Battle over the High Seas for Indian Surveillance Requirement

[Contrarian]

Battle over the High Seas for Indian Surveillance Requirement

http://www.defensenews.com/aero/story.php?id=2539163

After years of negotiations over its future maritime patrol aircraft, the Indian Navy has decided neither the Lockheed P-3C Orion nor the Ilyushin Il-38 are advanced enough to meet its needs, a senior Indian Navy official said last month.
Instead, Navy officials are inviting Boeing’s P-8I and EADS CASA’s Airbus A319 to be tested in a still-open 2005 tender for eight aircraft . A decision is expect by year’s end.
The tender, whose value is estimated at $800 million, seeks an aircraft that can serve for 25 years; endure a year-long trial period; fly for eight hours without refueling; hunt submarines; and carry mines, torpedoes and anti-ship missiles.
France’s Dassault also bid last April, but was not selected for further study.
The P-8, which is being built for the U.S. Navy, is a variant of the 737-800. India is being offered the P-8I, the first variant offered internationally, said Tim Norgart, director of business development, Airborne, Anti-Submarine Warfare & Intelligence, Surveillance and Reconnaissance Systems. The P-8I has a range of 4,800 nautical miles, or double that with aerial refueling, Norgart said.
The EADS CASA entrant has a 2,000-nautical-mile range and cannot be refueled in the air, said Fernando Ciria, head of marketing, EADS CASA Mission Aircraft.
“We convert the A319 with sonar launchers, bomb bay, missile sensors, radar, [infrared sensors]. This is the first time EADS has modified an A319 for this purpose,” Ciria said.
The plane would get the Fully Integrated Tactical System, which is in use on the EADS CASA C-295, C-212, CN-235 and P-3 Orion.
Ciria said offset arrangements may give the edge to EADS.
“The first prototypes will be built in Spain and remainder built in India. We are doing a survey of local industries for the offset of the remaining eight,” said Ciria.
Boeing is in discussions about offsets, but nothing has been agreed to at this point, said Norgart. “Discussions on incorporating the Indian equipment is still ongoing,” he said.
Boeing may not be able to provide an actual P-8I aircraft in time for this year’s trials; Norgart said the company may send a “representative aircraft” instead. He said the P-8A aircraft for the U.S. Navy is at the critical review stage in March, with operational capability beginning in 2013.

 

[Contrarian]

Boeing to showcase maritime patrol plane to Indian Navy

US aerospace major Boeing will 'very shortly' showcase the capabilities of its maritime patrol aircraft, now under development, to the Indian Navy that is currently evaluating the platform, the company said Wednesday.

US aerospace major Boeing will 'very shortly' showcase the capabilities of its maritime patrol aircraft, now under development, to the Indian Navy that is currently evaluating the platform, the company said Wednesday.

'The P8I is a next generation maritime surveillance aircraft and will be able to meet the requirements of the Indian Navy for the next 50 years,' Tim Norgart of Boeing Integrated Defence Systems that is developing the aircraft, told reporters during the ongoing Aero India show here.

'We are in discussions with the Indian Navy and will be finalising the dates for field evaluation trials in the very near future,' added Norgart, a former US Navy aviator who is director of business development for Boeing IDS's Airborne Anti-Submarine Warfare and Intelligence, Surveillance And Reconnaissance Systems division.

The P8I, a customized version for the Indian Navy, is based on the hugely successful Boeing-737 commercial airliner. The navy had in November 2006 expressed an interest in the aircraft as a replacement for its existing fleet of Il-38 aircraft that are nearing the end of their service life.

The navy has also sought from Lockheed Martin details about P3C Orion aircraft that the Pakistan Navy currently operates.

The Indian Navy plans to initially buy eight aircraft and possibly a few more later.

Since the P8I is currently at what is termed the 'critical design stage' after which the US Navy will give its go ahead for serial production, the aircraft's flight characteristics will be demonstrated on a 'representative aircraft' and its mission system equipment on a truck mounted trailer.

'We expect the trials to last from a week to two weeks, after which we will proceed to the next stage of negotiations,' said Norgart, who has logged some 4,500 hours on the P3C Orion.

'The Orion's a wonderful aircraft but its technology is 50 years old. What we are offering is next generation technology for whose development the US Navy has paid for and which the Indian Navy would not have to shoulder,' added the official, who, however, refused to divulge figures.

Contending that the P8I was the 'world's most technologically advanced' aircraft of its type, Norgart said it 'combines superior performance and proven reliability with the world's most advanced mission system, accommodates use of indigenous systems, and has significant industrial participation prospects'.

The participation prospect refers to transfer of technology to Indian industries and their participation in the manufacturing process if Boeing wins the order.

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NEWS/newsrf.php?newsid=8199

 

[centaurzhere.abdul]

The Answer is simple.Just go for some Damm P-8s.

 

[Adux]

No Doubt, the weakest link in the Indian Navy is its Aerial Survilience

 

[Contrarian]

But i think the contract will go the 'new' P3C's sadly because the P-8 will take a lot of time to get into production for India, not before 2015

 

[Bull]

But i think the contract will go the 'new' P3C's sadly because the P-8 will take a lot of time to get into production for India, not before 2015

Then why dont get the IL- XX. Yankees stuff should be bought only if its providing cutting edge. I beleive P3Cs dont offer any such.

 

[Neo]

Then why dont get the IL- XX.

Haven't you just upgraded the existing fleet of Il-38's and ordered some more?

Yankees stuff should be bought only if its providing cutting edge. I beleive P3Cs dont offer any such.

P-3C may be an old design, its still considered one of the best. Its in service with strongest navies including USN, Japan, Germany and Australia.

 

[Adux]

Very true Neo, But Indian Navy have specific targets, as well as they have the reputation of being the most proffessional of all the three services

 

[Contrarian]

Haven't you just upgraded the existing fleet of Il-38's and ordered some more?

Yes, the Il's have been upgraded with the Sea Dragon suite. Its pretty good, they changed the aircraft completely apart from the engines and the airframe.

P-3C may be an old design, its still considered one of the best. Its in service with strongest navies including USN, Japan, Germany and Australia.

Yes, but then again its OLD. That is why its being replaced, and Australia and USN are committed to the P-8. And probably Japan.
What LM is offering India is a completely different P3C from the normal one. Its got modifications in the air frame as well apart from the best sensors that can be put on board. But its still an old design. P-8 is the latest and greatest.

Bull, the P-8 is indeed cutting edge, and no Russian design comes even close to it. As for the P3C's, what is actually in the trial right now is a different P3C from the normal one, but i agree, if its P3C, we might as well get the new Il.