Battle of Asal Uttar - 56 years ago

[Tornado23]

Pakistan on the other hand was like a pampered child of USA with hi-tech weapons in hand..... For an example first 155 mm artillery India could brought in service in 80s in the form of boforse guns wheras Pakistan was using 155 mm artillery since 60s....

You had centurion mk7 with a stabilised 105mm rifled gun. The m48 had a 90mm gun that wasnt stabilised.

The amx 13 and centurion mk7 could penetrate the frontal hull and turret of the m48. You also had the amphibious Pt76 which had a stabilised 76mm gun which can fire a heat fs shell.

The indian air force had hawker hunters which were faster than the f86. They had gnats which were more maneuverable than the f86. You had mig21 which were better than the f104.

Wanna cry about technology? Open your eyes.

 

[SecularNationalist]

A few months later the tank started housing a squadron of local F-16s (drug addicts) who used to take refuge inside during their daily drug fuelled sorties. It (tank) was also rumored to have accommodated few love birds as well

The battle also witnessed the personal bravery of an Indian soldier, Abdul Hamid,

Poor fella suffered for nothing.
The same country he fought was going to elect a leader like modi and to introduce draconian anti Muslim acts like CAA .
By hook or by crook Jinnah was always right.

 

[Tornado23]

what is it https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gibraltar

What was the unprovoked skirmish in the rann of kutch? Picking and choosing wont get you far

 

[Raja Porus]

Sir I believe the GHQ instead of 11th ing div should be blamed for this mess up because since the Rann of Kutch incident, the armoured division had moved to Changa Manga Reserve Forest close its operational area and along with 7th Infantry Division carried out detailed planning and coordination as well as extensive border reconnaissance for a counteroffensive. The preferred option was the area of Fazilka where the terrain was suitable for tanks and lightly held by the Indian Army. However, when 7th Division was sent to Chhamb, GHQ made a last minute decision to group 11th Infantry Division with the armoured division and launch a counter-offensive from opposite Kasur. The armoured division was so unprepared for adopting this direction that as late as the 6th of September it did not have any maps of the area.

Again, bad recce....its nothing out of the world, just procedural mistakes...

 

[vishwambhar]

LOL another version of Indian story dinner in Delhi lol we defending ourselves ànd not had a offensive you invaded us firsts on international border as for your rants about IOK it was not your part ànd internationally dispute ànd read the history of 65 war from neutral source it was Nehru who want to open new front in kuch because your humiliation at north

For India Kashmir is always a part of India.... Just because internationally it's disputed territory expecting India won't open up a front accross international border at her own choice is not a good strategy..... blame your military planners for that mistake....both armies fought bravely but higher score goes to India..... Period....

 

[Neurath]

Wow! What was your gain in Battle of Chawinda?
But, let me add another - "Battle of Phillora"

Battle of Phillora is highly exaggerated in Indian accounts.

 

[Pak Nationalist]

I never said only we were in the possession of your territory.... If you read my earlier posts you will see I said war might be a stalemate but India's score on battlefield was huge compared to Pak.... If we compare the size of victory then India victory size will be bigger....

That too when India was not well equipped and just 3 years back tasted a defeat in fight with China and moral was really low....

Pakistan on the other hand was like a pampered child of USA with hi-tech weapons in hand..... For an example first 155 mm artillery India could brought in service in 80s in the form of boforse guns wheras Pakistan was using 155 mm artillery since 60s....

The USA embargoed Pakistani immediately. That weaponry was of little utility in the face of arms embargoes. We could not get spares even during the war. What pampered child? Look at Israel to know what a pampered child looks like whose tank supplies were replenished after taking attrition on the Egyptian front in 1973 DURING WAR. Again hyperbole to feel good about achieving a stalemate after achieving strategic surprise against a 4-5 times smaller country. You on the other hand were armed to the teeth by the Soviets while chanting the mantra of nonalignment post 65 (many do not recognize the heft you pulled during the cold war where you were aligned but feigned nonalignment, people talk about Pakistan playing double games but have little clue how you enjoyed the best of both worlds). Technological superiority is also subjective, in both naval and aerial domains. Our victory was in the fact that we not only beat the invasion back on select fronts where you initially made gains but actually went across and captured your territory. Contrast that performance with your own against the Chinese in 1962 where the entire war was fought on your territory.

 

[White and Green with M/S]

For India Kashmir is always a part of India.... Just because internationally it's disputed territory expecting India won't open up a front accross international border at her own choice is not a good strategy..... blame your military planners for that mistake....both armies fought bravely but higher score goes to India..... Period....

Yeah yeah whatever it was a draw ànd World didn't believe Indian version of the storytellers

 

[vishwambhar]

The USA embargoed Pakistani immediately. That weaponry was of little utility in the face of arms embargoes. We could not get spares even during the war. What pampered child? Look at Israel to know what a pampered child looks like whose tank supplies were replenished after taking attrition on the Egyptian front in 1973 DURING WAR. Again hyperbole to feel good about achieving a stalemate after achieving strategic surprise against a 4-5 times smaller country. You on the other hand were armed to the teeth by the Soviets while chanting the mantra of nonalignment post 65 (many do not recognize the heft you pulled during the cold war where you were aligned but feigned nonalignment, people talk about Pakistan playing double games but have little clue how you enjoyed the best of both worlds). Technological superiority is also subjective, in both naval and aerial domains. Our victory was in the fact that we not only beat the invasion back on select fronts where you initially made gains but actually went across and captured your territory. Contrast that performance with your own against the Chinese in 1962 where the entire war was fought on your territory.

Both armies fought bravely but I have observed that you guys have habit of saying that 4-5 times smaller country was fighting with a bigger country again and again..... Do you know what is the size of Israel??? Merely 20000 sq kms.... This is 15 times smaller than Indian state of Maharashtra and 50 times smaller than Egypt but I have never seen any Israeli making something big out of this.....

Firstly if bigger country is less armed than smaller country then smaller country can beat up the bigger country with ease.... Example Israel vs Egypt or other large Arab countries.....

Australia or Brazil are even bigger than India doesn't mean small France won't be able to beat them.... Tiny UK defeated Argentina 1000s of miles away and Argentina is almost the size of India.....

You are geographically small but hi-tech weapons gave you the conference that you will beat India and snatch Kashmir....

We were armed to teeth?? In 62 we got beaten up by China due to lack of good weapons and in just 3 years we got armed to teeth????

And until Zia Pak was as pampered as Israel.... You got F-16s, P3 orions, even E3 sentry awacs was being considered for you.... These are the weapons India could only dream that time....

 

[Pak Nationalist]

Both armies fought bravely but I have observed that you guys have habit of saying that 4-5 times smaller country was fighting with a bigger country again and again..... Do you know what is the size of Israel??? Merely 20000 sq kms.... This is 15 times smaller than Indian state of Maharashtra and 50 times smaller than Egypt but I have never seen any Israeli making something big out of this.....

Firstly if bigger country is less armed than smaller country then smaller country can beat up the bigger country with ease.... Example Israel vs Egypt or other large Arab countries.....

Australia or Brazil are even bigger than India doesn't mean small France won't be able to beat them.... Tiny UK defeated Argentina 1000s of miles away and Argentina is almost the size of India.....

You are geographically small but hi-tech weapons gave you the conference that you will beat India and snatch Kashmir....

We were armed to teeth?? In 62 we got beaten up by China due to lack of good weapons and in just 3 years we got armed to teeth????

And until Zia Pak was as pampered as Israel.... You got F-16s, P3 orions, even E3 sentry awacs was being considered for you.... These are the weapons India could only dream that time....

So many fallacious arguments in one post. Okay, let's begin.

Which country in the world has received the highest aid from Uncle Sam (not loans but aid which does not have to be repaid)? Saving you the trouble of looking for that, it is Israel. The US has supported Israel to the extent of arming it during wars as its war stocks underwent exhaustion, then it was pitted against sorry excuses for armies. Do you consider IA of the same caliber as the despotic Arab armies? I do not. Pakistan neither has the advantage of having a larger weak adversary (world's 2nd most populous nation) nor has it ever had access to American blind cheques that bailed it out when it was near buckling (1973).

As I said, the technological advancement element you speak of is highly subjective. Comparing the wealthiest nation-states heir to empires that ruled over the world with a third-world country like Pakistan, cool! Apart from armor, there was no clear advantage Pakistan had over you in 1965. Read again, I was talking about 1971 (armed to the teeth), and BTW, yes, your military had started undergoing modernization post-1962 debacle. Not sure how many colonies Argentines mastered across the globe; maybe you could enlighten us.

See the timeline of P3 Orion delivery. We never received E3 sentry AWACS, but we did receive sanctions once our utility was exhausted. Such an Israel we were. You invaded across IB seeing Kashmir was escaping your grasp. Our assumption was not much off the mark. What severing all-weather link to Kashmir from the Indian mainland would have meant should be clear to you. It was your desperation and recognition of this fact that made you cross the IB. Actions in Kashmir were taking place across a ceasefire line, but you violated the sanctity of an international border.

 

[Tornado23]

Both armies fought bravely but I have observed that you guys have habit of saying that 4-5 times smaller country was fighting with a bigger country again and again..... Do you know what is the size of Israel??? Merely 20000 sq kms.... This is 15 times smaller than Indian state of Maharashtra and 50 times smaller than Egypt but I have never seen any Israeli making something big out of this.....

Firstly if bigger country is less armed than smaller country then smaller country can beat up the bigger country with ease.... Example Israel vs Egypt or other large Arab countries.....

Australia or Brazil are even bigger than India doesn't mean small France won't be able to beat them.... Tiny UK defeated Argentina 1000s of miles away and Argentina is almost the size of India.....

You are geographically small but hi-tech weapons gave you the conference that you will beat India and snatch Kashmir....

We were armed to teeth?? In 62 we got beaten up by China due to lack of good weapons and in just 3 years we got armed to teeth????

And until Zia Pak was as pampered as Israel.... You got F-16s, P3 orions, even E3 sentry awacs was being considered for you.... These are the weapons India could only dream that time....

Israelis constantly bring up the fact that they were smaller and outnumbered during the war they fought.

Also operation nicklegrass? Pakistan had nowhere near the same support as israel did from the US.

Also lol. You had the better tech.

 

[vishwambhar]

Israelis constantly bring up the fact that they were smaller and outnumbered during the war they fought.

Also operation nicklegrass? Pakistan had nowhere near the same support as israel did from the US.

Also lol. You had the better tech.

You guys were enjoying night attack capacity since 60s.... So PAF used to attack us in the night also..... IAF always had to wait till the sunrise to get into action.... This resulted into heavy casualties of our soldiers during the night raids by Pak....

 

[Tornado23]

You guys were enjoying night attack capacity since 60s.... So PAF used to attack us in the night also..... IAF always had to wait till the sunrise to get into action.... This resulted into heavy casualties of our soldiers during the night raids by Pak....

PAF did not have any sorts of NVD on their combat aircraft during the 60s

 

[Zhukov]

Larney ki Zarurat kya thi dono ko in the first place.
55 saal baad bhi yehi behas ho rahi.
"Teacher Teacher us ne pehley mara tha"
and
"Mei bhi 2 lagai agey se uskey"

 

[Tomcats]

That's bad planning on our part, PAF was simply not asked for any support, we even didn't use our famous artillery in this entire operation... So all the attacks went in without artillery and air support.

What was the reasoning behind the lack of artillery support exactly? Were they unsure of positions thus artillery could potentially hit friendly or what because it seems odd why support would not be used.