destiny in their own hands." Formerly that sort of talk would have landed him in jail. Now even Yahya seems to have recognized that unless the military allows some sort of civilian rule it may face trouble in the West as well as in the ravaged East.

The World: East Pakistan: Even the Skies Weep - TIME
 
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I am surprised that some here feel that the 1971 war cannot be subject to revision or reinterpretation on the basis of new information. In debate nothing can be closed forever and certain attitudes may require revisiting. That we must hate Pakistan forever seems nonsensical or that we should blame Pakistanis who had no part in the war is also absurd. We now know that India committed atrocities in East Pakistan through proxies and continued to do so well after independence (Rakkhi Banini and BSF) but we hardly hear any anger or outrage about this. This thread is about the BDR mutiny which many believe was orchestrated by India but we are nevertheless discussion irrelevant issues on 1971.

At the same time it is discourteous and poor manners to behave badly in someone else's house. If one does not approve of the host one should leave the party. One should not demand that the host demolish his house to accommodate his guests. There are better ways to resolve an issue than hurling insults at each other. One should only do that with the Indians ..... (LOL) :woot::woot::cheesy::bounce:;):victory:
 
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You might find it absurd but just to add another perspective into the issue, Nemat-Ullah-Shah Wali, the sear who predicted happenings of 800 years ahead has mentioned Independence of Bangladesh and its Isolation from Pakistan. He mentions that "EAST" (Pakistan) would go astray and would isolate from the "WEST"(Pakistan). He doesn't mention more about the "EAST" but has mentioned how "WEST" will undergo wars with "Hind" even after 71.

It is convenient to blame Punjabis because that shreds of responsibility of misdeeds on one's part. I don't know much about the contribution of Shaikh Mujeeb in the Independence of Bangladesh but I know the Bangla Bodhu was felt to be assassinated by the Banglis within a year or so after Independence. Do you not think there is need to re-evaluate his "contribution" and the situation that had become reason of Independence? I also had read in a forum that as an attempt to inflame hatred against the West Pakistan, Indian Forces had raped Bangladeshi women in Pakistani Uniforms?

I am putting this before you to know your comments that if Role of Bangla Bodhu is controversial, is it a proven fact that this was war against Punjabi because they assassinated and raped thousands of Bangalis? You can hate your "enemies" on ideological basis but calling this a war against Punjabis because they were rapists is not convincing. Whats your take on that?
With all respect, I would like to hear more about what the learned Suufi had said about the future. But, it is not wise now to blame HINDU Indians for rapes and killings in east Pakistan in 1971. There was no way they could enter our land. There was Pak military, Pak militias and our local Razakars who were guarding the border as well as interior. Moreover, Mukti Bahini troops were also vigilant.

The local Razakars were more dangerous than the others because they knew the terrain and flood water was no problem for them. These traitors helped the Pakistan army to do those things.

Indian troops did not enter before the Pak-India war started, and no Indian was captured for doing all those un-Islamic brutalities. Even after 16 December, they did not do any of those heinous acts that the Pakistan army so fondly did. There is not a single such case. They probably had strict orders not to indulge in crimes. Quite opposite of what your Tiger Niazi had ordered his troops.

I have seen a BD traitor to first blame Indians in this Forum, and you are just believing him. It is just not correct. Instead of avoiding the responsibility of misdeeds and crimes by the Pakistan army and even by the commandoes, the govt of Pakistan must come with straight apology. Then, you will see its positive effects on the relationship.

Now, about political killings. It will take a 200 page book to describe such a killing. But, note that Pakistan's first PM Liaqat Ali Khan, Benazir Bhutto were also killed. How about the hanging of Z. A. Bhutto, was it not a killing? Then think of Mohandas Karimchand Gandhi and Indira Gandhi.

There were similar political killings in BD as well. The first victim was Sk. Mujib, then there were 4 killings of top BD leaders inside the jail compound. After that Brigadier Khalid Musharref, then President Ziaur Rahman were also killed. In between there was Col. Taher who was hanged. Also note, there were hanging by ropes of MANY HUNDRED army and airforce officers by President Zia.

Only recently, 57 military officers were killed in BD and many hundred BDR jawans may have to hang for that. So, in a half democratic country like BD this type of politically induced killings may continue for some more years. Comparing to Pakistan, BD has seen many more times of such killings. We have to accept the truth.
 
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You need to see a psychiatric before losing your left over brain. Read my post and answer it with constructive logic rather than emotion blabbering that hold no solid ground. I have mention some fact that can be answer with logic and facts but you decided to ignore it. You emotional attack clearly shown some frustration.

Under which law do you talk ill about our Liberation War, why it was not our war?

Mukti would not have been created if Hindustan didn't help with finance, weapon, training and use it's territory. There would not be a full blown war if Hindustan stayed neutral and stayed away from internal matter of a sovereign country called Pakistan. You Bengali nationalist need to admit this fact that without Hindustan direct and indirect help bd would not have been possible. Stop being double face munafiq and start kissing your master instead of criticize them in Pakistan defense forum.

I for one hate Hindustan because they weaken the Islamic power for their own interest.


Do you want us to live in your fool's heaven? This may be the Pakistan Defence Forum, but do never think we are here to celebrate against the freedom fighting. Wake up and do not live in wet dreams. You are living in Bangladesh. From your posts I can see your Party affiliation, but do not try to impose your will upon us.

Since you joint this forum I have not make any comment on your post. You decided to ask me a question thus I have answered it. I ain't imposing nothing on you or anyone else. I have right to post my view and you have yours. You don't like my post than simply ignore instead being fooled enough to drag me into this BS quagmire. It's doesn't matter if I am in pak defense or bd defence but fact is I will not hesitate to have your bloody nose to prove a logical point even if its goes against all odd. I am not the one with double face munafiq view.



You are just a traitor unworthy of a citizen of a free country called Bangladesh. Get out of our land and domicile in your land of love, and preach all your stupidity there. You are the greatest Muslim in the world, so do not live in a country where there are other religionists also. I am not going to answer your circular logic here. It is a waste of time. Your curled hairs cannot be straightened whatever logic I put before you.

So, keep on writing doctrines as one of your Party man here is so fond of doing. That educated doctrinaire does not even know the difference between a big Province and a small District. But, whenever you write against the sovereignty and independence of my country , I am here to protest. I am not here for a friendship with someone who is ready to backstab the country and do feel jealous whenever there is a positive news about it.

First stop being a munafiq and ask him the question directly. Who give you authority to called me a traitor and you are a self proclaimed patriot. What have you and your family have done for Bd you double face munafiq? How much do you even know me you scum. Why should your view be right and mine isn't. Be man enough to expect different prospective.

It's all about the ideology. My and other like me is straight froward with our views. At the end only the strong will survive. Lets see if Bangladesh stay Islamic or turn into a land of mushrik. So far it's going our way thus you need to work harder to reverse the process.

People like you want BD not to prosper, so that you can claim that Pakistan would have been better. Do you remember your ideological Guru Moududi did not want even a separate country called Pakistan? You people now do not want a separate and successful Bangladesh
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You need to see a physician because your brain fart stinking up this place.
 
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Al-zakir, are you alright? But, how long you will be oiling Pakistan? Even Pakistani people do not like your kind of CHAMCHA when you want to destroy BD's State mechanism. After 37 years of psychiatric treatment we could not cure you people's mental disease. Specially, it has turned to worse when you did not win a single seat in the Parliament. Now, when I pinpoint it you become emotionally charged, and you call someone Munafiq.

You should better visit your west to get cured. When you are cured, then only send a post. Why do you make yourself a laughing stock of others by writing emotional things and doing name calling? You better check in now to a mental hospital, and get rid of your anti-BD phobia.

Nobody is destroying BD except people like you whose salespoint is only the LEBAS of our great religion. But, you have already failed in BD, then why to appease Pakistan anymore? Don't you remember that you have not won a single seat and in the process you have almost destroyed BNP, too? BNP will revive, but not your Party.
 
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EW> Zakir's is not anti- BD phobia. He cannot just stand Bharati interference and Bharati manipulation of his country, just like any good Muslim
This is something you and I also cannot stand. The present Govt is an extension of Bharati mechanism that runs this country, nothing else.
I think you two have much in common and less in conflict if you delve deeply into this matter.
I can give you many many quotes from your own comments to show you two are saying the same thing just differently.
The Pakistanis who did, indeed commit atrocities are no more active, alive or relevant. Why we cannot have a bloody good relationship with Pakistan now, where India is squeezing us into a corner and leaving us no choice, is not clear to me.
We do not really have to dig out the ghost every time we open our mouths. See the post above by our brother Gin ka Pakistan has given us a landmark example of USA and Japan. No country suffered as much as Japan and Germany in the big War. Japan is the only country that thus far that had a nuclear holocaust - not once but twice, and yet the Japs do not hold it as a grudge against the Americans.
And most surely Al Zakir as others have every right to have their say as anybody else.
 
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