Beijing's highest tower can withstand 9/11-style attack

[StingRoy]

I doubt any 9/11 style attack will be possible anymore. The pilots and passengers will fight a lot harder now that the 9/11 precedent has been set.

Thats true... the cockpits are sealed these days during the flight... but what if the pilot turns rogue.

The terrorist are always thinking few steps ahead of the security measures taken until that incident happens. Thats why we always live in fear because we are not sure what, when and how the next attack will be.

 

[lunnn]

Is it built by the same HK developer of HK WTC in Kowloon West? It look exactly the same.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Making such a statement may not be wise since all the terrorists are going to take that as a challenge.

deploy some SAMs near that beauty

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Is it built by the same HK developer of HK WTC in Kowloon West? It look exactly the same.

You're right it does look quite similar, especially the top part.

I wouldn't be surprised if some of the building experts worked on that project as well.

No problem of course. It looks great.

 

[ThatDamnGood]

Yes I am aware of that... but I thought the design of this new tower will be able to withstand structural collapse in case of a major fire burning at temperatures which are consistent with burning jet fuel. Unless that structural guarantee is there for the whole building, any building can be susceptible for a 9/11 type collapse.

The problem is that jet fuel/kerosine fire cannot melt steel. That's why the WTC collapse is so so "interesting". But we got more exciting "drama" to watch nowadays. Its something of any oldie.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

The problem is that jet fuel/kerosine fire cannot melt steel. That's why the WTC collapse is so so "interesting". But we got more exciting "drama" to watch nowadays. Its something of any oldie.

depending on a lot of variables, steel will typically melt or begin to melt at approx. 1300-1400 degrees C (rough;ly 2500 degrees F). It boils @ approx. 3000 degrees C (5400 degrees F)

jet grade fuel (basically kerosense) will burn at no more than approx. 1800 degrees F....

assuming that is what caused the WTCs to collapse, one would have to realize that the prolonged exposure of the steel girders to burning fuel is what caused the steel to become compromised and lose strength (over those few hours)

problem would be exacerbated by wind, and I'm sure that at that height, and proximity to hudson river, wind would have been reasonably high

 

[gambit]

The problem is that jet fuel/kerosine fire cannot melt steel. That's why the WTC collapse is so so "interesting". But we got more exciting "drama" to watch nowadays. Its something of any oldie.

Is that speaking from personal experience?

What's the melting point of steel?

Most steel has other metals added to tune its properties, like strength, corrosion resistance, or ease of fabrication. Steel is just the element iron that has been processed to control the amount of carbon. Iron, out of the ground, melts at around 1510 degrees C (2750°F). Steel often melts at around 1370 degrees C (2500°F).

Afterburner Basics

Since the temperature of an afterburner can reach 1700 deg. C, the flame is usually concentrated around the jet pipe axis, allowing a portion of the discharge gas to flow along the wall of the jet pipe and therefore maintain a safe wall temperature.

Now...Nowhere did anyone claimed that the steel columns melted. We are talking about structure that has a constant gravity driven load. Said structures needs only to soften, even at a small area, and let gravity driven stress initiate a collapse.

Aviation fuel is kerosene and under the right condition, like the afterburner section of a jet engine, its burn temperature is clearly high enough to melt steel. That is not to say there were afterburners in airliner jet engines but to point out a technical error from ignorance that is often used to propagate these loony conspiracy theories.

Temperatures in flames and fires

Flame temperatures in room fires

There is fairly broad agreement in the fire science community that flashover is reached when the average upper gas temperature in the room exceeds about 600°C. Prior to that point, no generalizations should be made: There will be zones of 900°C flame temperatures, but wide spatial variations will be seen. Of interest, however, is the peak fire temperature normally associated with room fires. The peak value is governed by ventilation and fuel supply characteristics [12] and so such values will form a wide frequency distribution. Of interest is the maximum value which is fairly regularly found. This value turns out to be around 1200°C, although a typical post-flashover room fire will more commonly be 900~1000°C. The time-temperature curve for the standard fire endurance test, ASTM E 119 [13] goes up to 1260°C, but this is reached only in 8 hr. In actual fact, no jurisdiction demands fire endurance periods for over 4 hr, at which point the curve only reaches 1093°C.

Look at the temperature variations in an ordinary house fire. There are no shortages of shared knowledge among firefighters WORLDWIDE on how hot can a house fire can go. Theirs is a society with a common interest -- the preservation of civilization. So it is of paramount importance that they share knowledge with each other as to how to accomplish this shared interest.

And here is another...

Mont Blanc Tunnel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Pierlucio Tinazzi

Pierlucio Tinazzi, an Italian security guard employed by the SITMB, is credited with saving at least 10 of the 12 survivors.[1] Another source credits him with helping all 12. Regardless, these survivors described Tinazzi's heroism with the same statement:

That guy on the motorcycle saved my life.[5]

Sadly, Tinazzi perished helping victims of the fire. His job was to ride up and down the tunnel to see that everything was running smoothly. He was on the French side at the time emergency services had given up. He donned breathing equipment and rode into the tunnel on his BMW K75. He was in radio contact with the Italian side for over an hour before succumbing to the intense heat and perishing. His BMW melted into the pavement after he dragged an unconscious truck driver behind a fire door. A commemorative plaque at the Italian entrance honors his heroism.

That was no exaggeration. The man's car was in melted pieces. There is no doubt that there are comparable interior conditions between the Mont Blanc tunnel fire and each WTC tower. And if ordinary gasoline and household items can burn hot enough to literally melt steel, why is it so improbable that aviation fuel and office sundries can reach the same?

 

[S_O_C_O_M]

People are skeptical about the super-tall building after the Sept. 11 attacks in U.S. The main beams of the China World Trade Tower 3 use stiffness and column reinforcement so that even if the tower encounters the impact of aircrafts, it will not collapse.

Furthermore, bullet-proof glass is installed in the main ballrooms where senior officials will be received. And there are five refuge floors that can withstand a fire lasting for three hours.

I'm not sure about this claim. The impact of the the 9/11 attacks did not cause the buildings to collapse, the fire hot jet fuel melted the steel beams in the buildings which caused the floors above where the plane impacted to collapse like a pancake to the floors below the impact. Unless the five refuge floors are in a place where the plane will most likely strike or all the floors are covered with fire-retardent foam that can handle the high temps of jet fuel this claim is not feasible.

 

[razgriz19]

its funny that when ever someone say "terrorists" everyone just think of it as muslims or muslim state!
today i was in MSA meeting (muslim club in my school) and our teacher showed us a CIA document. that article showed a research (based on 500 terrorists, done by CIA) that 90% of those terrists didn't have any knowledge about islam, though they were muslim because they had muslim names but they didn't know a thing about islam!!!
and it also mentioned the 4 main reason why all these people became terrorists! some of them were inequality, descrimination, but these are just small ones......i dont remember the four main ones but i'll try to find that article and i'll post it on the forum!

now back to topic!
builders of the twin towers said the same thing that these buildings could easily withstand the impact of big commercial airliners!
......so i dont kno what to say anymore.....

 

[gambit]

its funny that when ever someone say "terrorists" everyone just think of it as muslims or muslim state!
today i was in MSA meeting (muslim club in my school) and our teacher showed us a CIA document. that article showed a research (based on 500 terrorists, done by CIA) that 90% of those terrists didn't have any knowledge about islam, though they were muslim because they had muslim names but they didn't know a thing about islam!!!
and it also mentioned the 4 main reason why all these people became terrorists! some of them were inequality, descrimination, but these are just small ones......i dont remember the four main ones but i'll try to find that article and i'll post it on the forum!

now back to topic!
builders of the twin towers said the same thing that these buildings could easily withstand the impact of big commercial airliners!
......so i dont kno what to say anymore.....

Most Americans do not know about the US Constitution that is the foundation of their country...But that does not make them any less 'American'. If anything, YOU would gladly disregard this fact and call them 'Americans' anyway by virtue of the fact that they are/were borne in US controlled territories.

 

[gambit]

now back to topic!
builders of the twin towers said the same thing that these buildings could easily withstand the impact of big commercial airliners!
......so i dont kno what to say anymore.....

Incorrect...

Leslie Robertson never claimed so...

Reflections on the World Trade Center

The buildings survived the impact of the Boeing 767 aircraft, an impact very much greater than had been contemplated in our design (a slow-flying Boeing 707 lost in the fog and seeking a landing field).

The kinetic energy difference between take-off/landing speed versus full throttle was never something Robertson can build against.

I do not expect you to concede that what Robertson said as a valid alternative explanation. That would be too intellectually honest.

 

[no_name]

Well the buildings were designed for an accidental crash, not a deliberate one made at full speed.

 

[gambit]

Well the buildings were designed for an accidental crash, not a deliberate one made at full speed.

There is no way to verify the claim made by the builders of this new tower other than to actually recreate -- in real -- what happened to the WTC towers. Nevertheless, the fact that they made this claim is a tacit acknowledgment that there was no 'conspiracy theory' regarding the WTC towers attacks.

 

[abdullahk]

sorry to say gambit sir but it is known that nano thermite was found in the crash site , and evidence of v shape charges are shown. kinetic energy may have had an impact on the top of WTC but not the remaining structure . funny how it falled so nicely like a controaled demolition. keywitneses where rejected for testimonial on the 9/11 report evidence of pre planing of WTC.

 

[gambit]

sorry to say gambit sir but it is known that nano thermite was found in the crash site , and evidence of v shape charges are shown. kinetic energy may have had an impact on the top of WTC but not the remaining structure . funny how it falled so nicely like a controaled demolition. keywitneses where rejected for testimonial on the 9/11 report evidence of pre planing of WTC.

No...There is no such thing as 'nano thermite'. Steven Jones' original claim of regular thermite was discredited when it was argued that many other ordinary things can produce forensic evidences that point to thermite, so he amended his claim to 'nano thermite'. Further, thermite is a slow burning substance, not an explosive. Thermite is used for cutting and because it is slow burning, the item to be cut is usually horizontal, not vertical, in order to make a clean cut. How real thermite is used, by itself, is already not credible as an argument to support any loony conspiracy theory, let alone the rest of your claim.