Biggest deal: IAF may buy 189 jets for $20bn

[Skull and Bones]

well its su35 and few key benfits

1 today su35 is the best planes
2 it will provide a upper hand against china
3 we can gain them very fast as compare to others
4 dont you think time has come when we have to increase our numbers

just one simple question do you really think 60-65 su35 planes will be really a maintenance hazard my answer is no

just think if we can deploy them to china border till pakfa or mca

True, but Su-35s aren't in the medium weight category, maintaining heavier weight fighters like Su-30s and Su-35s are a cumbersome job.

 

[LiberalAtheist]

alright i'm just gonna come out with this which fighter is getting the contract? its gonna be EF isn't since its technically better than the Rafale albeit more expensive

 

[Laughing_soldier]

I want to see first one in IAF service not the number 126 or 190.

 

[deckingraj]

well its su35 and few key benfits

1 today su35 is the best planes
2 it will provide a upper hand against china
3 we can gain them very fast as compare to others
4 dont you think time has come when we have to increase our numbers

How about increasing the MKI's for that matter??? As said this plane has been rejected in MRCA competition....It just don't make sense to go after a plane which you rejected even though the planes that you favoured are available...no????

just one simple question do you really think 60-65 su35 planes will be really a maintenance hazard my answer is no

Then you are wrong....More the platforms more you will bleed when it comes to maintenance...The way you don't want to put all your eggs in a basket, you also don't want a separate basket for each egg.....

just think if we can deploy them to china border till pakfa or mca

You just don't buy planes and deploy them...you need to raise support staff...train pilots and plethora of things....it takes a minimum of 4-5 years before you master a new platform...Such an investment cannot be done for short term...Remember whatever we are going to buy we are eying atleast 25-30 years(even more) worth of service... In short if there is a need to fill the gap for short term i would better go for MKI"s than any new platform...

 

[DARKY]

How about increasing the MKI's for that matter??? As said this plane has been rejected in MRCA competition....It just don't make sense to go after a plane which you rejected even though the planes that you favoured are available...no????



Then you are wrong....More the platforms more you will bleed when it comes to maintenance...The way you don't want to put all your eggs in a basket, you also don't want a separate basket for each egg.....




You just don't buy planes and deploy them...you need to raise support staff...train pilots and plethora of things....it takes a minimum of 4-5 years before you master a new platform...Such an investment cannot be done for short term...Remember whatever we are going to buy we are eying atleast 25-30 years(even more) worth of service... In short if there is a need to fill the gap for short term i would better go for MKI"s than any new platform...

Su 35 is a Heavy weight fighter so....M-MRCA.....can't have them.............
They are similar to Su 30MKI so no need to to spend years on training staff and pilots.....It would require similar maintenance procedures as Su 30 MKI.
If it not were the promising electronics like Zhuk ASE, L-Band AESA, etc......and a decade of dependence on operating two pilots on an air superiority mission....then I think the Su 35BM would have been the best thing to buy rather than upgrading Su 30MKI.

 

[RockyX]

Just as a refresher.. what will be the IAF count then??
189 MRCA. 200 MKI's. 100 LCA's. 50 Mirage 2K's.. x AMCA's?..

272 Sukhoi MKI
189 MMRCA (Rafale most likely)
51 MIRAGE M2K
69 MIG 29SMT
58 TEJAS MK1
108-126 TEJAS MK2


50 PAK FA BY 2017-2020
250 FGFA After 2017.
250 AMCA* After 2020. *Number and time not yet confirmed

45 MiG-29K/KUB (for 2 Air Craft Carrier)
6 +6* Tejas (for 2 Air Craft Carrier) *Not yet confirmed

35-40 F-35/Typhoon/Rafale for 3rd AC Carrier INS Vishal (AC Fighter not yet confirmed)

80 MIG21 (Next year), Upgraded 120 MIG 21 by 2017, 145 MIG27 between 2017-2022. 169 Jaguar Between 2017-2022 will expire.

 

[conworldus]

272 Sukhoi MKI
189 MMRCA (Rafale most likely)
51 MIRAGE M2K
69 MIG 29SMT
58 TEJAS MK1
108-126 TEJAS MK2


50 PAK FA BY 2017-2020
250 FGFA After 2017.
250 AMCA* After 2020. *Number and time not yet confirmed

45 MiG-29K/KUB (for 2 Air Craft Carrier)
6 +6* Tejas (for 2 Air Craft Carrier) *Not yet confirmed

35-40 F-35/Typhoon/Rafale for 3rd AC Carrier INS Vishal (AC Fighter not yet confirmed)

80 MIG21 (Next year), Upgraded 120 MIG 21 by 2017, 145 MIG27 between 2017-2022. 169 Jaguar Between 2017-2022 will expire.

Why I am not in the jet making business???

Anyways if the above is true then India will have by far the deadliest air force in the world. Even uncle Sam would have to take the second place... I mean, 550 5th gen jet by 2020? Jesus smoke

 

[Archie]

Why I am not in the jet making business???

Anyways if the above is true then India will have by far the deadliest air force in the world. Even uncle Sam would have to take the second place... I mean, 550 5th gen jet by 2020? Jesus smoke

No need to get excited dude
most of what he has written regarding 5th fighters is fanBoy stuff

Infact India would be lucky to have 50 PAKFA/FGFA by 2020
Since most people that i know talk about delivery begining in 2018 and First Sqd being ready by end of 2019

Regarding PAKFA/FGFA , India has only signed a firm contract for 54 PAKFA to be delivered by Sukhoi , followed by 160 FGFA made according to Indian Specification by HAL under TOT from Sukhoi

As far as AMCA is concerned , well i would still feel great if it recieves IOC in 2025

 

[Mani2020]

I think india media is nothing but exaggerating the MRCA deal by calling it mother or granny yadda yadda , there have been many deals bigger than this including the recent Saudi Air force deals , I think they need to come out of this mentality and be releastic before exaggerating into something that it is not ...

Saudia was reported to be negotiating with US over a purchase of weapons worth 40 billion dollars icluding the massive deal for F-15 SE , also Saudi is inducting 144 EF-2000 out of which 72 has been recieved by them

Turkish airforce is all set to induct 116 F-35's and the reported cost for a single F-35 B is 150 million dollars now do the math yourself or should i do it for your media



There are other examples around

 

[fast and furious]

I think india media is nothing but exaggerating the MRCA deal by calling it mother or granny yadda yadda , there have been many deals bigger than this including the recent Saudi Air force deals , I think they need to come out of this mentality and be releastic before exaggerating into something that it is not ...

Saudia was reported to be negotiating with US over a purchase of weapons worth 40 billion dollars icluding the massive deal for F-15 SE , also Saudi is inducting 144 EF-2000 out of which 72 has been recieved by them

Turkish airforce is all set to induct 116 F-35's and the reported cost for a single F-35 B is 150 million dollars now do the math yourself or should i do it for your media



There are other examples around

Sir,Its the biggest defence deal for India, hence all those expressions.

 

[kartika]

I think india media is nothing but exaggerating the MRCA deal by calling it mother or granny yadda yadda , there have been many deals bigger than this including the recent Saudi Air force deals , I think they need to come out of this mentality and be releastic before exaggerating into something that it is not ...

Saudia was reported to be negotiating with US over a purchase of weapons worth 40 billion dollars icluding the massive deal for F-15 SE , also Saudi is inducting 144 EF-2000 out of which 72 has been recieved by them

Turkish airforce is all set to induct 116 F-35's and the reported cost for a single F-35 B is 150 million dollars now do the math yourself or should i do it for your media



There are other examples around

its the biggest defence deall because no other nation has so far conducted such a massive evaluation of fighter jets. we have conducted a compettion between the best jets and will be picking the the best.no other nation has done this before.

 

[Mani2020]

its the biggest defence deall because no other nation has so far conducted such a massive evaluation of fighter jets. we have conducted a compettion between the best jets and will be picking the the best.no other nation has done this before.

You are wrong here again and again your statement is a big example of exaggeration .

Brazil F-X2 fighter competition has equal number of jets competing and all were same as india except 1, so you want to say that the same fighters competing in Brazil aircraft competition were just dummies lol

Look at the competitors

1) F/A-18 E/F Super Hornet (same in indian MRCA)

2) Dassault’s Rafale (same in indian MRCA)

3) EADS’ Eurofighter (same in indian MRCA)

4) Saab’s JAS-39 Gripen NG (same in indian MRCA)

5) F-16 block 60

6) Sukhoi’s SU-35 (instead of Mig-35)

Now what will you say?

 

[sancho]

I think india media is nothing but exaggerating the MRCA deal by calling it mother or granny yadda yadda , there have been many deals bigger than this including the recent Saudi Air force deals , I think they need to come out of this mentality and be releastic before exaggerating into something that it is not ...

Saudia was reported to be negotiating with US over a purchase of weapons worth 40 billion dollars icluding the massive deal for F-15 SE , also Saudi is inducting 144 EF-2000 out of which 72 has been recieved by them

Turkish airforce is all set to induct 116 F-35's and the reported cost for a single F-35 B is 150 million dollars now do the math yourself or should i do it for your media



There are other examples around

The point you are missing is, that MMRCA is a competition, unlike the Saudi fighter deals (they only buy 72 EFs, not more), or the Turkish F35 procurement and MMRCA is indeed the biggest fighter competition around with the highest numbers of fighters. Also the $30 billion Saudi deal for F15 included upgrades of the older fighters and a lot of additional weapons and spares, while MMRCA is expected to easially go beyond the $35 billion mark and the number might go up with the additional 63.
It's not only Indian media that thinks this is a huge deal, but all vendors and countries that participated in the competition saw and see it the same. Just remember the end of the last year when nearly any leader of the UNC veto powers came to India to advertise their MMRCA fighters, which shows the importance as well. The only other competition, that is estimated with comparable size, or importance is the Brazilian, which could go up to 100+.
The fact is, India is modernising it's forces and is a huge market for arms exports at the moment, that's why several of of the biggest deals will be done in India now. India is the largest customer of C17s and P8s outside of the US now, will be the biggest LUH customer if that deal is fixed as well, is already the biggest customer of Scorpene subs and could even double the number soon. Just a few examples that the biggest deals are now done in India and why India is so important to the whole world in terms of arms exports at the moment.

 

[DARKY]

You are wrong here again and again your statement is a big example of exaggeration .

Brazil F-X2 fighter competition has equal number of jets competing and all were same as india except 1, so you want to say that the same fighters competing in Brazil aircraft competition were just dummies lol

Look at the competitors

1) F/A-18 E/F Super Hornet (same in indian MRCA)

2) Dassault’s Rafale (same in indian MRCA)

3) EADS’ Eurofighter (same in indian MRCA)

4) Saab’s JAS-39 Gripen NG (same in indian MRCA)

5) F-16 block 60

6) Sukhoi’s SU-35 (instead of Mig-35)

Now what will you say?

36 Aircrafts and 126 aircrafts.......which deal is bigger??.......Its not about the competitors or the amount......the real deal is about transfer of technology.......so that most of those planes could be manufactured in India by Indian Engineers and workers.......and use the technologies....on other planes....made by HAL.....Unlike your SA or Turkish deals where Americans would send staff from respective companies to even wash those planes.....and hide certain chips and tracking device in those birds.

No country could use their political influence over the deal.......which is not the case else where........India itself has bigger deals signed in aviation sectors but it is not reported as MMRCA deal......as such large scale competition.......parameter testing between the birds without any pressure never happened before.......The Brazilian competition itself is waiting for India to announce the winner.

 

[Laughing_soldier]

When IAF will get it can anyone say?