Biden starts infrastructure bet with US far behind China

[beijingwalker]

Again, no. All I pointed out, in the context of this thread, that Americans can travel all they wish on their nation's infrastructure as often and and as far they like. That is a huge advantage, like it or not.

People from which country can not travel all they wish on their nation's infrastructure?

 

[VCheng]

People from which country can not travel all they wish on their nation's infrastructure?

That is a great question! I wonder what the answer(s) might be in the context of this thread?

 

[mike2000 is back]

Comparing Western infrastructure spending to China is stupid. China is spending money on infrastructure that isnt needed. They are literally building entire cities without anyone living in them simply to prop up the economy.

Having been to china more than once and visited several Chinese cities (I didn't spend much time on the major ones like Beijing or Shanghai as I prefer to visit lesser known places when I visit a country), I can say that they have done very well when it comes to city planning (not surprising though, easy Asian countries are good in planning and organisation, s Korea, Japan, singapore etc have similar or even better planned cities). They ghost cities you call is more like cities being built in advance of the coming population exodus instead of allowing population to outgrow the infrastructure in place leading to disorder/chaos and shanty towns etc like we see in almost every developing country out there, India is a good case study.
What surprised me there was that even 3rd and 4th tier cities are well developed and with good infrastructure. In fact, I found out that even their 3rd and 4th tier cities where better than India's biggest cities like Mumbai, Bengalore or Delhi Which I visited. So you can imagine the contrast and difference.
Granted I guess there are some projects in China which shouldn't have been carried out but where built due to some illegal deals/corruption but those seem to be a tiny minority. Overall they got city planning quite well. India, Pakistan, African countries an other developing countries should be learning a thing or two from this model.

 

[FuturePAF]

For major metropolitan areas, commuter traffic takes priority, and on the long distance routes, freight traffic take priority over rail passenger traffic. That is just the way the system is designed to operate currently. Expecting USA to match other nation's choices for rail system is simply daft, given the preferences and needs of its own population.

If HSR rail ever makes sense, it will probably start along the eastern seaboard between major cities, and perhaps the west coast in a few select corridors. Even then, there will continue to be stiff competition from other modes of travel.

just paraphrasing what Congressman Moulton said. He is the one pushing for a $205 Billion investment into HSR

 

[VCheng]

just paraphrasing what Congressman Moulton said. He is the one pushing for a $205 Billion investment into HSR

Congresscritters love money, of course, preferably for their own districts.

They ghost cities you call is more like cities being built in advance of the coming population exodus instead of allowing population to outgrow the infrastructure in place leading to disorder/chaos and shanty towns etc

That rapid rate of building is therefore appropriate for China. It is what they need to do, of course. But to expect others with more stable population to match that rate of new constructions, or to compare such construction as some kind of competition is simply juvenile and inapplicable.


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BONUS QUESTION: How many time zones are there in China?

 

[mike2000 is back]

China also has better and longer highways, but it doesn't stop China building high speed railways and subways.

US system is different. American culture is very car oriented. Even if there is high speed rail available in the US VERY FEW PEOPLE will be using them, so it's not viable in the US.
Moreover the vast presence of airports all around the country even in the most remote areaa makes it even more unviable. There are over 19,633 airports in the US , by far the largest in the world and most develop aerospace industry on earth.

Which Countries Have The Most Airports?

www.google.co.uk

Even more Reason there was never a need for high speed rail in the US, unlike in Europe, Japan.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Biden has really gone in for China. Maybe he has fallen under the pressure of the generals in pentagon who are lookig for enemies to justify their existence. And at same time building up the threat from China helps to mask over the internal differance we saw explode on our screens earlier this year.

 

[beijingwalker]

US system is different. American culture is very car oriented. Even if there is high speed rail available in the US VERY FEW PEOPLE will be using them, so it's not viable in the US.
Moreover the vast presence of airports all around the country even in the most remote areaa makes it even more unviable. There are over 19,633 airports in the US , by far the largest in the world and most develop aerospace industry on earth.

Which Countries Have The Most Airports?

www.google.co.uk

Even more Reason there was never a need for high speed rail in the US, unlike in Europe, Japan.

I guess US cities also don't need subways, highways and bridges...

 

[mike2000 is back]

I guess US cities also don't need subways, highways and bridges...

Yes, motorways, bridges etc have more needs than high speed railway which to be honest is not viable in the U.S
US already has a vast motorway network. What they need is to upgrade and maintain them better. So this will require vast capital but should be done. US is already a matured developed country and has been a developed industrialised country for over half a Century, they already have the infrastructure, what is needed is more of the maintenance part.

China by contrast is still a developing country with an even larger population, so obviously it's expected there are still in the building and developing new infrastructure phase. In a few decades from now when you guys become a developed country , such vast infrastructure building projects won't be needed anymore, as you would have reached saturation point. Japan/South Korea etc went through similar phases. In fact even countries like Britain, Germany etc all went through this phase of rapid growth and vast infrastructure building phase when they were developing rapidly. Now it's more about maintenance and upgrading.

 

[VCheng]

I guess US cities also don't need subways, highways and bridges...

Actually, there are plans to think about removing some highways that transverse town centers, for example the I-81 elevated section in Syracuse NY. Imagine that!

 

[beijingwalker]

Yes, motorways, bridges etc have more needs than high speed railway which to be honest is not viable in the U.S
US already has a vast motorway network. What they need is to upgrade and maintain them better. So this will require vast capital but should be done. US is already a matured developed country and has been a developed industrialised country for over half a Century, they already have the infrastructure, what is needed is more of the maintenance part.

China by contrast is still a developing country with an even larger population, so obviously it's expected there are still in the building and developing new infrastructure phase. In a few decades from now when you guys become a developed country , such vast infrastructure building projects won't be needed anymore, as you would have reached saturation point. Japan/South Korea etc went through similar phases. In fact even countries like Britain, Germany etc all went through this phase of rapid growth and vast infrastructure building phase when they were developing rapidly. Now it's more about maintenance and upgrading.

But China's scale is different, it's unprecedented in the whole human history.

 

[VCheng]

But China's scale is different, it's unprecedented in the whole human history.

So what? USA used enough cement to serve its needs; China is now using enough cement to serve its own needs. Entirely logical.

 

[beijingwalker]

So what? USA used enough cement to serve its needs; China is now using enough cement to serve its own needs. Entirely logical.

Yes, But China's scale is different, it's unprecedented in the whole human history.

 

[VCheng]

Yes, But China's scale is different, it's unprecedented in the whole human history.

So what? It also has the most people with the most needs for such infrastructure. Entirely appropriate.

 

[beijingwalker]

So what? It also has the most people with the most needs for such infrastructure. Entirely appropriate.

With similar size in lands, and China's terrains make the country the most difficult place in the world to mass build infrastructures.