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We spoke earlier of how a "useful idiot" is always found to allieviate pressure and suggest some alternate option - below is a piece from todays DT -- to all those who love Jinnah's Pakistan, all insurgency have common parameters and we can use these to study and to predict their actions -- just my previous post on this thread



Pakistan on suicidal course, says Imran

LAHORE: Pakistan's military offensive against the Taliban will backfire and fuel more extremism and bomb attacks, Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaaf (PTI) President Imran Khan warned last week while speaking in London. “I have never been so depressed in my life,” he said, adding, “Pakistan is on a suicidal course.” “I’m not pro-Taliban. But my point is, shouldn’t we have looked at other options? How do you justify using heavy artillery, helicopter gunships and F-16 fighter-jets in civilian areas? Who in the world does this? Meanwhile, the top Taliban leadership has escaped,” he said. daily times monitor

PAF is only targeting terrorists not civilians,Imran is basically sports man for him to understand the idealogy of Al Aqaida is little difficult.He need to learn indepth what is salfi faith.
 
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Fundamentalist

It's immaterial what the PAF or the PA are doing, information operation of the islamist would have a problem with anything other than their agenda, with their strategy.

"Useful idiots" are just that - I encourage you to examine where Imran issued the statement from - Peshawar?? Wana?? Bannu? D.I. Khan?? Lahore?? -- Imran says he's depressed, as he enjoys London - maybe he is there to visit his children, perhaps it may not have occured to him why his children cannot visit him in Pakistan, could it be "security"??? Alas, for those whose 12 yr olds are duped for Rs. 50.00, not for Imran's children, thank God. - May be Imran will think things through.
 
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Targeting of relief agencies staff adds to IDPs miseries

Monday, June 15, 2009
By Qaiser Khan Afridi

PESHAWAR: The militants’ strategy to target the NGOs and UN agencies working for the internally displaced persons (IDPs) has added to the miseries of the already distressed and displaced from their native areas.

The insurgents — having no concern for the woes of the masses — on the one hand displaced thousands of people while on the other they are bent upon scaring away those providing assistance to the war-affected people of Malakand division.

Though the militants are responsible for the huge displacement of the people of Malakand division, the operation at the eleventh hour also left people with no option but to flee the region.The government too failed to evolve a post-operation strategy to cope with the huge influx of people.

The June 9 blast at the lone five-star hotel in Peshawar left 17 people dead and many wounded. Most of the foreigners caught in the hotel explosion were the ones working in the UN agencies and other organizations providing relief to the affectees of military operation in Malakand division.

At the time of the blast, officials of the WFP, UNHCR and UNFPA, who had arrived in Peshawar, were present in the hotel to take stock of the IDPs situation.One of the two UN staff members killed was Perseveranda So, a Unicef education specialist from the Philippines. The other was Alexander Vorkapic, a Serbian information technology specialist for the UNHCR. The three injured UN staff members included a Briton national of the WFP.

The UN aid agencies had already warned that their efforts to help IDPs in Malakand division were in trouble due to fund shortfall. The shortfall coupled with attack on the PC has raised fears that the recent military gains against the Taliban in Swat could be undermined by a failure to help more than two million refuges from the area.

After the attack on the Pearl Continental Hotel, the United Nations has shifted most of its international staff from Peshawar.The blast in Peshawar’s most secured area had not only exposed the security lapses but also deprived the city of the lone five-star hotel where functions and high-level gatherings would take place.

Due to the inefficiency of the government and security agencies, Peshawar, once known as the city of flowers, has become a no-go area for the foreigners and for many Pakistanis as the locals, too, are avoiding visiting public places for fear of terrorism.
 
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Friends


This forum informed you on aspects of the Islamist insurgency - this forum explained that the strategy of the Islamist enemy was to intimidate others from issuing Fatwas against the Islamists and we also informed you that creating sectarian strife in Pakistan is a persistent ambition of the Islamist. This forum informed you that the purpose of the attack on the PC in Peshawar was to create further problems with regard to the IDP --- Have we been correct?? below is an editorial from "The News International":

A terrible threat



Monday, June 15, 2009
The letter sent to an Imambargah in Lahore, and reproduced by this newspaper, says nothing that is very new. It threatens an attack on the place of worship unless Shias stop ‘anti-Islamic’ activities. It insists the Shias are in fact ‘non-Muslims’. What is shocking is that we as a people, and as a state, have done so little to stop such attacks, to act against those who promote hatred for a community that according to some estimates forms around 20 per cent of the country’s Muslim population.

The attempt to label the Shias as ‘non-Muslims’ has been on for decades. The process has gained pace since the 1990s, when the Sipah-e-Sahaba Pakistan (SSP) initiated a systematic process of murdering Shias by bombing mosques or gunning down leaders. Retaliation by Shia groups triggered sectarian violence that killed hundreds and devastated numerous families. The ban placed on extremist groups has not ended this process. The Taliban, with their distorted beliefs linked to orthodox Sunni schools of thought, have carried forward the process. In the Kurram Agency – the lone tribal areas where Shias formed a sizeable chunk of the population – there has been something akin to genocide. According to some accounts the killings continue.

This is a part of a larger process. The effort to cast the Shias in the role of a religious minority stems from the fact that the state connived with orthodox forces in the 1970s. Pakistan after all is made up of many diverse groups. It can flourish only if each of these communities can do so. And for non-Muslims, the situation is of course still more perilous. Our government must wake up to reality. Only by acting now can we save our state from further violence and halt the process of irrational violence that has led to more and more schisms.



Friends, for the love of Jinnah's Pakistan, don't let them succeed, inform yourself, ediucate yourself on the reality of this islamist insurgency - they will hide behind all kinds of names, but at the end of the day their emnity against the creation of the person they label "Kafir e Azam" will be clear. Defeat them, only you can, whether by support to the patriotic Fauj and more importantly by raising your voice against bigotry, against using religion as a ideology, as a tool of political expediency.
 
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This from today's "Nation" -- yeah, we told you so, about how voices will be raised to al.low the talib enemy respite, you will it find interesting just who is "suggesting" ALTERNATIVES :



Operation not the only option: Saudi envoy
Published: June 15, 2009

Military operation is only one way to deal with militants while there are other options that can be tried to tackle terrorism.
This was stated by Saudi Ambassador Ali S Awadh Asseri while talking to a private TV channel at the Saudi Embassy Sunday.
He said enlightened religious scholars and traditional ljirgas could be involved to seek a solution to the militancy
. Development and reforms are other options that could prove effective to stem the tide of terrorism, he added.
Saudi Arabia, he said, is always ready to help Pakistan in its efforts to restore peace in the country.
 
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Yes, we also informed you what while islamist political parties and useful idiots will suggest Alternatives to give "political legitimacy" to the Talib because Talib only want peace, Talib will not cease terrorism and will argue that they only "respond" when attacked and that this is a course of action they will employ simultaneously:


Rush-hour bomb blast kills nine in DI Khan
Published: June 15, 2009 PESHAWAR - At least nine people, including five children, were killed and 50 others injured when a high-intensity bomb exploded in one of the busiest markets of Dera Ismail Khan during rush hour on Sunday.
Some unknown saboteurs had planted the bomb in an animal-driven cart, parked inside Gillani Market, which exploded with a big bang killing nine people, including five children, and injuring more than 50 others.
District Police Officer Mohammad Iqbal Khan, when contacted, confirmed the deaths. He also said that condition of three injured was critical.
Divisional Headquarters Hospital sources informed the media that more than 50 injured were brought to the hospital. However, around 10 of them were discharged after first medical aid, they said. Soon after the explosion, police and civil administration officials reached the site and supervised rescue operation. The authorities believed that the blast could be a reaction to the ongoing military operation against militants.
The police on occasion also claimed to have arrested two alleged suicide bombers from the hospital premises, who were later shifted to an unknown location for interrogation.
Immediately after the blast, all the bazaars and markets of the city were closed and people protested against the government. They chanted slogans against religio-sectarian forces and the government.
It may be mentioned here that Dera Ismail Khan, owing to religious-cum-sectarian strife, has been a scene of violent incidents as dozens of explosions here have killed hundreds of people.
Meanwhile, President Asif Zardari, Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani, Speaker National Assembly Dr Fehmida Mirza, Deputy Speaker Faisal Kundi, NWFP Governor Owais Ghani, Chief Minister Amir Khan Hoti, Federal Information Minister Qamar Zaman Kaira and several other federal and provincial ministers and political leaders have condemned the blast.
The President said that such cowardly acts of the terrorists could not deter the government and it would continue fighting militancy in the country. He also condoled the deaths of the innocent people killed in the incident.
Prime Minister while expressing sorrow over the deaths directed the authorities concerned to conduct inquiry into the blast.
 
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Friends


This forum informed you on aspects of the Islamist insurgency - this forum explained that the strategy of the Islamist enemy was to intimidate others from issuing Fatwas against the Islamists and we also informed you that creating sectarian strife in Pakistan is a persistent ambition of the Islamist. This forum informed you that the purpose of the attack on the PC in Peshawar was to create further problems with regard to the IDP --- Have we been correct?? below is an editorial from "The News International":

A terrible threat



Monday, June 15, 2009
The letter sent to an Imambargah in Lahore, and reproduced by this newspaper, says nothing that is very new. It threatens an attack on the place of worship unless Shias stop ‘anti-Islamic’ activities. It insists the Shias are in fact ‘non-Muslims’. What is shocking is that we as a people, and as a state, have done so little to stop such attacks, to act against those who promote hatred for a community that according to some estimates forms around 20 per cent of the country’s Muslim population.

The attempt to label the Shias as ‘non-Muslims’ has been on for decades. The process has gained pace since the 1990s, when the Sipah-e-Sahaba Pakistan (SSP) initiated a systematic process of murdering Shias by bombing mosques or gunning down leaders. Retaliation by Shia groups triggered sectarian violence that killed hundreds and devastated numerous families. The ban placed on extremist groups has not ended this process. The Taliban, with their distorted beliefs linked to orthodox Sunni schools of thought, have carried forward the process. In the Kurram Agency – the lone tribal areas where Shias formed a sizeable chunk of the population – there has been something akin to genocide. According to some accounts the killings continue.

This is a part of a larger process. The effort to cast the Shias in the role of a religious minority stems from the fact that the state connived with orthodox forces in the 1970s. Pakistan after all is made up of many diverse groups. It can flourish only if each of these communities can do so. And for non-Muslims, the situation is of course still more perilous. Our government must wake up to reality. Only by acting now can we save our state from further violence and halt the process of irrational violence that has led to more and more schisms.



Friends, for the love of Jinnah's Pakistan, don't let them succeed, inform yourself, ediucate yourself on the reality of this islamist insurgency - they will hide behind all kinds of names, but at the end of the day their emnity against the creation of the person they label "Kafir e Azam" will be clear. Defeat them, only you can, whether by support to the patriotic Fauj and more importantly by raising your voice against bigotry, against using religion as a ideology, as a tool of political expediency.


Absolutely Spot on.

It is absolutely essential that the likes of us not be bullyied into submission when someone uses the name of Islam to counter our pro Pakistan point of view.
Pakistan is not a joke and is certainly not something we cannot justify being Muslims.
We are no less Muslims when we live abroad so how come our sentiments for Pakistan (which is home to so many Muslims) are so easily bombarded by the Taliban apologists as being unislamic?

We should note that even in the early Islamic caliphate there were huge provinces which had governors to look after the affairs.
Each province was quite autonomous in its economy, law and order and local defence.
There was a geographical boundary where each governor was to establish the writ as per his discretion until deemed as per against basic guidelines.

Afterwards the Islamic empire was a union of various kingdoms, sultatnates and self governing mini states which used to be under the token leadership of a Caliph (this was in the crusades era).
Salahudding was the ruler of Egypt and Syria and there were many powerful kings etc who looked after their own kingdoms and made sure their writ was established within a geographical area.

When the Ottoman conquered the land they became the masters and so established their writ in their name and in being Muslims they automatically became the symbol of Muslim power.

The symbol of Islamic Power shifted throughout the history to those who had made themselves the most worthy of being called a super power and were able to exert their writ in the majority of Muslim Land!

My point is that there is nothing unislamic about Pakistan and its bid to protect is boundaries.
There is nothing Islamic about dismembering Pakistan and targetting its people...
There was never any justification to carry out this bloodshed unilaterally by TTP and when the state has finally responded to ensure the safety of its people and in defence of its boundary...we have people shedding crocodile tears over the brutality of the conflict and demanding a halt of army operation.

What ails us that we cannot even stand up for what is clearly something in the defence of our country and our people?
One cannot simply give in to the likes of TTP...no way is that ever going to solve any of our problems.

Pakistan first and foremost should be our motto and we should know that in protecting Pakistan we shall actually be making Muslims stronger and not vice versa as we have been led to believe by those who are always willing to provide justifications of all what Taliban are doing.

We need to engage our families, friends and all those who are still confused and hammer into their minds what is it that we are and should be fighting for.
 
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He said enlightened religious scholars and traditional jirgas could be involved to seek a solution to the militancy

If by militancy it is implied TTP then first of all they are terrorists and not just any militants.
What logic does a terrorist organization follow except brute force?

Absolutely retarded comments but really what can we do when our own great leaders of various provinces and great parties are also giving a mute response.

This very thread is dedicated to such an enlightened religious scholar who was assassinated by TTP.
I have also cited many times how hundreds of tribal elders and Jirgas were also assassinated by TTP over the last few years.
In brief all the means suggested have both been targetted by TTP!

This is a drift of fresh breeze from the cuckooland!
 
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Also PAF is not just dropping dumb bombs..It's using Preicision Guided bombs.I think PAF Spokesperson should clarify this in Media.
 
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All Green


This is part of the strategy -- see, the Saudi ambassador has done two things we predicted the insurgents would do - first the Saudi ambassador called for a "Jirga" and second he called for the inclusion of "scholars" -- now the purpose of the Jirga is give "political" legitimacy to the insurgency and second, the "scholars" will not be those see this insurgency as primarily anti-Pakistan and anti-islamic, after all, did the scholars not see what will happen to them if they do not agree with the insurgents?

Our forum member, S2, had informed us that funds from Saudi Arabia and the gulf countries are pouring into the talib coffers, I think it's pretty clear after the comments of the Saudi ambassador, that Saudi Arabia is playing a curious offical role, it is a kind of double game with Pakistan in support of a particular political outcome in Pakistan.
 
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All Green


This is part of the strategy -- see, the Saudi ambassador has done two things we predicted the insurgents would do - first the Saudi ambassador called for a "Jirga" and second he called for the inclusion of "scholars" -- now the purpose of the Jirga is give "political" legitimacy to the insurgency and second, the "scholars" will not be those see this insurgency as primarily anti-Pakistan and anti-islamic, after all, did the scholars not see what will happen to them if they do not agree with the insurgents?

Our forum member, S2, had informed us that funds from Saudi Arabia and the gulf countries are pouring into the talib coffers, I think it's pretty clear after the comments of the Saudi ambassador, that Saudi Arabia is playing a curious offical role, it is a kind of double game with Pakistan in support of a particular political outcome in Pakistan.

Given the absolutely pathetic role played by Naraz Sharif i have to say that i am also afraid Saudi Arabia is really just furthering one party's political career at the cost of Pakistan.

Still i blame this party more because of its loyalty to its political career rather than Pakistan. Saudi Arab thinks it is supporting the next government of Pakistan but what a friendship indeed if they are selective in their cooperation...reinforces our point that there are no friends of Pakistan unless they have some mutual benefit in the relationship...time to wake up.

PML N is becoming fast the symbol for impotency i am afraid.
Must take the tiger off their crest and send their leaders to the Younaani Dawaa Khana!
...certainly nothing tigrish about anything they are doing or even saying!

I never thought i would say such a thing but i am 100% disillusioned with PML-N and their will (leave alone capability) to lead Pakistan.
 
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You will also, no doubt, note That NS has called for a new force to tackle terrorism - in other words, a respite for the Talib. Now, I'm no supporter of the PPP or the crooks that run that criminal enterprise, but I am confused as to why BB should be assasinated and Nawaz not even threatened, it's just....curious.

Anway, Talib in Bannu are being softened, as a point of entry into Baitullah land, we should expect to see many more voices being raised agaijnst that upcoming operation - again, you will see the tried and failed idea of "Jirga" and "scholars" -- count on the islamists ramping up information operations, they will try to overwhelm the government by creating even larger numbers of IDP (now that they have seen that the politicians and bureaucrats have done a less than credible job at that effort) and I think you will find at least one media conglomerate concentrate on images of innocent Pakistanis displaced with special emphasis questioning whether the insurgents were "innocent Pakistanis" and try to sap the morale of the citizenry and armed forces.
 
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Saudis in all honesty will be calling us kafirs in their heart because we are killing their so called religious people and see how they have not given a proper aid for IDPS.
 
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{Originally Posted by muse
Niaz, Ejaz, Fundamentalist, Talibswatter


The issue, it seems to me, is not a "if/or" issue, clearly the Talib insurgency wants to intimidate others who may want to stand up and say the talib have little relationship to Islam, however; it seems to me, that provoking sectarian conflict in society is a persistent ambition of the islamists, partciularly now that they are under intense pressure and want to deflect that pressure.}

Agreed - the wahhabi-trained taliban would love to ignite a sectarian conflict with the Shia. Attacks on the shia communities in DI Khan and Parachinar are some recent examples.

At the end of the day, it is not enough to simply wipe out the Taliban. The wahhabi/salafi ideology that inspires the taliban must be neutralized in the mosques and madrassas. The government would do well to take over all saudi/wahhabi funded madrassas and throw out the clerics on the payroll of their saudi masters.
 
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