Begging vs Charity

[war&peace]

I am creating this thread to discuss a social issue which we often face but do not consider it worth discussing. In our culture and especially our religion there is a lot of impetus on being charitable. Zakat is mandatory but non-mandatory charity to help the poor or someone standing for a right cause is highly recommended. However begging is derided and strongly denounced by the Holy Prophet (peace be upon him). All able bodied adult men are required to earn halal livelihood and even support their families (at wife and children). For the disabled and sick people, Islamic govt is supposed to provide the social security which does not work in Pakistan. Thus we see people begging on busy streets and many of them alway beg i.e. like a profession. So the question is should we help them? whether giving money to them is justified or it is rather counterproductive?

@I.R.A @django @Hell hound @SherDil @Khafee @Slav Defence

 

[Mugwop]

I am creating this thread to discuss a social issue which we often face but do not consider it worth discussing. In our culture and especially our religion there is a lot of impetus on being charitable. Zakat is mandatory but non-mandatory charity to help the poor or someone standing for a right cause is highly recommended. However begging is derided and strongly denounced by the Holy Prophet (peace be upon him). All able bodied adult men are required to earn halal livelihood and even support their families (at wife and children). For the disabled and sick people, Islamic govt is supposed to provide the social security which does not work in Pakistan. Thus we see people begging on busy streets and many of them alway beg i.e. like a profession. So the question is should we help them? whether giving money to them is justified or it is rather counterproductive?

@I.R.A @django @Hell hound @SherDil @Khafee @Slav Defence

Thanks to Webmaster and Slav defence I know where to donate money. EDHI and EDHI only
I encourage other members here to do the same.

 

[war&peace]

Thanks to Webmaster and Slav defence I know where to donate money. EDHI and EDHI only
I encourage other members here to do the same.

That's true but perhaps I couldn't make my point clear. When a man or a woman approaches you outside a posh restaurant and asks for money to buy a meal because he or she is hungry, it really makes very difficult for me to turn them down...and if I do for some genuine reason, I feel guilt for hours..

 

[Hell hound]

I am creating this thread to discuss a social issue which we often face but do not consider it worth discussing. In our culture and especially our religion there is a lot of impetus on being charitable. Zakat is mandatory but non-mandatory charity to help the poor or someone standing for a right cause is highly recommended. However begging is derided and strongly denounced by the Holy Prophet (peace be upon him). All able bodied adult men are required to earn halal livelihood and even support their families (at wife and children). For the disabled and sick people, Islamic govt is supposed to provide the social security which does not work in Pakistan. Thus we see people begging on busy streets and many of them alway beg i.e. like a profession. So the question is should we help them? whether giving money to them is justified or it is rather counterproductive?

@I.R.A @django @Hell hound @SherDil @Khafee @Slav Defence

After an incident in which a friend of mine was held at knife point when he lowered his car window at a signal i advise anyone against helping the beggars one sees at signals.most of these guys are either acting and some of them are waiting to get jump on you.
coming to zakat or charity most of the time me and my family helps the poor in our village as it is also a farman of prophet one should always help his close relatives first then comes the needy living in close vicinity and then these national charities.

 

[I.R.A]

Zakat

That outdated 2.5% mandatory payment that we do every year? Your taxes are your Zakat. But in Pakistan taxes are for Parliament and Zakat is for madrassahs ....... God have mercy on late Edhi otherwise corpses of poor and helpless would rot on streets and no one would bury them.

However begging is derided and strongly denounced by the Holy Prophet (peace be upon him).

Before going to that point ........... one needs to understand what it means by Orphans and Miskeen in Quran, my understanding is every poor and helpless is orphan and miskeen. We can start criticizing begging and beggars once every orphan and Miskeen has been taken care of and not before. Fraudsters know we will never be able to do that, and they exploit the situation for their gain, they exploit the helpless poor people and children and use them for begging ........... its a mafia an industry in its own.

So the question is should we help them? whether giving money to them is justified or it is rather counterproductive?

When you are living in a system that enslaves every human ........ there is no point discussing morality of few beggars. As a Muslim wealth accumulation is not encouraged. So any excess money I carry is a burden. I used to think giving money to children is counterproductive I should discourage their begging ......... but soon realised that way I am adding to their misery. I always wish someday this impotent and incompetent state would go after the people who make these children beg and not arrest these children to discourage them.

The people I normally share money with are

• Old
• Passengers
• Family in need
• Children
• Transgenders

Apart from these every other beggar gets a series of questions asked by me.

That's true but perhaps I couldn't make my point clear. When a man or a woman approaches you outside a posh restaurant and asks for money to buy a meal because he or she is hungry, it really make very difficult for me to turn them down...and if do for some genuine reason, I feel guilt for hours..

Buy them food instead ......... that is what I normally do.

 

[war&peace]

After an incident in which a friend of mine was held at knife point when he lowered his car window at a signal i advise anyone against helping the beggars one sees at signals.most of these guys are either acting and some of them are waiting to get jump on you.
coming to zakat or charity most of the time me and my family helps the poor in our village as it is also a farman of prophet one should always help his close relatives first then comes the needy living in close vicinity and then these national charities.

In Sweden, we normally don't have beggars but a group of people called Gypsies, mainly from Romania and other parts of Europe travel to richer western countries like Sweden and beg. I actually bumped into one a few days ago near the city centre (central station).

A healthy tall young guy in his late 20's or early 30's with beard and wiry face, ..approached me and asked me if I could speak English, then he asked me to help him as he hadn't eaten and he couldn't get a job because he was from Greece and stuck in Sweden and his wallet and documents got stolen (highly unlikely in Sweden but still possible) and I was about to step into a Sushi bar for lunch and in Sweden.

We don't carry cash often because everything is paid by credit/debit cards and Apple pay etc. But he knew this fact so he asked me to get some cash from the ATM ..which wasn't far.. any how I had some (~7000 PKRs) left from my recent visit to Pakistan which I just keep in case I need to buy anything on Pakistani airport or have to hire taxi in case none can come to receive me in a timely manner. So he saw those note when I looked for some Kronas and started insisting that I give him all of it. I gave him only Rs 2000 and left. But later I kept thinking if I did wrong.. I could have gone to the ATM and helped him etc etc.. I'm feeling this guilt now, so I opened this discussion.
.

That outdated 2.5% mandatory payment that we do every year? Your taxes are your Zakat. But in Pakistan taxes are for Parliament and Zakat is for madrassahs ....... God have mercy on late Edhi otherwise corpses of poor and helpless would rot on streets and no one would bury them.



Before going to that point ........... one needs to understand what it means by Orphans and Miskeen in Quran, my understanding is every poor and helpless is orphan and miskeen. We can start criticizing begging and beggars once every orphan and Miskeen has been taken care of and not before. Fraudsters know we will never be able to do that, and they exploit the situation for their gain, they exploit the helpless poor people and children and use them for begging ........... its a mafia an industry in its own.



When you are living in a system that enslaves every human ........ there is no point discussing morality of few beggars. As a Muslim wealth accumulation is not encouraged. So any excess money I carry is a burden. I used to think giving money to children is counterproductive I should discourage their begging ......... but soon realised that way I am adding to their misery. I always wish someday this impotent and incompetent state would go after the people who make these children beg and not arrest these children to discourage them.

The people I normally share money with are

• Old
• Passengers
• Family in need
• Children
• Transgenders

Apart from these every other beggar gets a series of questions asked by me.



Buy them food instead ......... that is what I normally do.

You know man, I don't agree with some or most of your points but some of your points are just excellent and genuine that's why I like to discuss with you.

 

[I.R.A]

You know man, I don't agree with some or most of your points but some of your points are just excellent and genuine that's why I like to discuss with you.

I don't mind you have every right to disagree with what I say, I share my thoughts for my own improvement and better understanding, and in some cases for others to think a little differently.

 

[Signalian]

Its better not to judge. God tests us in many different ways. On day of judgement God can say to me that i came to you in such a such form (whether strong healthy or whether weak old) and asked for food or money and you declined me.
Secondly, you cant judge circumstances of a person and what situation he is in currently that he resorted to beg even if healthy or strong.

 

[Hell hound]

In Sweden, we normally don't have beggars but a group of people called Gypsies, mainly from Romania and other parts of Europe travel to richer western countries like Sweden and beg. I actually bumped into one a few days ago near the city centre (central station).

A healthy tall young guy in his late 20's or early 30's with beard and wiry face, ..approached me and asked me if I could speak English, then he asked me to help him as he hadn't eaten and he couldn't get a job because he was from Greece and stuck in Sweden and his wallet and documents got stolen (highly unlikely in Sweden but still possible) and I was about to step into a Sushi bar for lunch and in Sweden.

We don't carry cash often because everything is paid by credit/debit cards and Apple pay etc. But he knew this fact so he asked me to get some cash from the ATM ..which wasn't far.. any how I had some (~7000 PKRs) left from my recent visit to Pakistan which I just keep in case I need to buy anything on Pakistani airport or have to hire taxi in case none can come to receive me in a timely manner. So he saw those note when I looked for some Kronas and started insisting that I give him all of it. I gave him only Rs 2000 and left. But later I kept thinking if I did wrong.. I could have gone to the ATM and helped him etc etc.. I'm feeling this guilt now, so I opened this discussion.
.

mate guilt is normal after all we all are human beings and can't see our kind in pain.
i once was performing umrah and during saie a well off looking 23 something year old Pakistani guy with his old mother approached me and asked if can i speak urdu. i said yeah i could after that he said that someone has stole all his money and mobile phone from hotel when he was away for umrah few days ago and can i help him. believe me bro never have i faced such guilt in my life when i had to say no to him because i wasn't carrying any thing on me (as you know ahrams have no pockets ) and my car was parked many miles away.i knew for sure that he was not lying as no god fearing man will lie there.

 

[war&peace]

Its better not to judge. God tests us in many different ways. On day of judgement God can say to me that i came to you in such a such form (whether strong healthy or whether weak old) and asked for food or money and you declined me.
Secondly, you cant judge circumstances of a person and what situation he is in currently that he resorted to beg even if healthy or strong.

Yeah I have that in mind all the time and my parents also engraved that on my mind that never decline a hungry person the food. But the question is whether the person is genuinely hungry? Because these gypsies travel thousands of km normally on Caravans (house-trucks) in which they live and travel. They are habitual beggars. But I have met some Gypsies who have left begging and started to settle.

 

[SherDil]

I will second @Signalian , All i understand that if someone (beggars) approaches us for money or any other thing than we shouldn't hesitate to help them as Allah swt gave us everything (wealth) whether we deserve it or than why we hesitate and think before giving something, that He or She might deserve that or not ?

 

[django]

I am creating this thread to discuss a social issue which we often face but do not consider it worth discussing. In our culture and especially our religion there is a lot of impetus on being charitable. Zakat is mandatory but non-mandatory charity to help the poor or someone standing for a right cause is highly recommended. However begging is derided and strongly denounced by the Holy Prophet (peace be upon him). All able bodied adult men are required to earn halal livelihood and even support their families (at wife and children). For the disabled and sick people, Islamic govt is supposed to provide the social security which does not work in Pakistan. Thus we see people begging on busy streets and many of them alway beg i.e. like a profession. So the question is should we help them? whether giving money to them is justified or it is rather counterproductive?

@I.R.A @django @Hell hound @SherDil @Khafee @Slav Defence

Bro some of these beggars have stomachs that put "Rosie O' Donnel" to shame, wonder how they acquired them, gluttony is not cheap.Kudos bro

 

[Salik]

Its better not to judge. God tests us in many different ways. On day of judgement God can say to me that i came to you in such a such form (whether strong healthy or whether weak old) and asked for food or money and you declined me.
Secondly, you cant judge circumstances of a person and what situation he is in currently that he resorted to beg even if healthy or strong.

It isn't that "I came to you in such and such condition" but "I was in such and such condition" and you didn't feed me or help me etc.

You have to see the trend, if needy people ask for help and beggars are more active or not. In our society later is the case in affirmation. It is well known fact.

The Prophet peace be upon him also gave a person an axe instead, to work and earn. So we have to open our eyes along with pockets and wallets.

Umer may God be please with him used to round the streets to see the condition of the people. Once he found a really needy family, he helped them right away. So hunt for needy is also recommended act.

In the end, if you've given taxes, don't feel guilty. Burden is on the ruler now. That's why great people never demanded to be ruler for great responsibility.

 

[El Sidd]

This is a reason why Pakistan is considered a third world country.

People are being forced to beg and those who are the haves and have-nots of the society are debating who merits charity.

Ironical oxymoronic thread.

Khud kay paas kese araha ha kabhi socha nahi or jinke paas hai nahi uski roti cheen lo.

Why was the question not put like

" Why would a Pakistani beg while mega corruption scandals are in hundreds of billions of dollars "

Koi Sharam nahi hoti
Koi haya nahi hoti

Are sharam and haya mere phonetics?

 

[Well.wisher]

You should give who ever comes to u if you've money . Don waste yourself thinking and judging the begger .
If we look at ourself , to hum b to is sub k qabil nahi jo kuch Allah ne hum ko dia ha so y judge others .
U give only for Allah , don't u ? So let Allah reward u .. Stop judging this n that begger ,
Begging is bad but do u have such talent to look at people's life nd judge why they started begging .
Some people r really 'majboor ', no one likes begging .. who does ? No one like it . But think how tired and depressed they're that caused them to beg .