BJP State unit faces flak for ‘saffronising’ Tamil poet-saint Thiruvalluvar

[Imran Khan]

look good to me RSS/BJP terrorists making a good job

 

[Nityam]

Thief evolved from the root word “Thirudu-திருடு” - steal (thiru + adu)

திருடன - Thirudan - its Thirudan not Thiridan ,

mal may refer to massage in malayam but not to Tamil, unless you can prove otherwise.

When did Thiru now turn into "wealth" ? Now "Thirumal" as per your own definition must mean Wealth that grows

dont confuse Tamil with Malayalam,

its pathi பதி (abode) not paadhi (half) பாதி , note the difference

a song to help get the naunces of Tamil - pathi and paadhi correct

oru paadhi kadhavu neeyadi (half the door is you)

Paadhi means half in both Tamil and Malayalam

Pathi means Lord / Master in Tamil too. E.g. Ganapathi. (Lord of the masses)

Pathi (Tamil: பதி - "The place where God is") is the name of the primary centres of congregational worship for the South Indian religious system of Ayyavazhi, having a relatively large structure like that of a temple. They are seven in number.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pathi

This is irrelevant when discussing Tirupati since NO tamil literature talks about "Thirupati" or Tirupathi. They only mmention Tirumalai.

Take it up with the scholars

THE WORD Himalaya is derived from two Sanskrit words,- " Hi-ma,' snow, and " a-la-ya," abode ; and it means The Abode of Snow

https://www.himalayanclub.org/hj/01/12/the-word-himalaya/

There is nothing to take up. Alaya does mean abode in sanskrit the same way Malay means Mountain.

Malaya is referred to as a south Indian Mountain in multiple Sanskrit scriptures and texts. In Mahabharata and in Natya Sastra, in Kathasaritsagara.

Even in Ayurveda Malaya refers to Medical mountain in south India.

Thirumal grows as a Malayalee you should know vamana avatar

LOL. So now Tirumal is god that grows ?

its anna not annam , Thiruvanamalai, is pilgrimage site focussed around the mountain, conisdered as a manifestation of Siva. This is as per the sthala purana. It has nothing to do with annam - food. T

Two major themes are interwoven: the first is the greatness of the Arunachala sthala, and the story of how the mountain Arunachala first manifested as a clossal of fire whose top and bottom could not be found, to settle a quarrel between Brahma and Vishnu

https://www.sriramanamaharshi.org/resource_centre/audio/arunachala-puranam/

You mention "Arunachala" which is Aruna+anchala, both of which is sanskrit again. Sthala again is from Sanskrit, so is Purana a Sanskrit word.

So why is Sthala Purana in Tamil ?

Pavai Genre

THIRUPPAVAI (Pavai Genre) belongs to the Pavai genre of songs, a unique Tamil tradition sung in the context of the Pavai vow observed throughout the month of Margazhi, originally by unmarried girls praying to the Pavai goddess (related to Goddess Parvathy) for a blissful married life. Sri Vaishnavas sing these stanzas every day of the year in the temple as well as in their homes. This practice assumes special significance during Margazhi: each day of this month gets its name from one of the thirty verses. There are references to this vow in the late-Sangam Era Tamil musical anthology Paripadal.

The worship of Goddess Pavai was very common in Tamil Nadu since ancient times. The worship was done by unmarried girls. They all used to take bath in the rivers daily early in the dawn, in the month of Margazhi (December-January) and worshiped the Goddess by dance and music, observing very strict vrata (penance or fast or nonbu) during the day. This it was believed would get them good husbands and would lead to a very happy married life.

https://ennapadambhagavati.blogspot.com/2011/01/glory-of-margazhi-and-rendering-of.html

Thirupavai Stanza 1

So that we bathe and worship Our Goddess Pavai,
In a way that the whole world sings about.

https://www.indiadivine.org/thiruppavai-in-english/

Thiruvampavai (Tamil Saivite tradition)

The ancient Tamil Nadu saw two important Bhakthi movements , which most probably preceded the philosophical movements of Adi Sankara and Saint Ramanuja. The sentinels (sages) of Bhakthi movement worshipping Lord Shiva were called Nayanmars and those worshipping Lord Vishnu were called Azhwars. History records the story of 63 Nayanmars and their story is chronicled in a book called “Periya puranam (Big epic)” written by Chekizhar who was an eminent poet of those times.

Thiruvempavai is a part of Thiruvasagam and was composed in the temple town of Thiruvannamalai during the month of Margazhi(December-january) when the temple town was celebrating the Pavai Nombu. This is a penance observed by unmarried girls of those times to get good husbands. The maids all wake up early , wake each other up and with song and dance go to the ponds and streams for bathing and then worship Pavai (woman goddess) and request her to bless them with suitable husbands. These songs are sung by them during the festival on 10 days preceding the Thiruadhirai Nolumbu. The fact that during the coronation of the Kings of Thailand these are sung shows the importance people of those times attached to this song. The Tamil used was the ancient Tamil and though many words used during those times are common even today, the meanings of these are not that obvious. Each verse translated is preceded by the first few words of the Thiruvempavai verse to help in easy identification.

http://www.hindupedia.com/en/Thiruvembavai

Perhaps you can elaborate more on Thirumurugan empavai, thank you

Thirupavai is sung during the month observing the goddess because it was sung by Andal for achieving her dream husband Krishna.

It is not a song to the goddess, it is a song to Vishnu / Krishna.

Your claim would have been valid if Thirupavai was a song of the goddess, praising the goddess pavai. Its not.

Fak off with your sanskrit sh!t

No.

 

[manlion]

When did Thiru now turn into "wealth" ? Now "Thirumal" as per your own definition must mean Wealth that grows

just like Sri in Sankrit denotes wealth, auspicious , divine, Lakshmi who is the embodiment of all these, Tamil thiru is equivalent to Sri. Most likely Aryan brahmins copied sri from Tamil Thiru.

mal is mountain, maal is black (note the spelling)

Malai - மலை = mountain
Thirumaal - திருமால் = The black god

Paadhi means half in both Tamil and Malayalam

Pathi means Lord / Master in Tamil too. E.g. Ganapathi. (Lord of the masses)

Dont confuse Tamil with Malayalam i.e Mani pravalam Tamil (Tamil mix Sanskrit).

In Tamil pathi is abode (not lord or husband). The Ayyavazhi sect have 5 pathis (abodes) in Tamilnadu, their HQ is called Thoppu pathi, 4 others are Mutta pathi, Poo pathi , Ambala pathi, Tamaraikulam pathi

In Tamil ganapathi is Pillaiyar , ayngaran, except for Hindus, brahmanised Tamils, Tambrahmins, theres no need for Tamil to use Sanskrit names for their gods or temples.

This is irrelevant when discussing Tirupati since NO tamil literature talks about "Thirupati" or Tirupathi. They only mmention Tirumalai.

There is nothing to take up. Alaya does mean abode in sanskrit the same way Malay means Mountain.

In Himalaya's context - alaya refers to abode,

Hima means snow.
Aalaya means Abode
so Himalaya means the abode of snow.

https://www.answers.com/Q/What_does_himalaya_mean_in_sanskrit

Malaya is referred to as a south Indian Mountain in multiple Sanskrit scriptures and texts. In Mahabharata and in Natya Sastra, in Kathasaritsagara.

Even in Ayurveda Malaya refers to Medical mountain in south India.

For detail answer , refer to link below

Are the Tamil word ‘malai’ (mountain) and Sanskrit ‘malaya’ connected with each other?

https://www.answers.com/Q/What_does_himalaya_mean_in_sanskrit

LOL. So now Tirumal is god that grows ?

Can you discern sarcasm ? Its Thirumaal (black) not Thirumal (grow)

You mention "Arunachala" which is Aruna+anchala, both of which is sanskrit again. Sthala again is from Sanskrit, so is Purana a Sanskrit word.

So why is Sthala Purana in Tamil ?

I didn't mention Arunachala, sthala purana etc, the source was from Ramana Maharishi's website. The purpose is to highlight the history of Thiruvanamali in your own Sanskrit terms.

Thiruvanamali , was the place where Siva manifested in the form of Pillar of fire, resembling a mountain of fire. This was to settle the dispute between Brahma and Vishnu, as to who was the superior god. It has nothing to do with annam (food) or vanam (forest).

Thirupavai is sung during the month observing the goddess because it was sung by Andal for achieving her dream husband Krishna.

It is not a song to the goddess, it is a song to Vishnu / Krishna.

Your claim would have been valid if Thirupavai was a song of the goddess, praising the goddess pavai. Its not.

No.

Her most important poetic work is Thiruppavai. This extols the virtues of Lord Krishna and requests him for help and guidance in the worship of Goddess Pavai. The worship of this Goddess was very common in Tamil Nadu since ancient times. The worship was done by unmarried girls. They all used to take bath in the rivers daily early in the dawn, in the month of Margazhi (December-January) and worship the goddess by dance and music and observe very strict penance during the day. This it was believed would get them good husbands and would lead to a very happy married life. On each day one of the hymns are being sung during this month even today.

https://www.indiadivine.org/thiruppavai-in-english/

1st 5 stanzas from Tirupavai is about the rituals Andal observed in the worship of goddess Pavai based foster father Periya alvar's guidance.

 

[Nityam]

just like Sri in Sankrit denotes wealth, auspicious , divine, Lakshmi who is the embodiment of all these, Tamil thiru is equivalent to Sri. Most likely Aryan brahmins copied sri from Tamil Thiru.

Both Thiru and Sri is added before a name to show respect.

There is nothing to show it was copied from Tamil.

If Tamil Nadu has the town of "Thirupur", North India has its equivalent of "Tarapur". Same difference.

If North India has "Mathura", TN has "Madurai". The south Indian version, same difference.

mal is mountain, maal is black (note the spelling)

Malai - மலை = mountain
Thirumaal - திருமால் = The black god

YOU are the one who first claimed "mal" is grow. ........ Thirumaal was always "black god".

Dont confuse Tamil with Malayalam i.e Mani pravalam Tamil (Tamil mix Sanskrit).

Another rubbish.

Malayalam would literally mean Malay+Alam or marshy or coastal land beyond the Mountain. (nilgiri)

In Tamil pathi is abode (not lord or husband). The Ayyavazhi sect have 5 pathis (abodes) in Tamilnadu, their HQ is called Thoppu pathi, 4 others are Mutta pathi, Poo pathi , Ambala pathi, Tamaraikulam pathi

In Tamil ganapathi is Pillaiyar , ayngaran, except for Hindus, brahmanised Tamils, Tambrahmins, theres no need for Tamil to use Sanskrit names for their gods or temples.

The "Pathi" in Ganapathi is very different from the "Pathi" in Pancha Pathi. Though the "Pathi" in pancha Pathi has come from the place where the lord sits.

In Himalaya's context - alaya refers to abode,

https://www.answers.com/Q/What_does_himalaya_mean_in_sanskrit

No one has denied that.

For detail answer , refer to link below

Are the Tamil word ‘malai’ (mountain) and Sanskrit ‘malaya’ connected with each other?

https://www.answers.com/Q/What_does_himalaya_mean_in_sanskrit

Let me repeat, South Indian Malai is mentioned multiple times in Sanskrit texts ranging from Mahabharata to Ayurveda to Kathasaritsagara.

It always referred to Mountains. So himalaya is not the only reference for this.

I didn't mention Arunachala, sthala purana etc, the source was from Ramana Maharishi's website. The purpose is to highlight the history of Thiruvanamali in your own Sanskrit terms.

Thiruvanamali , was the place where Siva manifested in the form of Pillar of fire, resembling a mountain of fire. This was to settle the dispute between Brahma and Vishnu, as to who was the superior god. It has nothing to do with annam (food) or vanam (forest).

Which is the original Tamil text that mention the Pillar of fire ?

It comes from the Sanskrit Atharvaveda and from the Shiva Puran.

and No, it did not occur on earth. It happened BEFORE there was an earth. In the beginning of time.

It happened in the 1st Kalpa. This is the 52nd Kalpa. Each kalpa being 4.2 Billion Years. Get it ?

NOTHING to do with Thiruvanamalai which as I mentioned is a name that consists of 3 sanskrit words.

Her most important poetic work is Thiruppavai. This extols the virtues of Lord Krishna and requests him for help and guidance in the worship of Goddess Pavai. The worship of this Goddess was very common in Tamil Nadu since ancient times. The worship was done by unmarried girls. They all used to take bath in the rivers daily early in the dawn, in the month of Margazhi (December-January) and worship the goddess by dance and music and observe very strict penance during the day. This it was believed would get them good husbands and would lead to a very happy married life. On each day one of the hymns are being sung during this month even today.

https://www.indiadivine.org/thiruppavai-in-english/

1st 5 stanzas from Tirupavai is about the rituals Andal observed in the worship goddess Pavai. This was based on the advice given by her foster father Periya Alvar

This is the problem with relying on random blogs and links without knowing the original context.

Andal does not worships the goddess any more than Meera Bai worshiped the goddess.

It literally starts with ,

Eraarntha kaNNi yacOthai iLaNY ciNGkam
beautiful eyed Yasodha's little lion (child) (Krishna)

kaarm Enic ceNG kaN kathir mathiyam pOl mukaththaan
Dark skinned (with) beautiful eyes (shining like the) sun (with a) moon like face

naaraayaNanE namakkE paRai tharuvaan
Lord Narayana himself will give blessings

paarOr pukazhap patinthu
to the people of the world who praise


And it ends with,

ceNGkaN thirumukaththuc celvath thirumaal aal
red eyes beautiful face glorious God because of HIM

eNGkum thiruvaruL peRRu inpuRuvar empaavaay
(they will get) his grace anywhere they go and will enjoy bliss, says Andal paavai.


There is literally NOTHING about the goddess in the entire prayer. Its all about Krishna, Madhava, Narayana and Keshava.

 

[Trichy]

குறள் 617:
மடியுளாள் மாமுகடி என்ப மடியிலான்
தாளுளான் தாமரையி னாள்.


மு.வரதராசன் விளக்கம்:
ஒருவனுடைய சோம்பலில் கரிய மூதேவி வாழ்கின்றாள், சோம்பல் இல்லாதவனுடைய முயற்சியிலே திருமகள் வாழ்கின்றாள்.


சாலமன் பாப்பையா விளக்கம்:
சோம்பி இருப்பவனிடம் மூதேவி தங்குவான். சோம்பாதவனின் முயற்சியில் திருமகள் தங்குவாள் என்பர்.


சிவயோகி சிவக்குமார் விளக்கம்:
முயற்சி அற்றவர் இடத்தில் மூதேவி இருக்கிறாள். முயற்சி உள்ளவரிடம் கலைமகள் தங்குகிறாள். ஆர்வமற்றவருக்கு மூளை செல்கள் பலமற்று திறமைகள் குறைகிறது. ஆகவே அதை மூதேவி (முடக்கப்பட்ட மூளை) என்றும். ஆர்வமுடன் செயல்பட மூளை செல்கள் மேலும் விரிகிறது. எனவே ஆயிரம் தாமரை மலரில் ஆற்றல் வளர்கிறது.

 

[manlion]

Both Thiru and Sri is added before a name to show respect.

There is nothing to show it was copied from Tamil.

If Tamil Nadu has the town of "Thirupur", North India has its equivalent of "Tarapur". Same difference.

If North India has "Mathura", TN has "Madurai". The south Indian version, same difference.

Apart from speculation you have not proven Thiru is derived from sri.

Thirupur is not Tarapur, and pur is derived from Dravidian - Tamil/kannada/Sumerian uru

YOU are the one who first claimed "mal" is grow. ........ Thirumaal was always "black god".

So ???? I said , can apply Thirumal too - as Thirumaal grew in his vanama avatar !

Another rubbish.

Malayalam would literally mean Malay+Alam or marshy or coastal land beyond the Mountain. (nilgiri)

Early composers of manipravalam literature, having realized that certain Sanskrit sounds could not be represented by the available letters in Tamil, decided to merge the two languages and thus, Malayalam as a language was born. However, the current form of Malayalam took shape centuries later.

https://www.musicaloud.com/2011/05/31/understanding-manipravalam/

no Malayalee will accept the bitter bill - Malayalam is an off shoot of Tamil

Most late sangam Tamil works were by Mallus of Chera Nadu (Kerala)

Ilango Adigal (Tamil: இளங்கோ அடிகள்) was a Tamil poet and a Jain monk, who was instrumental in the creation of Silappathikaram, one of the five great epics of Tamil Literature. Prince Ilango was the brother of Chera king Cheran Chenguttuvan (in modern day Kerala)

https://www.poemhunter.com/ilango-adigal/

The "Pathi" in Ganapathi is very different from the "Pathi" in Pancha Pathi. Though the "Pathi" in pancha Pathi has come from the place where the lord sits.

No one has denied that.

in the case of Thirupathi the "lord"doesn't sit but stand , using your logic it should be called his standing abode

The problem is you cant relinquih your Sanskrit bias, seeing every Tamil words root in Sanskrit

As far as Tamil is concern pathi refers to an abode. If Sanskrit followers refer to it as lord that is their prerogative.

Let me repeat, South Indian Malai is mentioned multiple times in Sanskrit texts ranging from Mahabharata to Ayurveda to Kathasaritsagara.

It always referred to Mountains. So himalaya is not the only reference for this.

Malai is Tamil, if Sanskrit uses it, Tamil has no issue as Tamil has loaned many words to Sanskrit

Which is the original Tamil text that mention the Pillar of fire ?

It comes from the Sanskrit Atharvaveda and from the Shiva Puran.

and No, it did not occur on earth. It happened BEFORE there was an earth. In the beginning of time.

It happened in the 1st Kalpa. This is the 52nd Kalpa. Each kalpa being 4.2 Billion Years. Get it ?

NOTHING to do with Thiruvanamalai which as I mentioned is a name that consists of 3 sanskrit words.

You should not be saying it to me but to Ramana Maharishi and other Hindu sources. who are you to question their authority ?

Then Markandeya, son of Mrkandu, came forward and begged the Lord to narrate to them all, how the Arunachala Hill came to be formed.

"Listen. There is a place on earth which grants Deliverance to any created being, moving or unmoving, by the mere remembrance of its sacred Name. It has innumerable names. Some of these are: Gowri Nagara, Tejo Nagara, Arunachala, Sivaloka Nagara, Mukti Nagara, Jnana Nagara, Sthaleswara (the Supreme among sacred spots), Suddha Nagara, Dakshina Kailasa (Southern Kailasa), Sonagiri and so on. Being the Spiritual Centre of Creation it draws the gods, sages and Tapasvins, in short anyone who thinks of it, to itself. There is a Hill there which stands in Krita Yuga as a Hill of Fire, in Treta as one of Diamond, in Dvapara as a Golden Hill and in Kali Yuga as a Hill of Stone. When even Vishnu as a boar and Brahma as a swan had to abandon their long-drawn search to find its beginning and end, can we hope to find a Hill to equal Arunachala? The Sun, thirsting to sip from the springs on this Hill, the water of which even the celestial Ganges considers holy directs his chariot-horses to leap over Arunachala daily!

http://arunachalasamudra.org/arunachalapuranam.html

The story of the Sacred tiruvannamalai mountain from the ancient times tells us that a quarrel between the Lord Vishnu and Lord Brahma depicts the origin of the mountain. Both the creator and preserver of this universe were fighting to claim who is powerful among them. This went on for year and years. The sage Narada also convinced them that neither of the two were powerful nor Supreme. Then, the Lord Shiva made up his mind to show the truth, who is actual Supreme among two.

To prove this he took the form of fire which was very big and immense. This fire stood in front of the two and a voice was heard from the fire, which was Lord Shiva himself and told that "Among you two who will first approach the top and bottom of this dazzling fire will be said to be the most powerful forever." Then Brahma, changed himself as a swan and flew up to the sky to reach the top of the Fire and kept flying for hundreds and hundreds of years. But could not reach the top on the other side, Lord Vishnu changed himself as a boar and starting digging down the Earth to find the bottom.

Who also did the same thing over couple of years and could not ever find the bottom. Then both of them realized that Lord Shiva, he who is endless without the start nor an end was only the "Superior" among both of them. Their fight had got a conclusion.

They came back to Earth and bowed in front of the Shiva, who was in the form of dazzling form of fire and requested to stay in the same form on this Earth and bless the devotees Who is He the actual meaning for the power of creation nor preservation, Lord Shiva agreed to stay in the same form and transformed himself as a mountain. From then, every Karthikai Deepam Festival the column of dense fire comes to the sight on the top of mountain. At Thiruvannamalai this is done on the 10th day of this Festival Karthikai Deepam.

http://tiruvannamalai.co.in/history.html

One more link on Thiruvanamali history, which cant copy and paste

https://gotirupati.com/thiruvannamalai/

This is the problem with relying on random blogs and links without knowing the original context.

Andal does not worships the goddess any more than Meera Bai worshiped the goddess.

It literally starts with ,

Eraarntha kaNNi yacOthai iLaNY ciNGkam
beautiful eyed Yasodha's little lion (child) (Krishna)

kaarm Enic ceNG kaN kathir mathiyam pOl mukaththaan
Dark skinned (with) beautiful eyes (shining like the) sun (with a) moon like face

naaraayaNanE namakkE paRai tharuvaan
Lord Narayana himself will give blessings

paarOr pukazhap patinthu
to the people of the world who praise


And it ends with,

ceNGkaN thirumukaththuc celvath thirumaal aal
red eyes beautiful face glorious God because of HIM

eNGkum thiruvaruL peRRu inpuRuvar empaavaay
(they will get) his grace anywhere they go and will enjoy bliss, says Andal paavai.


There is literally NOTHING about the goddess in the entire prayer. Its all about Krishna, Madhava, Narayana and Keshava.

Pavai in her Pasuram is reference to the goddess, you missed the first few stanzas which describes the dos and don'ts of Pavai (Goddess) nombu (fast)

Pasuram 2 (Stanza)

vaiyaththu vaazhveerkaaL! naamum nam paavai kku
cheyyum kirisaikaL kELiirO, paaRkataluL
paiyath thuyindra paramanati paati

Let us all live and prosper in the world! Hear (and watch) us do the ritual deeds for the Damsel (Deity). We are fortunate to live a good life on this earth. Let us not forget the feet of the Supreme Being in Yoga Nidra who lives in the Milk Ocean and at whose feet we shower songs of praise

Neyy unnom paal unnom naatkale neeradi
Maiyittezhudom malar ittu naam mudiyom
Seyyadana seyyom theekkuralai sendrodhom
Iyamum pichaiyum aandanaiyum kai kaatti
Uyyumarenni ugandhelor empavai

We won't savor ghee; we won't drink milk; we will take a bath early in the morning; we won't use the eyeliners; we won't tie and wear flowers on our hair; we won't do the forbidden acts; we won't go around and utter (gossip) evil words; we will hand out (charity) to the needy, the poor, and the ascetics. We will think and be glad of our redemption. Let us perform the Pavai Nombu

https://www.bhagavadgitausa.com/ANDALS_TIRUPPAVAI.htm

 

[Nityam]

Apart from speculation you have not proven Thiru is derived from sri.

Thirupur is not Tarapur, and pur is derived from Dravidian - Tamil/kannada/Sumerian uru

Making Rediculous assertions and vague comic links only makes you a good troll.

Anyone with even a basic Idea of India, Hinduism and Sanskrit and Tamil will understand and see that "puram" is the tamil version of "Pur", the same way "Rama/Raman" is the tamil version of "Ram".

Here is a list of co-relating names of cities , towns and villages from North and south India and all of them are real and exist.

1. Rampur vs Ramapuram
2. Ranipur vs Ranipuram
3. Banapur vs Banapuram
4. Allapur vs Allapuram
5. Saidapur vs Saidapuram
6. Nandapur vs Nandapuram
7. Nadapur vs Nadapuram
8. Devipur vs Devipuram
9. Ayyapur vs Ayyapuram
10. Sayapur vs Sayapuram
11. Raipur vs Rayapuram
12. Siripur vs Siripuram
13. Krishnapur vs Krishnapuram
14. Balapur vs Balapuram
15. Even "Singapor" vs Singapur vs Singapuram

This is just 15 out of HUNDREDS. I just ran out of patience by writing just these.

You can spin Egyptian or chinese link to them, but even someone with basic commonsense can see though your desperate lies.

https://www.musicaloud.com/2011/05/31/understanding-manipravalam/

no Malayalee will accept the bitter bill - Malayalam is an off shoot of Tamil

Most late sangam Tamil works were by Mallus of Chera Nadu (Kerala)

Malayalam is a distinct language with links to both Tamil and Sanskrit. It has more links to sanskrit than Tamil. Its 60% sanskrit.

Malayalam could just as easily be "Mala+Alayam" in sanskrit. Home beyond the mountain. The same "Alaya" you found in Himalaya or Himalayam as called in malayalam.

https://www.poemhunter.com/ilango-adigal/

in the case of Thirupathi the "lord"doesn't sit but stand , using your logic it should be called his standing abode

The problem is you cant relinquih your Sanskrit bias, seeing every Tamil words root in Sanskrit

As far as Tamil is concern pathi refers to an abode. If Sanskrit followers refer to it as lord that is their prerogative.

God is not a man to "sit" or "stand'. I said "sit" only as a place where he is consecrated.

I have knowledge of both Sanskit and Tamil so I can see links and commonality that others do not see because they know either one of the language or neither.

The oldest book of Kerala recounting its history and Lineage from Parasurama is "Keralapathi". Here too "Pathi" means master history of kerala.

Malai is Tamil, if Sanskrit uses it, Tamil has no issue as Tamil has loaned many words to Sanskrit

I have never denied "Malai" is tamil, only its also mentioned in sanskrit. But since the oldest reference in sanskrit is the Mahabharata which is 5000 years old, it is for you to show an older origin.

You should not be saying it to me but to Ramana Maharishi and other Hindu sources. who are you to question their authority ?

Then Markandeya, son of Mrkandu, came forward and begged the Lord to narrate to them all, how the Arunachala Hill came to be formed.

"Listen. There is a place on earth which grants Deliverance to any created being, moving or unmoving, by the mere remembrance of its sacred Name. It has innumerable names. Some of these are: Gowri Nagara, Tejo Nagara, Arunachala, Sivaloka Nagara, Mukti Nagara, Jnana Nagara, Sthaleswara (the Supreme among sacred spots), Suddha Nagara, Dakshina Kailasa (Southern Kailasa), Sonagiri and so on. Being the Spiritual Centre of Creation it draws the gods, sages and Tapasvins, in short anyone who thinks of it, to itself. There is a Hill there which stands in Krita Yuga as a Hill of Fire, in Treta as one of Diamond, in Dvapara as a Golden Hill and in Kali Yuga as a Hill of Stone. When even Vishnu as a boar and Brahma as a swan had to abandon their long-drawn search to find its beginning and end, can we hope to find a Hill to equal Arunachala? The Sun, thirsting to sip from the springs on this Hill, the water of which even the celestial Ganges considers holy directs his chariot-horses to leap over Arunachala daily!

http://arunachalasamudra.org/arunachalapuranam.html

Ramana Maharishi never gave out such stories.

The little known "ARunachala puran" you mention and quote is only 300 years old. And even in that it only mentions a hill of fire and that too in KritaYuga, which could very well mean anything from a volcano to a hill were yagnas were conducted.

The story of the Sacred tiruvannamalai mountain from the ancient times tells us that a quarrel between the Lord Vishnu and Lord Brahma depicts the origin of the mountain. Both the creator and preserver of this universe were fighting to claim who is powerful among them. This went on for year and years. The sage Narada also convinced them that neither of the two were powerful nor Supreme. Then, the Lord Shiva made up his mind to show the truth, who is actual Supreme among two.

To prove this he took the form of fire which was very big and immense. This fire stood in front of the two and a voice was heard from the fire, which was Lord Shiva himself and told that "Among you two who will first approach the top and bottom of this dazzling fire will be said to be the most powerful forever." Then Brahma, changed himself as a swan and flew up to the sky to reach the top of the Fire and kept flying for hundreds and hundreds of years. But could not reach the top on the other side, Lord Vishnu changed himself as a boar and starting digging down the Earth to find the bottom.

Who also did the same thing over couple of years and could not ever find the bottom. Then both of them realized that Lord Shiva, he who is endless without the start nor an end was only the "Superior" among both of them. Their fight had got a conclusion.

They came back to Earth and bowed in front of the Shiva, who was in the form of dazzling form of fire and requested to stay in the same form on this Earth and bless the devotees Who is He the actual meaning for the power of creation nor preservation, Lord Shiva agreed to stay in the same form and transformed himself as a mountain. From then, every Karthikai Deepam Festival the column of dense fire comes to the sight on the top of mountain. At Thiruvannamalai this is done on the 10th day of this Festival Karthikai Deepam.

http://tiruvannamalai.co.in/history.html

One more link on Thiruvanamali history, which cant copy and paste

https://gotirupati.com/thiruvannamalai/

I cannot go visit any random link that put out fantastic stories. Give me ORIGINAL SOURCE or don't bother.

Pavai in her Pasuram is reference to the goddess, you missed the first few stanzas which describes the dos and don'ts of Pavai (Goddess) nombu (fast)

Pasuram 2 (Stanza)

vaiyaththu vaazhveerkaaL! naamum nam paavai kku
cheyyum kirisaikaL kELiirO, paaRkataluL
paiyath thuyindra paramanati paati

Let us all live and prosper in the world! Hear (and watch) us do the ritual deeds for the Damsel (Deity). We are fortunate to live a good life on this earth. Let us not forget the feet of the Supreme Being in Yoga Nidra who lives in the Milk Ocean and at whose feet we shower songs of praise

Neyy unnom paal unnom naatkale neeradi
Maiyittezhudom malar ittu naam mudiyom
Seyyadana seyyom theekkuralai sendrodhom
Iyamum pichaiyum aandanaiyum kai kaatti
Uyyumarenni ugandhelor empavai

We won't savor ghee; we won't drink milk; we will take a bath early in the morning; we won't use the eyeliners; we won't tie and wear flowers on our hair; we won't do the forbidden acts; we won't go around and utter (gossip) evil words; we will hand out (charity) to the needy, the poor, and the ascetics. We will think and be glad of our redemption. Let us perform the Pavai Nombu

https://www.bhagavadgitausa.com/ANDALS_TIRUPPAVAI.htm

In the stanza quoted above Andal is tell the girls who are going to observe this ritual what to do.

The "nam paavai kku" is not the goddess, but the girls who are going to perform the rituals.

It even mentions Vishnu as the peak of Yoga and one who is spread acorss the entire milky way. (ocean of milk)

 

[manlion]

Making Rediculous assertions and vague comic links only makes you a good troll.

Anyone with even a basic Idea of India, Hinduism and Sanskrit and Tamil will understand and see that "puram" is the tamil version of "Pur", the same way "Rama/Raman" is the tamil version of "Ram".

Here is a list of co-relating names of cities , towns and villages from North and south India and all of them are real and exist.

1. Rampur vs Ramapuram
2. Ranipur vs Ranipuram
3. Banapur vs Banapuram
4. Allapur vs Allapuram
5. Saidapur vs Saidapuram
6. Nandapur vs Nandapuram
7. Nadapur vs Nadapuram
8. Devipur vs Devipuram
9. Ayyapur vs Ayyapuram
10. Sayapur vs Sayapuram
11. Raipur vs Rayapuram
12. Siripur vs Siripuram
13. Krishnapur vs Krishnapuram
14. Balapur vs Balapuram
15. Even "Singapor" vs Singapur vs Singapuram

co relating name of places proves nothing, please provide academic evidence to support your case i.e Tamil puram is derived from Sanskrit

This is just 15 out of HUNDREDS. I just ran out of patience by writing just these.

You can spin Egyptian or chinese link to them, but even someone with basic commonsense can see though your desperate lies.

Egyptian and Sumerian languages are older than Sanskrit , Tamil ur (town) which later became pur is derived from Sumer not Sanskrit.

Dravidian>ancient sumer-tamil>Indo-European

https://tartariatablets.com/2018/12/03/dravidianancient-sumer-tamilindo-european/

Today's Sumerian word is "uru", which means "city" or "town".

https://sumerianwotd.livejournal.com/15426.html

Malayalam is a distinct language with links to both Tamil and Sanskrit. It has more links to sanskrit than Tamil. Its 60% sanskrit.

Malayalam could just as easily be "Mala+Alayam" in sanskrit. Home beyond the mountain. The same "Alaya" you found in Himalaya or Himalayam as called in malayalam.

God is not a man to "sit" or "stand'. I said "sit" only as a place where he is consecrated.

I have knowledge of both Sanskit and Tamil so I can see links and commonality that others do not see because they know either one of the language or neither.

The oldest book of Kerala recounting its history and Lineage from Parasurama is "Keralapathi". Here too "Pathi" means master history of kerala.

Did I dwell into Malayalam etymology ?

My reference to Malayalam, was to highlight your error in construing Tamil words through your Malayalam perspective

what I wrote in post #51

Early composers of manipravalam literature, having realized that certain Sanskrit sounds could not be represented by the available letters in Tamil, decided to merge the two languages and thus, Malayalam as a language was born. However, the current form of Malayalam took shape centuries later.

https://www.musicaloud.com/2011/05/31/understanding-manipravalam/

God is not a man to "sit" or "stand'. I said "sit" only as a place where he is consecrated.

Hindu god can be in 3 positions
1) standing as in Thirupathi
2) sitting as in Ponbethi Perumaal temple
3) reclining as in Thiruvarangam

I have knowledge of both Sanskit and Tamil so I can see links and commonality that others do not see because they know either one of the language or neither.

The oldest book of Kerala recounting its history and Lineage from Parasurama is "Keralapathi". Here too "Pathi" means master history of kerala.

irrelevant knowledge redundant to Tamil . Dont keep confusing Kerala Sanskrit pathi (lord) with Tamil pathi (abode) ,

I have never denied "Malai" is tamil, only its also mentioned in sanskrit. But since the oldest reference in sanskrit is the Mahabharata which is 5000 years old, it is for you to show an older origin.

Can you quote the verse from MB so that I can counter verify whether malaya refers to a region i.e present Kerala ad Tamilnadu or mountain

Ramana Maharishi never gave out such stories.

The little known "ARunachala puran" you mention and quote is only 300 years old. And even in that it only mentions a hill of fire and that too in KritaYuga, which could very well mean anything from a volcano to a hill were yagnas were conducted.

if you dispute, take it up with Ramana Maharishi ashram in Thiruvanmalai and the other sources that I provided.

I cannot go visit any random link that put out fantastic stories. Give me ORIGINAL SOURCE or don't bother.

I gave you the opening, do your own homework. If you were knowledgeable in puranas and in sthala puranas , you wont be posing this question to me

In the stanza quoted above Andal is tell the girls who are going to observe this ritual what to do.

The "nam paavai kku" is not the goddess, but the girls who are going to perform the rituals.

It even mentions Vishnu as the peak of Yoga and one who is spread acorss the entire milky way. (ocean of milk)

refer to my post #32 , below

Pavai in Tamil refers to lady/girl not Sanskrit pavan (pure). All the 30 stanzas in Tirupavai ends with em-pavai (my girls) hence it got its name Tiru-pavai

The above is 1 interpretation to Thirupavai, another is it refers to Goddess pavai nombu, both are not wrong but your interpretation pavai as pure is wrong

Discourse by His Holiness Srimad Andavan (Sri Vaishavite pontiff)

Soodikkodutha sudar kodiyae tholpavai
paadi aruLavalla palvaLayai
naadi nee Venkadavarrku yennai vidhi enravimmarram
naam kadavaa vannamae nalgu

Translation

Oh Goda- the one who offered Him the flowers adorned by yourself first! You
are like a glittering creeping plant with an array of many beautiful bangles
on your hands! You had undertaken the ancient Vratham "paavai nonbu". You
had asked Manmadan, the god of love to join you in unision with Lord
Venkatesan of the seven hills. You should bless us all to not transgress
your great resolve and bless us to be chosen to offer services for Him.

Purport

Uyyakondar refers the "Paavai nonbu" undertaken by Andal as "tholpavai" ie
Ancient Vratam. The reason for this is because, Paavai Nonbu has been
referred as a very holy vratham, in many ancient scriptures like Bhagavatham
and in the Vaishnava kaandam of Skanda puranam. Andal in the first verse of
Naachiyar Thirumozhi "Thai oru thingalum tharai viLakki....Venkatavarku
yennai vidhikkirriyae" seeks Manmadan, the God of love to join her with
Thiruvenkatamudayan, the Lord of seven hills. Uyyakkondar seeks Andal to
bless us with the strength to not transgress her great resolve by favouring
us in similar way to serve none other than Sriman Narayana.

https://ramanuja.org/sri/BhaktiListArchives/Article?p=feb2000/0062.html

Significance of Pavai Nonbu

The Paavai Nombu Andal undertakes with her companions is a unique yagna not only in terms of austere practices but also in its purpose, pointed out Sri P.T. Seshadri in a discourse. It is solely for the welfare of the world and for attaining the Lord who is the highest Purushartha unlike certain yagnas that are performed for specific material gains such as the Aswamedha for unrivalled victory or the Nikumbala for destruction of enemies. Moreover, many of the ideals such as being righteous and ethical, leading life in a selfless manner, practicing ahimsa, doing every action as a sacrifice, etc, are what Andal indicates as the very essence of upholding the Paavai Nombu.

https://www.thehindu.com/society/faith/Significance-of-Paavai-Nombu/article16947610.ece

I have quoted Sri vaishnava sources to show pavai in Thirupavai refers to pavai nonbu, you are yet to authenticate your claim - pavai in Thiru pavai refers to Sanskrit pavan ("pure")

 

[Hindustani78]

Making Rediculous assertions and vague comic links only makes you a good troll.

Anyone with even a basic Idea of India, Hinduism and Sanskrit and Tamil will understand and see that "puram" is the tamil version of "Pur", the same way "Rama/Raman" is the tamil version of "Ram".

Here is a list of co-relating names of cities , towns and villages from North and south India and all of them are real and exist.

1. Rampur vs Ramapuram
2. Ranipur vs Ranipuram
3. Banapur vs Banapuram
4. Allapur vs Allapuram
5. Saidapur vs Saidapuram
6. Nandapur vs Nandapuram
7. Nadapur vs Nadapuram
8. Devipur vs Devipuram
9. Ayyapur vs Ayyapuram
10. Sayapur vs Sayapuram
11. Raipur vs Rayapuram
12. Siripur vs Siripuram
13. Krishnapur vs Krishnapuram
14. Balapur vs Balapuram
15. Even "Singapor" vs Singapur vs Singapuram

This is just 15 out of HUNDREDS. I just ran out of patience by writing just these.

Shree Kanchipuram, The Kanchi Matha shifted south to the city of Kumbakonam in mid-18th-century to escape Persecution and Atrocities of British Coloniser. Kanchi Matha returned to Kanchipuram in the 19th-century when theo-political stability returned after the British colonial rule.

Shree Kanchipuram was made a battlefront by the British and French in the Carnatic Wars and in the Anglo Mysore Wars

In 1780 Battle of Pollilur of the Second Anglo-Mysore War, known for the use of rockets by Hyder Ali of Mysore, was fought in the village of Pullalur near Kanchipuram. The Army of the British surrendered and suffered a High Number of Casualties. This was the worst loss the British suffered on the mainland.

In 1763, the British Company assumed indirect control of the Carnatic, comprising the present-day Kanchipuram and Tiruvallur Districts.

Shree Jaganath Puri - A Colonel Harcourt of the British Army landed on 25 August 1803, Colonel Harcourt of the British Army marched from Ganjam with 5000 men on 8 September 1803, to flush the Marathas out of the region.On 18 September 1803, Harcourt took control of Puri, On 17 December 1803, Radhoji Bhonsle Duwwam of Nagpur signed the Treaty of Deogaon (also Deogarh) in Odisha.

Mukunda Dev II mobilised An Army of Paika warriors and raised a Revolt against the British in 1804.

So Nishapur should be called according to your logic Nishapuram.

 

[manlion]

knows aligning with Hindu fascism will not get him any votes in Tamilnadu

Neither Tiruvalluvar nor I can be saffronised: Rajinikanth

https://www.deccanchronicle.com/nat...var-nor-i-can-be-saffronised-rajinikanth.html

Rajni with his idols Krishna and Arjun

"Krishna-Arjun": Rajinikanth Hails PM, Amit Shah, Then Delivers A Googly

HIGHLIGHTS

1. Rajinikanth congratulated Amit Shah on Kashmir decision
2. PM Modi, Amit Shah like Lord Krishna and Arjuna, he said
3. The Centre ended the special status of Jammu and Kashmir last week

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/raj...modi-amit-shah-then-delivers-a-googly-2083603

https://twitter.com/x/status/1192777093450387456