We have tried to seal the border with Afghanistan, it is the Afghanis that aren't ready, because they dream of a Pashtunistan with Pakistan's KPK and FATA regions in it. Karzai claimed the Durand Line is invalid and evil. We respect the territorial integrity of Afghanistan, they don't respect ours. Both Pakistan's and Afghanistan's problems would be solved if this border was sealed. FATA would become mainstream Pakistan like KPK, and Afghanistan would be stabilized. So please, blame the American forces and the Afghan leadership, Pakistan has always been ready.
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We have tried to seal the border with Afghanistan, it is the Afghanis that aren't ready, because they dream of a Pashtunistan with Pakistan's KPK and FATA regions in it. Karzai claimed the Durand Line is invalid and evil. We respect the territorial integrity of Afghanistan, they don't respect ours. Both Pakistan's and Afghanistan's problems would be solved if this border was sealed. FATA would become mainstream Pakistan like KPK, and Afghanistan would be stabilized. So please, blame the American forces and the Afghan leadership, Pakistan has always been ready.
If you mean 'facts' as in articles by Ahmed Rashid, Ahmed Qureshi, Zaid Hamid, Bharat Verma; then I'm happy I don't have their speculations & drivel in my head. I think you have run out of arguments, & you couldn't present one piece of credible evidence that unequivocally proved that the Pakistani government aided & supported the Taliban.
Hamid Gul has explicitly said he did not support the Taliban, and never has Pakistan or the Pakistani ISI. No high ranking official in Pakistan or anywhere else has explicitly claimed that the Pakistani government has aided the Taliban. Musharraf has pointblank denied it as well. I repeat, Kashmir is a different matter, Afghanistan is not related to it. It has been proven, by confirmation from Musharraf & other people in history that Pakistan has indeed aided the Kashmiri Mujahideen, as it views Kashmir as a part of Pakistan, & their struggle against the Indian occupied forces legitimate. Afghanistan is not a part of Pakistan, so the Pakistani government sees no reason to support the Taliban.
I understand your point matey, and its a genuine concern. But lets put it this way, if Pakistan wanted to seal its border with India, but Indians were opposing it, would it stop Pakistan from sealing the border? It wouldn't right?
FATA is Pakistan's integral part and its responsibility. As i said earlier if Pakistan makes its mind up to seal the border no country let alone Afghanistan can stop them. Its your right as a sovereign country.
Good discussion nevertheless. Am out for now.
I understand your point matey, and its a genuine concern. But lets put it this way, if Pakistan wanted to seal its border with India, but Indians were opposing it, would it stop Pakistan from sealing the border? It wouldn't right?
FATA is Pakistan's integral part and its responsibility. As i said earlier if Pakistan makes its mind up to seal the border no country let alone Afghanistan can stop them. Its your right as a sovereign country.
Good discussion nevertheless. Am out for now.
Just read my last post # 513, and respond to it. Thanks
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No one will post a scanned copy of the agreement signed betweeen the ISI and Talibunny or the receipts for the money transferred.
By asking for these you are just avoiding the facts by bringing in improbable arguments.
And for its sake what is the proof that India is meddling in Balochistan or RAW is popping up blasts in your country that you guys so fondly believe ?
BTW as I said Read up to Hamid Gul - former DG,ISI.
Sorry for going back on my previous word. I am outta here
Hamid Gul has explicitly said he did not support the Taliban, and never has Pakistan or the Pakistani ISI. No high ranking official in Pakistan or anywhere else has explicitly claimed that the Pakistani government or intelligence agencies has supported the Taliban. Musharraf has pointblank denied it as well. All international officials have claimed that the Pakistani government & intelligence must do more to clamp down terror networks, no one has ever claimed that the Pakistani government has ever supported the Taliban. Big difference. Something I mentioned before as well. You are basing your opinion on a few conspiracy theory reports you read. No high ranking official from any country has ever said that the Pakistani government or intelligence agency supports the Taliban. They say Pakistan needs to do more to eliminate the safe havens for the Taliban.
I repeat, Kashmir is a different matter, Afghanistan is not related to it. It has been proven, by confirmation from Musharraf & other people in history that Pakistan has indeed aided the Kashmiri Mujahideen, as it views Kashmir as a part of Pakistan, & their struggle against the Indian occupied forces as legitimate. Afghanistan is not a part of Pakistan, so the Pakistani government sees no reason to support the Taliban. Hence, the Pakistani government or intelligence agency has never been accused of creating or supporting the Taliban. All that has been said by high ranking officials is, Pakistan needs to do more. The talk of the Pakistani government & intelligence supporting the Taliban is nothing but speculation & fantasies by journalists & analysts.
I was raising a slightly different point than what Vinod2070 and Karthic Sri were. I have zilch knowledge about good taliban, bad taliban or Northern Alliance, so I never brought those in my discussion. SO can't reply to post #513.
Ponder over what I was trying to say all this time.
I was raising a slightly different point than what Vinod2070 and Karthic Sri were. I have zilch knowledge about good taliban, bad taliban or Northern Alliance, so I never brought those in my discussion. SO can't reply to post #513.
Ponder over what I was trying to say all this time.
Please also read Post # 517. No need to reply to it
. I think you'll understand where I'm coming from.
A request to the moderators: please don't delete this thread. I think it conclusively proves & dissolves all myths that the Pakistani government had created the Afghan Taliban, or has supported it in anyway, & that talk about strategic depth is all bull....
Chinese-Dragon
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No, I don't think there is any shared race. Except for the fact that India has some Punjabis, etc.
Personally I think Pakistanis look more Middle Eastern or Central Asian.
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Personally I think you do not know about the demography in Pakistan.
You cannot find a single race/ethnicity in India that is not found in Pakistan as well, in one way or the other. May be you do not know that Islam came to India way before Qasim, and it was Eastern India. May be you do not know that they were Bihari Muslims who were main financiers and instrumental in the revolt in today's northwest Pakistan during the British era. May be you do not know that in India there are Muslims in every corner, of every ethnicity and relate to their first or second cousins in Pakistan.
Please take my humble request - read some history of India, specifically 1800 AD onwards.
Chinese-Dragon
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I never claimed to be an expert regarding issues in the subcontinent.
Those were just my personal opinions.
From our Pakistani friends, I have read that the only shared ethnicity (in significant numbers I mean) between the two nations is Punjabi.
And they only make up a few percent of India's population.
I could be wrong of course, I'll try to read up on it more.
False. You do not find Marathis, people from Tamil Nadu, Karnataka, Assam, Manipur, Orissa etc in Pakistan. Likewise, you do not find Tajiks, Chitralis, Baltis, Kalashas, Balochis in India. There are some common races you find in India, Pakistan such as: Punjabis, Sindhis, Gujaratis, Kashmiris, Biharis, even Bengalis (yes, there are Bengalis in Pakistan too), Pakhtuns (yes, there are a few ethnic Pakhtuns in India as well, such as Irfan Pathan & Yusuf Pathan) and some races from the South (some people from South India form the minority Hindu community in Sindh, Pakistan). But there are still some races not found in either country that are found in the other.
Remember, India and Pakistan are artificial countries formed in 1947. The 4 provinces in Pakistan have very little in common with each other, except the common Indus Valley Heritage & religion (for the most part). North India was initially inhabited by Aryans, South India by Dravidians; and today, most parts of India have some kind of Aryan-Dravidian mix over all the years. There was no one country called India or Pakistan before 1947. It was called the Indian subcontinent. There was no one ruler of the whole Indian subcontinent. Punjab belonged to Punjabis, Bihar to Biharis, Gujarat to Gujaratis, Bengal to Bengalis, Kashmir to Kashmiris etc. These states each had their own, separate rulers. The Indian subcontinent before 1947 was not one country, but more like Europe: a continent.
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