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Blast in Karachi

Islam is part and parcel of Pakistan... Like it or not, you cannot get rid of it... The only problem is it is being hijacked by certain very evil people, and I blame all secularists for this who spare no moment praising and singing about the west...
France remained a Catholic country even after the Church was removed from power. The key to maintaining religious influence and identity in "secular" democratic government is for them to be expressed via political parties, not the pulpit.
 
^^
The Definition of Secularism is often misunderstood , However it does varies from Culture to Culture.
 
France remained a Catholic country even after the Church was removed from power. The key to maintaining religious influence and identity in "secular" democratic government is for them to be expressed via political parties, not the pulpit.


France had her share of the inter- faiths war toward the end of the 16th Century which lasted 30 years. The protagonists were Cathlolics & Protestants (Huguenots). Nearly 10,000 Huguenots were killed on the occasion of the wedding of Henry of Navarre and Marguerite de Valois in August 1572.

Protestants leader Henry of Navarre even though victor of many decisive battles eventually had to convert to Catholicism before he could be crowned King of France in 1594. From that day onwards France has remained a largely Catholic country. Therefore France is not a good example of secular thinking.

Trouble is that Pakistan is going thru now what France went thru 500 years ago!
 
Trouble is that Pakistan is going thru now what France went thru 500 years ago!

It is unfortunate that we did not learn from history and overlooked the wise words of our founding father Jinnah who said:

As you know, history shows that in England, conditions, some time ago, were much worse than those prevailing in India today. The Roman Catholics and the Protestants persecuted each other. Even now there are some States in existence where there are discriminations made and bars imposed against a particular class.

Thank God, we are not starting in those days. We are starting in the days where there is no discrimination, no distinction between one community and another, no discrimination between one caste or creed and another. We are starting with this fundamental principle that we are all citizens and equal citizens of one State. The people of England in course of time had to face the realities of the situation and had to discharge the responsibilities and burdens placed upon them by the government of their country and they went through that fire step by step. Today, you might say with justice that Roman Catholics and Protestants do not exist; what exists now is that every man is a citizen, an equal citizen of Great Britain and they are all members of the Nation.

How deeply troubling it is to see Pakistan being run on the opposite of what Jinnah had intended for it to be.
 
Expatriate communities can advocate change at home. With good leadership they may advocate for reform, revolution, or even foreign invasion as liberation.

Our expatriate communities do play an important part but not as one single unit becuase even outside of Pakistan, caste, creed, sect and religion plays a part in their point of view and what they want the country to be.

It is unfortunate that the Islamists have a considerable number of them located in foreign countries where they continue to malign and hassle other groups.

Here, what do you make of this?

Well i certainly hope that I and many others can follow in the footsteps of Truman and similar individuals to bring the required change in our national get up.

You can judge a country by looking at how it treats its minorities, though Truman changed the course of a nation, the problems that were faced by the minorities of America were gradually solved after the core the nation was filled with integrity and a penchant for equality.

Things take their course but its a slow process and in Pakistans case, the country started off well but descended into a religious myopic land of violence.
 
France remained a Catholic country even after the Church was removed from power. The key to maintaining religious influence and identity in "secular" democratic government is for them to be expressed via political parties, not the pulpit.

Nope... France became a "secular" country after the Church was removed from power... There is a difference between the two... The Church has burnt people on the cross for sins such as translating the bible into English... We cannot take the western secular model because we never had an institution like the Church in our history... Islam has no place for clergies and everyone is held responsible for his/her duties and obligations... Also when Islam was applied, Muslims had glory and victory, when Islam was not applied... be my guest and see our situation today...

I agree with your point about political parties... I am opposed to the idea however that we can be two things at the same time... We are either Muslim or we are Not... We cannot be both at the same time... So on one hand we believe that we should not have any interest in our transactions but on the other we say its ok to deal in interest? The question that comes to anyone's mind is... what are you? a hypocrite?

The problem with our political parties (including the religious ones) is that they all suck up to the west... This is why people dont trust them and many people have started supporting violent groups...
 
Our expatriate communities do play an important part but not as one single unit becuase even outside of Pakistan, caste, creed, sect and religion plays a part in their point of view and what they want the country to be.
Perhaps more dynamic discussion and organization is needed. Leadership, but not necessarily unity; the desire for unity gives too much power to spoilers.

It is unfortunate that the Islamists have a considerable number of them located in foreign countries where they continue to malign and hassle other groups.
Is it? The "Islamists" are also dissatisfied with the current government in Pakistan, are they not? Yet they cannot point to any tangible benefits to Islamization, can they? Could these people now be aching for some sort of alternative?

Well i certainly hope that I and many others can follow in the footsteps of Truman and similar individuals to bring the required change in our national get up.
There are many differences between Pakistan and 1920's Missouri. First, the democratic mechanism - elections and vote counting - appears to have been honest. Second, taxes were collected from local citizens who actually voted the taxes upon themselves. Third, money collected from these taxes were the only funds available for public works projects that were controlled and built on the local level; there were no NGOs.

So there were two factors favorable to the development of honest political leadership: the desire of the people for accountability of their tax dollars and the need of the political parties to keep the public vote by pushing people with competency and responsibility in how monies were spent.

...though Truman changed the course of a nation, the problems that were faced by the minorities of America were gradually solved after the core the nation...its a slow process and in Pakistans case -
Between 1877 and 1940 segregation and racial bigotry actually INCREASED. None of the social change you cite happened by a natural "slow process"; they happened because INDIVIDUALS dared to step forward and help make them so:

Roosevelt advanced integration by a fair employment practices board only because he was threatened with a mass demonstration by black unions in the middle of WWII; Truman, building on this and examples he had witnessed plus the reputation of black soldiers in WWII, integrated the armed forces of his own volition by executive fiat; Supreme Court justices appointed by Roosevelt, Truman, and Eisenhower struck down segregation; President Eisenhower took the critical step of enforcing this judgment upon unwilling states; and finally President Johnson built the support of civil-rights leaders into the 1965 Voting Rights Act which ensured these gains would be permanent.

Yet would any of this have happened if in 1941 America lacked that one organizer from the Brotherhood of Sleeping-Car Porters who canvassed the barber shops and streets of Harlem, cajoling people to go to Washington en masse to demand better jobs? link I don't think so.
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We just have to fight these thugs and wipe them out from the tribal areas because that is where is the head of the snake is. Plus we have to also eliminate the financial sources specially the Indian RAW funding to the Talibaan.
 
The explosives are coming from Afghanistan and this is all happening under the nose of ISAF and impotent Afghan Government.
 
The explosives are coming from Afghanistan and this is all happening under the nose of ISAF and impotent Afghan Government.
What is this, a hypothesis? Or do you actually believe in this as a fact? And how is this supposed to help?
 
Pakistanis, its time to withdraw from Afghanistan.

The talibans has done more damage to your nation, then India done, in the lost war and thats saying something.
 
Pakistanis, its time to withdraw from Afghanistan.

The talibans has done more damage to your nation, then India done, in the lost war and thats saying something.

That is not an option.

Read into Pak-Afghan relationships to understand why.
 
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