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[53fd]

You are in denial and take pride in arguing and not exactly comprehending what is being said. Instead of refuting everything being said go do some research your self. Watch Mushraf' and Gul's interviews and come back. Also be honest to yourself. Such redundant arguments don't really make any sense.

I have watched Musharraf and Gul's interviews. Not once has Gul said that he actually aids the Taliban or supports it in anyway, he says he feels a moral affinity with them, but never has he supported them. Musharraf has said the same thing, that Pakistan has never supported the Afghan Taliban, and are always fighting it. However, Kashmir is a different issue as it's not India's territory, its a disputed territory, it's Indian occupied Kashmir, and I (and Musharraf) admit Pakistan has been involved in that. Pakistan does not consider Kashmiri Mujahideen to be terrorists, but fighting for the rightful end of the Indian occupation over their territory. But please, don't divert the issue to Kashmir here, it's a disputed territory while Afghanistan is an internationally recognized border. We are talking about Afghanistan, not Kashmir. So please stick to the topic. Thanks.

 

[Vinod2070]

If Pakistan wanted to support Pashtuns and gain the support of the Afghan Pashtuns, it would have supported Najibullah. It didn't. So your conclusion that Pakistan supports the Pashtuns is wrong. Pakistan also supported Ahmed Shah Masood (Tajik, non-Pashtun) against Najibullah.

I have already explained it. Pakistan doesn't support all Pushtuns, just those it thinks are more pliable or at least will help advance Pakistani goals.

No need to keep on repeating the same thing.

Why do you think the Tajiks became so anti-Pakistan. It is another matter that even Afghan Pushtuns also became anti Pakistan later.

Your conclusions are wrong as I have explained to you over quite a few posts. You have tried to make your own simplified connections between past and present, but you are factually and historically wrong on many accounts. It's not a good thing reading conspiracy theories and believing in them when you do not the crux of the Afghan-Pakistan situation. I hope I have clarified your misconceptions and errors.

I have seen nothing new from you. You seem to be just in denial of obvious facts.

But its OK. We can just chose to disagree.

 

[53fd]

See it doesn't matter if the people of FATA liked the integration of KPK into Pakistani law or not. Do you see whats happening here? A few thousand gun trotting tribals are making the whole country hostage. Its time to show these people who the boss is. If FATA people don't see themselves as Pakistanis, its high time to give them a belting and ensure that they see themselves as Pakistani. Whats in the blood of a Pashtun should not be bigger than the law of the land.

Remember, it is not that easy. Your 7 sister states have not been integrated into mainstream India as well. It's not a matter of FATA liking KPK's integration into mainstream Pakistan or not, it's about not pushing FATA enough that they start asking for their independence, especially when they have an open border with Afghanistan, they live by the same tribal laws, they don't accept the Durand Line, they think like Afghanistan and not like Pakistan. On top of that, the Pashtun nationalist movements spawning from Afghanistan into the FATA regions of Pakistan, & Pakistan fighting in FATA (where it had never in its history sent 1 Pakistani troop into FATA before 9/11) to root out the terrorists. I think it is perfectly sensible of Pakistan not to push too hard, we don't want another region to split from our country.

See if Pakistan wanted to seal the border it should have pestered the US, the NATO the whole word about it. Just saying it once that yes we want to seal the border doesn't mean anything. If Pakistan starts sealing its border today, do you think any country will oppose it?

The Afghans have already opposed this, and they will continue to do so. Afghanistan is equally involved in this. The Afghan Pashtuns are 40% of Afghanistan, and they dream of one day integrating FATA and KPK into Afghanistan to become about 70% of Afghanistan's total population, and completely outnumber other ethnicities in Afghanistan, and form their Pashtunistan.

 

[Vinod2070]

There is no comparison of any Indian state with FATA!

We have the same rules across India and no part of India is out of bounds for any Indian institutions.

 

[53fd]

Why do you think the Tajiks became so anti-Pakistan. It is another matter that even Afghan Pushtuns also became anti Pakistan later.

Who said Tajiks are anti-Pakistan? The member 'Ahmad' here is Tajik, & he respects Pakistan's territorial integrity. Most Tajiks respect Pakistan's territorial integrity. Some Afghan Tajiks might not like Pakistan much because they might think the small number of Pakistani Tajiks that live close to the Wakhi Corridor are oppressed by the powerful Pakistani Pashtuns. But most Afghan Tajiks respect Pakistan. Most Afghan Pashtuns (including many of the Taliban) do not. Another example of one of your wrong conclusions. You should go to Pashtunforums, they have Pashtuns from Pakistan's FATA area and Afghan Pashtuns, and they are talking about breaking up Pakistan to form a greater Afghanistan or Pashtunistan. It's like saying Indian Muslims should love Pakistan, but most hate it.

 

[53fd]

There is no comparison of any Indian state with FATA!

We have the same rules across India and no part of India is out of bounds for any Indian institutions.

Almost 40% of total India's land is not under the control of the Central government.

 

[KS]

Almost 40% of the Indian land is not under the control of the Central government.

Please post that India map (which you Pakistanis love so much) with the Red,Orange and Yellow showing Most, Moderate and Slightly Maoist affected areas.

I would love to debunk it again

 

[Vinod2070]

Who said Tajiks are anti-Pakistan? The member 'Ahmad' here is Tajik, & he respects Pakistan's territorial integrity. Most Tajiks respect Pakistan's integrity. Some Afghan Tajiks might not like Pakistan much because they might think the small number of Pakistani Tajiks that live close to the Wakhi Corridor are oppressed by the powerful Pakistani Pashtuns. But most Afghan Tajiks respect Pakistan. Most Pashtuns (including many of the Afghan Pashtuns) do not. Another example of one of your wrong conclusions. You should go to Pashtunforums, they have Pashtuns from Pakistan's FATA area and Afghan Pashtuns, and they are talking about breaking up Pakistan to form a greater Afghanistan or Pashtunistan. It's like saying Indian Muslims should love Pakistan, but most hate it.

Its not about one individual.

Would you say that the NA dominated government is pro Pakistan or Anti Pakistan?

You are frankly lacking such basic facts that I don't see any point in arguing anymore. Please continue. I am out.

 

[53fd]

Please please post that India map with the Red,Orange and Yellow showing Most, Moderate and Slightly Maoist affected areas.

I would love to debunk it again

No thanks, the topic being discussed here is Afghanistan and Pakistan, not Kashmir or India.

 

[KS]

No thanks, the topic being discussed here is Afghanistan and Pakistan, not Kashmir or India.

So how about a reply for post # 464.

You should "Do More"

 

[53fd]

Its not about one individual.

Would you say that the NA dominated government is pro Pakistan or Anti Pakistan?

You are frankly lacking such basic facts that I don't see any point in arguing anymore. Please continue. I am out.

Tell me, what is a NA dominated government? Any examples? I think you mean Karzai (a Pashtun nationalist) has a lot of Tajiks & Uzbeks in his government. Karzai is a famous Pashtun nationalist, and has the support of landlords, not the support of the common people. I don't see the connection you make between a NA government and Pakistan. I don't even know what a NA government is. The leader of the NA Ahmed Shah Masood was being supported by Pakistan against Dostum and Najibullah. Ahmed Shah Masood is not just one person, he was the leader of the Northern Alliance. Big difference.

 

[KS]

Tell me, what is a NA dominated government? Any examples? I think you mean Karzai (a Pashtun nationalist) has a lot of Tajiks & Uzbeks in his government. Karzai is a famous Pashtun nationalist, and has the support of landlords, not the support of the common people. I don't see the connection you make between a NA government and Pakistan. I don't even know what a NA government is. The leader of the NA Ahmed Shah Masood was being supported by Pakistan against Dostum and Najibullah. Ahmed Shah Masood is not just one person, he was the leader of the Northern Alliance. Big difference.

Masood was never fully supported by the ISI even though he was the most efficient mujaheddin commander.

The ISI loved Gulbuddin Hekmatyar aka Rocket Hekmatyar and he was trhe single largest recipient of the CIA-ISI fund for fighting the Soviets.

This was till the Taliban sprang up. And everyone knows Pakistani collusion in the suicide bombing of Masood.

 

[Vinod2070]

Tell me, what is a NA dominated government? Any examples? I think you mean Karzai (a Pashtun nationalist) has a lot of Tajiks & Uzbeks in his government. Karzai is a famous Pashtun nationalist, and has the support of landlords, not the support of the common people. I don't see the connection you make between a NA government with Pakistan. I don't even know what a NA government is. The leader of the NA Ahmed Shah Masood was being supported by Pakistan against Dostum and Najibullah.

OK, some examples:

Abdullah Abdullah (the ex foreign minister of Afghanistan), what do you think of his views about Pakistan? Do some reading.

Saleh, the former Afghan intelligence chief, read his views on Pakistan or watch some videos on youtube.

Heck, read what your own Pakistani compatriots have to say about the issue, your own opinion makers.

You are so out of touch my friend.

Or, in denial.

 

[Vinod2070]

Tell me, what is a NA dominated government? Any examples? I think you mean Karzai (a Pashtun nationalist) has a lot of Tajiks & Uzbeks in his government. Karzai is a famous Pashtun nationalist, and has the support of landlords, not the support of the common people. I don't see the connection you make between a NA government and Pakistan. I don't even know what a NA government is. The leader of the NA Ahmed Shah Masood was being supported by Pakistan against Dostum and Najibullah. Ahmed Shah Masood is not just one person, he was the leader of the Northern Alliance. Big difference.

You keep on repeating the same thing. That support was overtaken by events and he had become anti Pakistan after the war was over. Just try and keep current with the events.

The NA has been Anti Pakistan since then. They have not forgotten what your Taliban proxies did to them.

 

[A1Kaid]

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