BJP questions ‘shift’ in defence procurement policy

[Dillinger]

Don't talk rubbish here, if you don't have anything to say.

I also don't like him much, but a fact is a fact, MMS is our PM, he has taken some great decisions in his 9 years as PMship, including the Indo-US nuke deal.

You don't have to hate him for the sake of hating.

EDIT: Atleast, we din't had to change our PM for the last 9 years, unlike some in our neighborhood who has to change 3 PM's in 5 years. Thats called POLITICAL STABILITY.

Yaara you want me to pitch in, regarding calculation of life cycle costs? Dekh yaar, there are various methods and standards, its like accounting just within a more technologically complex schema. There are various proscribed methods and you can't deviate from all of them- you will have to pick one at the end of the day.

So can someone arbitrarily spout out a hard figure in this regard? Nope! And they will have to qualify whichever method they've used too. So any fudging of figures will be apparent, if not in its details and entirety, if anyone with the right qualification looks it over.

But taking life cycle costs into consideration is a far more accurate method. Other more specific forms of corruption such as the window dressing with regard to figures and projections can occur, but that's a problem all nations face. But any assumptions with regard to such projections always have to qualified when these assessments are made making it clear how they were reached upon.

 

[SamantK]

While good points have been raised by people on both the sides, I think that a purchase is always a compromise. Sometimes you compromise more some times very less, nothing can fulfill your requirement 100%. Life cycle cost is a great way but it should be reviewed by the best brains in the business.. Rest is always in gods hand @Dillinger @arp2041 @Abingdonboy @KRAIT

 

[Abingdonboy]

While good points have been raised by people on both the sides, I think that a purchase is always a compromise. Sometimes you compromise more some times very less, nothing can fulfill your requirement 100%. Life cycle cost is a great way but it should be reviewed by the best brains in the business.. Rest is always in gods hand @Dillinger @arp2041 @Abingdonboy @KRAIT

Everything in this world is a compromise- nothing is perfect!

 

[arp2041]

Yaara you want me to pitch in, regarding calculation of life cycle costs? Dekh yaar, there are various methods and standards, its like accounting just within a more technologically complex schema. There are various proscribed methods and you can't deviate from all of them- you will have to pick one at the end of the day.

So can someone arbitrarily spout out a hard figure in this regard? Nope! And they will have to qualify whichever method they've used too. So any fudging of figures will be apparent, if not in its details and entirety, if anyone with the right qualification looks it over.

But taking life cycle costs into consideration is a far more accurate method. Other more specific forms of corruption such as the window dressing with regard to figures and projections can occur, but that's a problem all nations face. But any assumptions with regard to such projections always have to qualified when these assessments are made making it clear how they were reached upon.

Thank You Mr. CA, mujhey pata hai

Just wanted to know that if there is a window of opportunity in this one for corruption or choosing a less capable equipment than more capable one. I care only for the later one though.

But yes, Nothing is Perfect.

 

[Dillinger]

Thank You Mr. CA, mujhey pata hai

Just wanted to know that if there is a window of opportunity in this one for corruption or choosing a less capable equipment than more capable one. I care only for the later one though.

But yes, Nothing is Perfect.

You and I can always audit said projections, what say?

 

[Abingdonboy]

Just wanted to know that if there is a window of opportunity in this one for corruption or choosing a less capable equipment than more capable one. I care only for the later one though.

@arp2041 there is 0 way this is possible. The reason being that in these open tenders the entrants have to meet a certain criteria laid down by the relevant force, then to progress (in MMRCA's case the "down-select") the entrants are put through rigorous comparative evaluations and field trails. Those found "best" and most compliant to what the relevant force wants progresses to the opening of bids (that had been sealed up till now), it is only at this stage that money and costs come into it, up till this point everything has been based on technical capability and compliance with the force's needs.


As such in the case of corruption, the corruption could at worst led to India paying more than it should but, getting an inferior product is not possible given the stages the products have passed to get to that point.


Life-cycle costs actually give a far truer picture of the cost of a product to the Indian tax-payer. The Russians can artificially lower the cost of their products but then screw India over when it comes to spares, overhauls, weapons etc.

Technically speaking the Rafale won one cost grounds and hence was the "L1" contender. The L2 contender is judged to be as compliant to the IAF's needs as the L1 but just cost more. Having said that there is room for the IAF/MoD to have their say so it is no surprise the Rafale beat the inferior EFT.

 

[sancho]

Asking a question doesn't mean criticism or disagreement or argument. It could simply mean they want to better understand the govt. position.

Very true, but one also have to keep in mind how genuine the reasons for the questions are. In this case it seems to be valid, since he seems to want to point out general loopwholes in the policy, that could prevent problems in some competitions. He seems to know about what he is talking, but we have seen other examples as well, where politicians without even any basic knowledge of the topic simply barked around for political reasons / party politics. If the aim is to improve the system, for the benefit of India as a whole, such constructive criticism should be more than welcomed, but if the only purpose is to blame the ruling party in the public and this causes unnecessary delays, it's just shameful.

 

[ayesha.a]

but adongbingboy, your hero is woManmohan Singh.

Since when did calling somebody "woman" become an insult? I know that Indian society is extremely misogynistic, but have we really come to the level where the word "woman" itself is an insult?

 

[arp2041]

Since when did calling somebody "woman" become an insult? I know that Indian society is extremely misogynistic, but have we really come to the level where the word "woman" itself is an insult?

Don't pay attention to what that member said, no one agrees with his post.

It was very childish on his part.

On the contrary, the best INDIAN PM was a woman.

 

[arp2041]

Very true, but one also have to keep in mind how genuine the reasons for the questions are. In this case it seems to be valid, since he seems to want to point out general loopwholes in the policy, that could prevent problems in some competitions. He seems to know about what he is talking, but we have seen other examples as well, where politicians without even any basic knowledge of the topic simply barked around for political reasons / party politics. If the aim is to improve the system, for the benefit of India as a whole, such constructive criticism should be more than welcomed, but if the only purpose is to blame the ruling party in the public and this causes unnecessary delays, it's just shameful.

@sancho since we can only SPECULATE the AIM at best, we should not ourselves play politics on this matter & make it a BJP vs Congress Issue, instead we should try to answer the query raised by Sinha on pure technical grounds, which i think has been largely answered after the first page became a Political page. So I am ok with it.

 

[narcon]

Bloody idiots, life-cycle costs are the most effective way of assessing a system's cost credentials, this is what most Western military's use as well. When the Indian military just used the cheapest unit cost as the final say look what happend- high AoG rates, poor supply of spares, cr@p equipment, low maintainability etc etc

There is a reason the equipment is so cheap.

Classy move BJP, opposing for the sake of opposing.



Effing fools. I cannot put into words how much these idiots who know nothing about defence matters infuriate me.

Was the congress dumb all these years without such clause?

 

[Rig Vedic]

Our politicians have their own life cycle. They must visit the finest resorts around the world and enjoy the best prostitutes, spas and cuisine that money can buy. Why should not Congress leaders be given their life cycle costs?