Blasphemy Law Possible Modifications!

[SorrelVesper]

ROFLMAO! Come keeeeeellllll me right after you keeeeelllll Muse!

And you call yourself civilized. Post reported.

 

[muse]

You are completely wholly entirely unprepared for this conversation -- please do not imagine that you will come here after receiving instruction from the radical online and imagine that you'll be able to sell it here - cause we'll just eat your lunch, from what I have read of what you present and the way in which you present it, you are out of your depth - the best you can do is to say that since you were challenged that am not a Muslim - can you came here to sell your Emirati Shar'iah??

Clue: Divine as in Eternal, not amenable to change -- See, your larger challenge is epistemological, in this law, which you suggest is other than human, you are left with the problem of explaining how it is that the Divine is amenable to change and how it is that the agency of man is required for this change to be effected??

Clue #2: If Ijma (the consensus opinion of scholars can change the substance of the Divine, then you may want refer to the definition

Clue#3:

When there was whats the word for it "qehat saali", everyone was starving to death, he modified the law about 'stealing' just a little. Made it a bit softer for time being.

Absolutely priceless, in your "Divine" law it's was OK to steal a little, priceless -- you are out of your depth and an insult to the subject matter you seek to do justice to.

OR did you mean to say that Omar exercised Ijtihad???

 

[VCheng]

Clues? I don't need no clues! My mind is made up!

 

[muse]

The clues were for the junior chicken hawk - defender of all radicalism, fresh off the.... I don't why it's always so difficult fo rthese people to actually think about what they are saying or writing -- Religion of peace, or I'll kill you, priceless

 

[Ahmad]

what they are saying or writing -- Religion of peace, or I'll kill you, priceless

That is teh biggest contradiction. how can we claim to be peaceful and kill the others if they are not doing/thinking our way, hypocracy!

 

[SorrelVesper]

You are completely wholly entirely unprepared for this conversation -- please do not imagine that you will come here after receiving instruction from the radical online and imagine that you'll be able to sell it here - cause we'll just eat your lunch, from what I have read of what you present and the way in which you present it, you are out of your depth - the best you can do is to say that since you were challenged that am not a Muslim - can you came here to sell your Emirati Shar'iah??

Clue: Divine as in Eternal, not amenable to change -- See, your larger challenge is epistemological, in this law, which you suggest is other than human, you are left with the problem of explaining how it is that the Divine is amenable to change and how it is that the agency of man is required for this change to be effected??

Where I studied, they taught me the meaning of Divine as "God's". Related to God. The religion, in this case. It is not changeable. But if there are times when we are unsure of different laws, there is Ijma to take care of that issue. Ijma accepts one "apparent" solution and makes an agreement on it to make it part of the religion. But it is important to note that Ijma can only be done issues which are not very clear, or which may have weak references.

Clue #2: If Ijma (the consensus opinion of scholars can change the substance of the Divine, then you may want refer to the definition

See above!

Clue#3:

Absolutely priceless, in your "Divine" law it's was OK to steal a little, priceless -- you are out of your depth and an insult to the subject matter you seek to do justice to.

OR did you mean to say that Omar exercised Ijtihad???

Yes. My bad that I didn't mention the word "Ijtihad" specifically. The law didnt allow stealing. Rather, the punishment became a bit softer for that mentioned time. But since Ijtihad is out of question since a long time, there is no way we or anyone can exercise that. But Ijma, yes. Ijma is allowed and can be performed to look at this big issue. I merely pointed out how UAE government is dealing with this huge issue that is turning our country Pakistan upside down.

 

[SorrelVesper]

That is teh biggest contradiction. how can we claim to be peaceful and kill the others if they are not doing/thinking our way, hypocracy!

Not thinking our way is one thing, and bashing the religion is other. We never said there's a death sentence for those who wont revert to Islam. Rather. Stay who you are and whatever you want, just dont insult our religion.

 

[Ahmad]

Not thinking our way is one thing, and bashing the religion is other. We never said there's a death sentence for those who wont revert to Islam. Rather. Stay who you are and whatever you want, just dont insult our religion.

If I am muslim or not, it shouldnt be anybody's bussiness, it is my personall issue and it should remain so. Now, if somebody converts to islam, we cheer, and if somebody leaves islam, we kill him, where is peace, tolerance in it as we claim all the time?

 

[SorrelVesper]

If I am muslim or not, it shouldnt be anybody's bussiness, it is my personall issue and it should remain so. Now, if somebody converts to islam, we cheer, and if somebody leaves islam, we kill him, where is peace, tolerance in it as we claim all the time?

That is not the issue we are discussing today, I guess.

 

[VCheng]

Clues? I don't need no clues! My mind is made up!

The clues were for the junior chicken hawk - defender of all radicalism, fresh off the.... I don't why it's always so difficult fo rthese people to actually think about what they are saying or writing -- Religion of peace, or I'll kill you, priceless

I know Sir. I was just being sarcastically facetious.

 

[Ahmad]

That is not the issue we are discussing today, I guess.

I think it is close to each other, it is quite acceptable to bring this issue as well.

 

[pak-marine]

Sorrelvesper::once in Hazrat Umer's era, when there was whats the word for it "qehat saali", everyone was starving to death, he modified the law about 'stealing' just a little.

do you have a source for this ?

 

[SorrelVesper]

I think it is close to each other, it is quite acceptable to bring this issue as well.

Just know this: Apostasy is also not mentioned in Al Qur'an.

 

[muse]

Sorrel

Epistemology -- Science of knowledge - how do you know, how do you justify what you think you know -- So, does knowledge change through time and space?? And what of our experience of knowledge or rather our mediation of knowledge?? Please don't be so quick to parrot what little you do know, being a person who desires to be a learned person, does not mean that you go around behaving like a Takfiri twit calling Muslims, non-Muslims and being insecure.


Blasphemy is not turning Pakistan upside down, it's the political violence of armed religious parties and terrorists inspired by religion that are turning Pakistan upside down - if the Blasphemy issue was not there, they would pick another issue -- see, what they need, are issues to agitate over and to indulge in political violence over --- what you are seeing is the insurgency, you may or may not realize it but you either are or are being groomed to be, an insurgent -- you and many others like will argue that you are just "religious", but of course you are not being honest - what you are, is on a journey that may lead you to curious places (remember this when you get there, because you will recognize that you never thought that your "passion" would lead you to such a place) and bring harm to you and yours.

With every act of agitation and violence, and the failure of the government to fashion laws and to punish the culprits of such, the government of Pakistan is de-legitimized in the eyes of the population and the world.

Anyway, you take care of yourself - I really do mean that just the way I have written it.

 

[SorrelVesper]

do you have a source for this ?

"It is narrated by Ibn Kathir (rahimullah) in his al-Bidayah w’l-Nihayah (4:99) that the Caliph ‘Umar b. al-Khattab (radhy Allahu ‘anhu) decided not to establish the prescribed punishment (hadd) for theft upon those who were found to have stolen any food during the Year of Famine.

This historical incident is also supported by the statement of ‘Umar (radhy Allahu ‘anhu) himself when he said, “The hand is not severed (in the cases of) taking from a tree and famine.”

This narration is collected by al-Sa‘di (the student of Imam Ahmed and the teacher of al-Tirmidhi, Abu Dawud et al, d.256h) in his Jami‘, as well as Imam al-Bukhari in mu‘allaq form in al-Tarikh al-Kabir (3:4). It is difficult to establish anything objectionable about the narrators of this report and thus remains acceptable insha’Allah.