BBC report on Pakistan's failed 1965 war plans.

[Stephen Cohen]

Operation Grand Slam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

back to 65, to our covert operation in Kashmir Indians replied with conventional war along the international border and were halted well before they could have their drinks in Lahore Gymkhana club.

WRONG ; Operation Gibraltar was a Unconventional attack on Kashmir

But Operational Grand Slam was an ARMOURED offensive on India

That was REPLIED by an Indian Counter attack on Lahore and Sialkot

Grand Slam - A Battle of Lost Opportunities

 

[saiyan0321]

Wats up with these threads.. For the last month Indians have been posting such threads again and again but aadky they failed to convince us and our think tank analysts and posters points were not countered with strong arguments. They wanted us to be sad and demoralized but we are filled with fervor and enthusiasm and patriotism.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Pakistani Objective

1. Capture Kashmir ; Failed .
2. capture Amritsar ; Failed .
3. Capture Jaipur and then New Delhi ; Failed .

Defend territory ya if starts from 8Km from Lahore . Or haji pir pass .!!! Just example of how well defended was that .

your comprehension of the subject matter, Failed

.

3. Capture Jaipur and then New Delhi ; Failed .
.

LOL? Zaid Hamid was a kid then, we never planned to capture Dehil then. we were pounding your guys at Lahore and Sialkot.

 

[Stephen Cohen]

Why Pakistan lost Akhnur

 

[Icarus]

@Icarus

You have very conveniently OMITTED Operation GRAND SLAM

That was a CONVENTIONAL ATTACK on India

It was a skirmish intended to take pressure of the Indian momentum off of the Gibraltar troops, it was more sacrificial than anything.

 

[Stephen Cohen]

@Horus @Icarus @Irfan Baloch

Would you be KIND enough to explain the DIFFERENCE between
Operation GIBRALTAR and Operation Grand Slam

 

[GURU DUTT]

.



If we are tracing origins here, why not start with Alexander the Great fro attacking Raja Porus?



As if Shastri did not sign that accord, walked out of the hall and announced that he would fight to the bitter end? Any document has two sets of signature buddy.



Once again, irrelevant. But you know a book, good for you.



Read conventional and unconventional warfare post.



Read conventional and unconventional warfare post.



We got a new public holiday.

1. lets not get that deep sir lets start with 1948 did you get kashmir for that

2.but shastri was PM of india which at that time was under serous food shortage and count deviate much needed supplies for war effort so he signed the declaration and got huge parts of pakistan kashmir and punjab and got back rann of kuchh from pakistan i say fair deal

3. now what about conventional or non conventional war when your nation took the panga but count get kashmir or rann of kachh .... its not the war but its objectives and results that matter sirji

4. so according to you a publick holiday is worth enof to comensate of a consatant fear of war loss of half of nation ,
loss of billions of dollars and death of innocent civillians and millitarry personall on both sides
+ taking into account the so called fighting as a paid help for USA ,
thousands getting killed deu to releigous extremism and socio economick problems ,
kalashinkov culture , drugs drone strikes , seucide bomb attacks and target killings
and a very very acute problem of illitrecy, class strugglle ,corruption , incomptence and what not

and then your whole nation is made to beleve that taking pange with india was always justified as it in the end as it gave you one publick holliday ....

no wonder pakistan is in a state where it cant find a way owt of all the mess it itself created for itself

so much for a publick holiday

 

[truthseeker2010]

Wats up with these threads.. For the last month Indians have been posting such threads again and again but aadky they failed to convince us and our think tank analysts and posters points were not countered with strong arguments. They wanted us to be sad and demoralized but we are filled with fervor and enthusiasm and patriotism.

indians have a habit of making up things, and not listening to others, they are very self centric people.

 

[Stephen Cohen]

It was a skirmish intended to take pressure of the Indian momentum off of the Gibraltar troops, it was more sacrificial than anything.

Gibraltar was failing to make any headway because the invaders were just armed with
Infantry weapons

Hence Grand Slam was launched to TAKE AKHNOOR
It was a Full Armoured and Artilerry Offensive

 

[Icarus]

@Horus @Icarus @Irfan Baloch

Would you be KIND enough to explain the DIFFERENCE between
Operation GIBRALTAR and Operation Grand Slam

Operation Gibraltar: Infiltrate troops into IoK to prepare the ground for local insurrection.
Operation Grandslam: Four phase military initiative intended to draw Indians away from withdrawing Gibraltar troops by making a move for Akhnur and Rajauri.

 

[ito]

1. India indeed attacked in response to Op Gibraltar, there's no debate there.
2. If India did not intend to take Lahore then why did it bother to mobilize an entire Strike Corp in three prongs? Surely it wasn't for the giggles.
3. Hostile population? That's the whole point of an occupation, you take over a city with a hostile population and then tell them to leave, imposing curfew for the rest.
4. Once again, If Pakistan intended to "Capture Kashmir", we wouldn't have sent in a coy size strength.

As I said before attacking Lahore was India's way of saying any war on Kashmir will not be limited to Kashmir. I would not like to go into 'mobilizing entire an entire Strike Corp in three prongs", because that was a tacit.

As on Lahore, India of 1965 was a hugely different country than it today...that was Nehru's country and today it is Modi's. 1965 India was inward looking, non aligned and had an imagine of a peaceful country given that India just won the independence through non violent methods. This imagine goes against holding Lahore. I personally believe holding such city as Lahore is impossible given the hostile population and also Pakistan government would not have sit ideally if such an important city is in enemies hand.

Pakistan strategy has always been the same to capture Kashmir since the beginning...In 1948 it sent 'irregulars', again in 1965 it sent 'irregulars', and in 1998 Kargil it sent 'irregulars'. The thinking behind such strategy is that India will keep the war local (confined to Kashmir)

 

[Stephen Cohen]

Since Gibraltar had been planned to succeed, there were no contingencies catering for its failure, another inexplicable oversight, since all militaries are taught to consider all possibilities and be prepared for the one they have not thought of. It was in this environment that Operation Grand Slam was launched to set things right.

SOURCE Operation Gibraltar: Battle that never was

 

[silent poison]

When were these ever Objectives? Your sources please? You must not know the course of the conflict right since this is probably the first time you ever heard of it so let me break it down for you.

1. The plan was never to capture Kashmir, if a few hundred men could do that, trust me we would have sent a few more in reserve. The idea was to spark insurrection in Kashmir which again was part of UNCONVENTIONAL STRATEGY.

2. There were never going to be moves on the city of Amritsar because it would have been difficult to hold and Pakistan with fewer troop needed to keep its lines fluid to adapt to Indian movements.

3. Delhi? Seriously? Are you suggesting that Pakistan intended to March on the Indian Capital? Either you are truly ignorant or severely underestimate our assessment of India's defence capability.

8Km from Lahore is still 8km from Lahore, if that is the criteria for anything, then I have spent a good number of my days stationed 80m from Uri sector, that's metres, I must be hailed as a hero in that case if I got so close to India. Remember 14.2 Bloody Miles.

1. Sir ,few hundred men's ???

Pakistan’s 12 Infantry Division, led by Maj Gen Akhtar Hussain Malik, launches extensive infiltration. Under Operation Gibraltar, 30,000 men are pushed across the ceasefire line (now called LoC) into J&K.

Manmohan Singh, commander of 191 Brigade Group, calls for IAF support when Pakistani tanks have reached 450 metres from Brigade HQ. IAF support arrives at 5 pm and bombs Pakistan army’s gun posts causing damage to all artillery ammunition lorries, tank ammunition. Brigade HQ is moved to Jaurian and given responsibility of defence of Akhnoor.

If the plan was not to Capture Kashmir i doubt what is the need to attack Akhnoor ... PS if PA was able to cover those 450m they would have cut IA in Kashmir totally after all the defence of bridge will fall .

2. Pakistan’s famed Patton tanks launch a tank offensive on Manawan in Khemkaran sector which ended in battle of Assal uttar . If not Amritsar what was the objective if PA wins that battle the next defence will only be in Jalandhar .

3. Actually if Jaipur defence falls ; there is nothing that can stop Pakistani thrust till New Delhi .

And rest i live in Ludhiana if Pakistani forces stands outside ITBP camp on highway i will accept that defence of My city has fallen . Now its exactly 8 Km from ITBP camp to my city . ITBP camp is on highway going to Hussainwali border... Just example .

 

[SrNair]

1. India attacked without formal declaration of hostilities, escalating the conflict from unconventional to conventional.
2. Launched Multi-pronged assaults against an unprepared Pak Army.
3. Was repulsed at all fronts.

Indian Objectives: Capture Lahore, Sialkot (Failed)
Pakistani Impromptu Objectives: Defend territory against Indian advance and engage in war of attrition (Successful)

This is the simplest terms I can explain it in.

It was the PA that started Operation Gibraltar.Not India.
So if you were unprepared for face possible consequences that is PA incompetence not us.

Indian Objective was to attack Lahore to pressurise PA in LoC not capturing it.And they were totally successful.

 

[Icarus]

1. lets not get that deep sir lets start with 1948 did you get kashmir for that

Still not related to 1965.

2.but shastri was PM of india which at that time was under serous food shortage and count deviate much needed supplies for war effort so he signed the declaration and got huge parts of pakistan kashmir and punjab and got back rann of kuchh from pakistan i say fair deal

Sure, humara kutta kutta aur apka kutta tommy.
BTW do mark out these "Huge Parts" for me.

3 now what about convention or non conventional war when your nation took the panga but count get kashmir or rann of kachh .... its not the war but its objectives and results that matter sirji

Both of which you have wrong.

4 so according to you a publick holiday is worth enof to comensate of a consatant fear of war loss of half of nation , , loss of billions of dollars and death of innocent civillians and millitarry personall on both sides + taking into account the so called fighting as a paid help for USA , thousands getting killed deu to releigous extremism and socio economick problems , kalashinkov culture , drugs drone strikes , seucide bomb attacks and target killings and a very very acute problem of illitrecy, class strugglle ,corruption , incomptence and what not

Bhai are you on bhang? Yeh sara 65 main kab hua tha? Did martians also attack?

and then your whole nation is made to beleve that taking pange with india was always justified as it in the end as it gave you one publick holliday .... no wonder pakistan is in a state where it cant find a way owt of all the mess it itself created for itself

Thank you for your insight. I'll relay it to the policy makers.

so much for a publick holiday

Once again, your post is shallow with no argument. @ito and @Stephen Cohen have an argument to make, you are a bag of wind and little more.