What's new

Battle of ALCMs : BrahMos A vs Pakistan’s Ra’ad

Yj-12 or YJ-1000 Reverse Engineered KH-1

There is no evidence of that. What is YJ-1000 and KH-1, by the way?

Yj-18 Super sonic at terminal stage

Which allows the missile to perform maneuvers or targeting adjustments mid-course.

CX-1 Is Prototype

Possibly, but its appearance at trade shows suggest that it is more or less a finalized product.

CM-400 KG is not Proper Cruise Missile It follows Ballistic trajectory Makes it Vulnerable against Radars
Missile get is Speed And Terminal Stage

You are correct that the CM-400AKG is not a cruise missile, but its ability to evade detection lies in much more than mere flight regime. Keep in mind that the BrahMos also cruises at high altitudes during a portion of its flight profile.

"A list of system features appears to confirm an unusual characteristic associated with the CM-400. Unlike most high-speed cruise missiles, which fly at low altitude to avoid detection, the CM-400 uses “high [altitude] launching” to achieve “higher aircraft survivability”, according to the video".

A fighter such as the Chengdu/Pakistan Aeronautical Complex JF-17 would launch the missile at speeds between Mach 0.7 and M0.9 at an elevation between 26,200ft and 39,400ft, according to the AVIC specifications.


Source :
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/dubai-china-details-performance-of-carrier-killer-393301/
http://missilethreat.com/dubai-china-details-performance-of-carrier-killer-missile-for-jf-17/

Not exactly true; the sea-skimming flight path of the BrahMos/etc. does not augment its ability to evade radar. Instead, these are designed to evade physical defenses after the missile will surely be picked up by radar.
 
There is no evidence of that. What is YJ-1000 and KH-1, by the way?



Which allows the missile to perform maneuvers or targeting adjustments mid-course.



Possibly, but its appearance at trade shows suggest that it is more or less a finalized product.



You are correct that the CM-400AKG is not a cruise missile, but its ability to evade detection lies in much more than mere flight regime. Keep in mind that the BrahMos also cruises at high altitudes during a portion of its flight profile.



Not exactly true; the sea-skimming flight path of the BrahMos/etc. does not augment its ability to evade radar. Instead, these are designed to evade physical defenses after the missile will surely be picked up by radar.

Problem is it's speed will constant rather

Very different from CM-400 KG
Which acheived it speed at Terminal altitude

Makes it vulnerable against advanced system tije AEGIS or SM-3 or barak-8

India has similar weapon in its inventory who behave just like
CM-400KG
Shaurya Hypersonic Cruise missile hybrid is that can be converted to anti-ship role just like DF-21 ASBM


Also unlike China Pakistani's don't have

Advanced Chain of satellite surveillance and Means to accurately point out and
Predict the location of movable CBG group and correct impact point
Of missile that too have 60% probability of hitting a Target


I don't how a radar of a light weight fighter can do such multiple task jobs
Like Pakistani's poster Expect
 
Last edited:
What a silly comparison. Raad is deployed for over 10 years.
Brahmos air launched version is still undeployed and under test phase.

What a wonderful world, where everything that does not give satisfaction can be dismissed as silly.

The comparison states some of the shortcomings of Raad, and those reflect the age of the missile's initial deployment. An uptodate current version would have had fewer, or none, of those comparisons. If it is over 10 years old, quite obviously it is a product of those times; if it had been developed more recently, it would have overcome those shortcomings.
 
Quite a stupid comparisons frankly!! THE ALCM wont be battling it our out there every. It is not like which will beat what and terming it as a "Battle of ALCM" is absurd. At best one can compare the technical data of the missiles and see which one looks better and still you cannot compare them unless you take into considerations the intended use, the delivery platform, possible battle filed situation and scenario and what not!!

It is much more complicated than "Battle of ALCM"!
 
Problem is it's speed will constant rather

Very different from CM-400 KG
Which acheived it speed at Terminal altitude

Makes it vulnerable against advanced system tije AEGIS or SM-3 or barak-8

India has similar weapon in its inventory who behave just like
CM-400KG
Shaurya Hypersonic Cruise missile hybrid is that can be converted to anti-ship role just like DF-21 ASBM


Also unlike China Pakistani's don't have

Advanced Chain of satellite surveillance and Means to accurately point out and
Predict the location of movable CBG group and correct impact point
Of missile that too have 60% probability of hitting a Target


I don't how a radar of a light weight fighter can do such multiple task jobs
Like Pakistani's poster Expect

Pakistan is linked into China's Beidou

Your belief that having some air defence makes any offensive weapon obsolete is laughable

Its like saying you have a shield so I might as well throw my sword away because there is no way I can come up with some techniques or strategy to get around your shield and stab you through your face

You should be well aware Pakistan isnt some roob that we will not lethally counter everything india has

Pakistan also isnt like most countries where everything is announced, things just happen, missiles are tested suddenly, inducted without fanfare or official confirmation

The indian military knows th8s, fears this and is well aware of the consequences of war
 
Yeah, and your rants as too credible. Stop wasting everyone's time.



Already answered by @John Reese
And you are ranting about PAK military is ok:hitwall:, but i will show you a true face of yours are rant, what a double standard you have :hitwall::blah: huh! thats butthurts use BURNOL on your a$$ its a pain killer:lol::suicide::suicide2:
 
Pakistan is linked into China's Beidou

Your belief that having some air defence makes any offensive weapon obsolete is laughable

Its like saying you have a shield so I might as well throw my sword away because there is no way I can come up with some techniques or strategy to get around your shield and stab you through your face
Problem With you Guys are you Use More Rants Rather Post Genuine Technical Content In you Argument

Sir,China's Beidou is GPS It Only Helps in assessment coordinates of fixed targets Land Targets Like city or Base or AREA .Its Only Helpful Inertial guidance.

A CBG Group is Live And Maneuverable Target It constantly Moving For That you Need Chain System of Radars,[O]ver-the-horizon radars ,Advanced Sonars And ASW And Satellite Surveillance And Full Network Centric Environment And a Complete supporting command, control, communications, computers, intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance (C4ISR) technologies to Constantly Predict the virtual Assessment of Target And Prediction of Point of Impact Its Constant Process And very Complex In Itself .

This video help you further Although i don't have English version


Pakistan Not Even Race It Will Take you Decades To Develop Such Network Centric Environment And a Complete supporting command, control, communications, computers, intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance (C4ISR) technologies And It Very Constaly Affair

Due Really Believe A Pulse Doppler Radar KLj of JF-17 is Able To Perform All Network Centric role And C4ISTAR Command Control

This Debate Started After the Introduction DF-21 dubbed As "Carrier Killer"
This Topic Also Discussed to death by Professional Members Like @gambit in PDF

Here What Many Military Expert Say

As Erickson also noted, from the same text:


“The ASBM’s physical threat to U.S. Navy ships will be determined by the development of associated information processing systems and capabilities. This is part of a larger analytical challenge in which Chinese “hardware” continues to improve dramatically, but the caliber of the “software” supporting and connecting it remains uncertain and untested in war. The missile components of the DF-21D already are proven through multiple tests, but China’s ability to use the missile against a moving target operating in the open ocean remains unproven. The supporting command, control, communications, computers, intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance (C4ISR) technologies probably still lag behind the requirement to identify and track a U.S. aircraft carrier in real time under wartime conditions. Improving C4ISR capabilities, however, is a high priority in China’s military modernization program. U.S. countermeasures are another matter entirely: there is every reason to believe that they are already formidable.”

[O]ver-the-horizon radars used to detect ships can be jammed, spoofed, or destroyed; smoke and other obscurants can be deployed when an imagery satellite, which follows a predictable orbit, is passing over a formation of ships; the mid-course updates can be jammed; and when the missile locks on to the target its seeker can be jammed or spoofed.”


The Advance Systems Like SM-3 has an exoatmospheric kill vehicle, meaning that it can only intercept the missile during mid-course, when it’s traveling through space, so an Aegis ship escorting the target would have to fire its SM-3 almost immediately in order to intercept the missile before it reentered the atmosphere, or else there would have to be an Aegis ship positioned right under the flight path of the missile. The DF-21D may be equipped with decoys that are deployed in mid-course, making the SM-3’s job harder. U.S. Aegis ships are also equipped with the SM-2 Block 4 missile, which is capable of intercepting missiles within the atmosphere, but the DF-21D warhead will be performing some high-G maneuvers, which may make it impossible for the SM-2 Block 4 to successfully intercept it.
Barak-8 Is Also Similar System Which Range Envelope of 150 KM

How all this would work in reality is impossible to know in advance. Even after China has tested its missile against an actual ship, it won’t have tested it against one employing the full range of countermeasures that a U.S. ship or Any CBG Group would throw at it and, as you say, the U.S. Navy will never have tested its defenses against such an attack. Somebody is likely to be surprised and disappointed, but there is no way of knowing who.”

Indeed, as Cliff points out,CBG Group do have defenses, albeit against more traditional threats. However, it is important that we keep in mind that American carriers have been a target going back decades, and their defense has been something U.S. naval planners have been working on for many years.


 
Problem With you Guys are you Use More Rants Rather Post Genuine Technical Content In you Argument

Sir,China's Beidou is GPS It Only Helps in assessment coordinates of fixed targets Land Targets Like city or Base or AREA .Its Only Helpful Inertial guidance.

A CBG Group is Live And Maneuverable Target It constantly Moving For That you Need Chain System of Radars,[O]ver-the-horizon radars ,Advanced Sonars And ASW And Satellite Surveillance And Full Network Centric Environment And a Complete supporting command, control, communications, computers, intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance (C4ISR) technologies to Constantly Predict the virtual Assessment of Target And Prediction of Point of Impact Its Constant Process And very Complex In Itself .

This video help you further Although i don't have English version


Pakistan Not Even Race It Will Take you Decades To Develop Such Network Centric Environment And a Complete supporting command, control, communications, computers, intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance (C4ISR) technologies And It Very Constaly Affair

Due Really Believe A Pulse Doppler Radar KLj of JF-17 is Able To Perform All Network Centric role And C4ISTAR Command Control

This Debate Started After the Introduction DF-21 dubbed As "Carrier Killer"
This Topic Also Discussed to death by Professional Members Like @gambit in PDF

Here What Many Military Expert Say

As Erickson also noted, from the same text:


“The ASBM’s physical threat to U.S. Navy ships will be determined by the development of associated information processing systems and capabilities. This is part of a larger analytical challenge in which Chinese “hardware” continues to improve dramatically, but the caliber of the “software” supporting and connecting it remains uncertain and untested in war. The missile components of the DF-21D already are proven through multiple tests, but China’s ability to use the missile against a moving target operating in the open ocean remains unproven. The supporting command, control, communications, computers, intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance (C4ISR) technologies probably still lag behind the requirement to identify and track a U.S. aircraft carrier in real time under wartime conditions. Improving C4ISR capabilities, however, is a high priority in China’s military modernization program. U.S. countermeasures are another matter entirely: there is every reason to believe that they are already formidable.”

[O]ver-the-horizon radars used to detect ships can be jammed, spoofed, or destroyed; smoke and other obscurants can be deployed when an imagery satellite, which follows a predictable orbit, is passing over a formation of ships; the mid-course updates can be jammed; and when the missile locks on to the target its seeker can be jammed or spoofed.”


The Advance Systems Like SM-3 has an exoatmospheric kill vehicle, meaning that it can only intercept the missile during mid-course, when it’s traveling through space, so an Aegis ship escorting the target would have to fire its SM-3 almost immediately in order to intercept the missile before it reentered the atmosphere, or else there would have to be an Aegis ship positioned right under the flight path of the missile. The DF-21D may be equipped with decoys that are deployed in mid-course, making the SM-3’s job harder. U.S. Aegis ships are also equipped with the SM-2 Block 4 missile, which is capable of intercepting missiles within the atmosphere, but the DF-21D warhead will be performing some high-G maneuvers, which may make it impossible for the SM-2 Block 4 to successfully intercept it.
Barak-8 Is Also Similar System Which Range Envelope of 150 KM

How all this would work in reality is impossible to know in advance. Even after China has tested its missile against an actual ship, it won’t have tested it against one employing the full range of countermeasures that a U.S. ship or Any CBG Group would throw at it and, as you say, the U.S. Navy will never have tested its defenses against such an attack. Somebody is likely to be surprised and disappointed, but there is no way of knowing who.”

Indeed, as Cliff points out,CBG Group do have defenses, albeit against more traditional threats. However, it is important that we keep in mind that American carriers have been a target going back decades, and their defense has been something U.S. naval planners have been working on for many years.


The problem with you guys is that Pakistan for all its faults has a dedicated military that understands the threat it faces and has pulled out all the stops to overcome it. Apart from being a considerable military power in its own right it is also allied to nations such as China, Turkey etc who are also considerable military powers and have similar threat perceptions and who face the same challenges.

Simply saying Pakistan cannot create a NCE is lazy and I hope indian military planners are as lazy as you

I however understand that the indian military are well aware of the considerable military threat Pakistan poses and as a result is unwilling to bare the consequences even after a Mumbai, Parliament attavk or even a Pathankot
 
The problem with you guys is that Pakistan for all its faults has a dedicated military that understands the threat it faces and has pulled out all the stops to overcome it. Apart from being a considerable military power in its own right it is also allied to nations such as China, Turkey etc who are also considerable military powers and have similar threat perceptions and who face the same challenges.
So India Is All Alone ? we also have Large Numbers Allies Friends
US and India Relations are Example that We just Not make it sum Oral or support But we bake it authentic and
Official
LSA agreement is part of its we signed Treaty of Defense cooperation In Sea theatre

India is Part US-japan-India-Philippines circle recent Malabar Exercise is Part of it

We recently Signed Uni-lateral cooperation agreement with Iran-Afghan-India We Know how Indian afghan relations are

our relation is With Middle east ,EU
I however understand that the indian military are well aware of the considerable military threat Pakistan poses and as a result is unwilling to bare the consequences even after a Mumbai, Parliament attavk or even a Pathank
Unlike Pakistan Military culture of War Mongering and Unnecessary indulging in other country affairs and Threat of Nuclear Suicide.India Knows Its game We have thriving Economy and Highest Growth rate and FDI Inflow

We Have other ways to tackle your threats and Proxies .We Once championed this game of Proxy war
We have Instruments of your Own failure which helps US to give effective reply in same tone Which Pakistan Understands.And its happening your witnessed its Effects in your country
 
Back
Top Bottom