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Banu CTD Siege ends with 2 SSG personnel martyred along with all Terrorists

This is SSG man, they are dying like Sindh Police, where is their Top tier gear ? or training or drones ? or those useless robots with guns and other BS ? seriously weak Prisoners manage to took out 2 SSG, I doubt this SF can do anything behind enemy lines if War is to be fought with India, RSS chaddi Army with Lathi's will be giving our SSG tough times. Who is training them ? why is there are hundreds of SSG died in operations without a single inquiry or accountability on SSG training and top General ? oh wait....
They're deployed to the most dangerous missions, spl this urban combat scenario.. total kill zone, they're almost always massively disadvantaged storming well entrenched bad guys in rooms they're not super familiar with.. cut them some slack.
 
As per ISPR, one man disarmed his interrogator, opened fire and injured him and used his weapon to free 32 of his accomplices - then one armed person and 32 unarmed person raided the armory and secured their weapons.

In all of this time, what was CTD security up to?
 
As per ISPR, one man disarmed his interrogator, opened fire and injured him and used his weapon to free 32 of his accomplices - then one armed person and 32 unarmed person raided the armory and secured their weapons.

In all of this time, what was CTD security up to?
Complacency has become a national trait. I can point out some important areas where guards are almost always sleeping and you wonder how these places are safe. We, as a nation, do not want to work so this would continue to happen unfortunately as the other side know their war, their enemies and they are motivated and disciplined while we are still bickering over non issues.
 
@PanzerKiel and @Signalian If It was up to me I will keep the CTD personnel (if any one them survived) for debriefing to to rule out every possibility that one or more of the CTD personnel overpowered/ killed their colleague(S) and freed up the terrorists without the knowledge of their CTD colleagues.

From what I could understand from the DG ISPR statement which DAWN quoted, 1 was shaheed on the spot of the scuffle, one got injured but passed away in the hospital, and the remaining SM was shaheed in the op. So all the CTD personnel were shaheed. Was the SM on deputation to the CTD or was there for interrogation?
 
Gernails are milking the TTP for what it’s worth. Attacks by them flare up at convenient times and time pass clean up operations with grand names are conducted conveniently after some build up.

PA comes out looking like the blue eyed blonde haired champion

And the cycle repeats…

The question is why haven’t the TTP been dismantled? Why haven’t they been stopped from crossing the border if their goal is to contain them in Afghanistan?

Do any of you believe they can’t do it? :lol:

Of course people are going to blame Army leadership because they are sitting silent.

If there wasn’t a dictatorship in Pakistan, journalists would be pressing these gernails regarding the resurgence of TTP instead of hopping on their nuts and talking shit about PTI.

These gernails aren’t stupid.. they’re playing fucking games and expect awam to eat up whatever the **** they’re cooking.

ISI is not only good at making world chuttiya but Pakistani awam as well.

Exactly.

Terrorism in Pakistan has always been a fundamentally cross-border issue and, therefore, can essentially only be tackled by the Federal Government through its Armed Forces (ISI, SF, etc.) Could provincial police departments benefit from better funding, less political interference, etc.? Obviously. But they can't defeat terrorism on their own even if they become world-class. They will still remain a domestic LEA.

The Government should tell these colonial sepoys that XYZ needs to happen. Capacity-build if you have to, but get this shit done. Oh wait, nobody can tell GHQ anything... and the SC can't protect you... I forgot we live in a banana republic.

From what I could understand from the DG ISPR statement which DAWN quoted, 1 was shaheed on the spot of the scuffle, one got injured but passed away in the hospital, and the remaining SM was shaheed in the op. So all the CTD personnel were shaheed. Was the SM on deputation to the CTD or was there for interrogation?

The issue has often been that the press has always used the broad moniker "CTD" (as in the Provincial Police unit) even when there are joint ops or ones conducted solely by the ISI's CT Wing, an entirely separate entity. So, it's hard to say if the SM was (a) a retired army guy hired by the provincial CTD, (b) an ISI CT Wing guy, or (c) something else entirely.
 
You comment makes no logical sense or connection. Care to explain?
He is trying to say that, Pakistani SSG is equal to Delta Force and Seals which USA does not use or did not use in the situations you mentioned. His point can be argued based on training, equipment and structure of other highly trained units withing USA LEA and Mil, but main point remains the same, use of top tier elite SF, but again Pakistan has only one and USA has lots.
 
They're deployed to the most dangerous missions, spl this urban combat scenario.. total kill zone, they're almost always massively disadvantaged storming well entrenched bad guys in rooms they're not super familiar with.. cut them some slack.
SSG gets training to do different types of task, hostage rescue is one of them, that's what they are paid to do and that's what FAT belly Generals take a huge part of money from Awam's pocket to get them trained and get them best gear, and I haven't come across a single SSG operation in a long time where we haven't lost 1 soldier, Look at Americans/British SAS/ NATO SF units, and their training equip, SSG leadership is so dumb that they give them Black vests over camouflaged uniformed. These Prisoners are there for years and they were exhausted and beaten up, they over-powered CTD that's ok, but they manage to kill 2 SSG commando's ? how ? will there ever be a inquiry over the operation ? or loss of live for SSG ? no... because Army will award their parents some big Plot, flag and title of Shaheed and Sab khush ho jayen gay. I understand its a great honor to be Shaheed, but seeking Death and not giving your best is considered Suicide. Khalid Bin Waleed RA went into hundred of Battles where he fought the best of the best, he won every time and his biggest sorrow at the time of his death that he didn't die a Shaheed, So does that mean he should just drop his sword and fight with his bare hands ? or just charge on enemy lines without his Army, he would surely die and become a shaheed, but he become Ghazi. Our soldiers (No offense) are dumb who sometime in peruse of Shahdat make stupid decisions, when they should kill the enemy and live to fight another day and save more lives.

I know a inquiry on anything related to Army is a non starter, but if this was America Seals or SAS unit, and if they were losing their men in every small incident their would be a complete overhaul of their training, equipment and leadership, but unfortunately its Pakistan Army so no one gives a sh!t about some foot soldier who die, just call him a shaheed and call it a day to sell that manjan to Awam/his parents.
 
The last thing I need is someone telling me about those blacky laughing at us. We have seen them up and close and we have seen them shitting their pants when up against us on the LOC. That's what we do to them and been doing since 80s the reason they fear the SSG and do 1 hour shown on SSG on Indian today. Don't force me to post more unauthorised stuff here .

Your haterd for those blacky is understandable.

I believe if Rashid Minhas's instructor was some western stooge, the matter would have been suppressed and never granted the highest gallantry award.

Out of eleven Nishan-e-Haider in 75 years, none is granted on any other front except against India.

This is how you are programmed and this is how west finds it comfortable to deal with establishment and get its objectives.
 
SSG gets training to do different types of task, hostage rescue is one of them, that's what they are paid to do and that's what FAT belly Generals take a huge part of money from Awam's pocket to get them trained and get them best gear, and I haven't come across a single SSG operation in a long time where we haven't lost 1 soldier, Look at Americans/British SAS/ NATO SF units, and their training equip, SSG leadership is so dumb that they give them Black vests over camouflaged uniformed. These Prisoners are there for years and they were exhausted and beaten up, they over-powered CTD that's ok, but they manage to kill 2 SSG commando's ? how ? will there ever be a inquiry over the operation ? or loss of live for SSG ? no... because Army will award their parents some big Plot, flag and title of Shaheed and Sab khush ho jayen gay. I understand its a great honor to be Shaheed, but seeking Death and not giving your best is considered Suicide. Khalid Bin Waleed RA went into hundred of Battles where he fought the best of the best, he won every time and his biggest sorrow at the time of his death that he didn't die a Shaheed, So does that mean he should just drop his sword and fight with his bare hands ? or just charge on enemy lines without his Army, he would surely die and become a shaheed, but he become Ghazi. Our soldiers (No offense) are dumb who sometime in peruse of Shahdat make stupid decisions, when they should kill the enemy and live to fight another day and save more lives.

I know a inquiry on anything related to Army is a non starter, but if this was America Seals or SAS unit, and if they were losing their men in every small incident their would be a complete overhaul of their training, equipment and leadership, but unfortunately its Pakistan Army so no one gives a sh!t about some foot soldier who die, just call him a shaheed and call it a day to sell that manjan to Awam/his parents.
Sir, can you please explain how this operation could have been executed better?

Please discuss, area of operation, layout of the compound etc, tactics used by SSG and faults within and your suggested tactical approach. please do not forget the mindset, weapons and hostages used by terrorists.

I am just asking this to increase my understanding, because you seems to be an expert how you have written.

Thanks.
 
SSG gets training to do different types of task, hostage rescue is one of them, that's what they are paid to do and that's what FAT belly Generals take a huge part of money from Awam's pocket to get them trained and get them best gear, and I haven't come across a single SSG operation in a long time where we haven't lost 1 soldier, Look at Americans/British SAS/ NATO SF units, and their training equip, SSG leadership is so dumb that they give them Black vests over camouflaged uniformed. These Prisoners are there for years and they were exhausted and beaten up, they over-powered CTD that's ok, but they manage to kill 2 SSG commando's ? how ? will there ever be a inquiry over the operation ? or loss of live for SSG ? no... because Army will award their parents some big Plot, flag and title of Shaheed and Sab khush ho jayen gay. I understand its a great honor to be Shaheed, but seeking Death and not giving your best is considered Suicide. Khalid Bin Waleed RA went into hundred of Battles where he fought the best of the best, he won every time and his biggest sorrow at the time of his death that he didn't die a Shaheed, So does that mean he should just drop his sword and fight with his bare hands ? or just charge on enemy lines without his Army, he would surely die and become a shaheed, but he become Ghazi. Our soldiers (No offense) are dumb who sometime in peruse of Shahdat make stupid decisions, when they should kill the enemy and live to fight another day and save more lives.

I know a inquiry on anything related to Army is a non starter, but if this was America Seals or SAS unit, and if they were losing their men in every small incident their would be a complete overhaul of their training, equipment and leadership, but unfortunately its Pakistan Army so no one gives a sh!t about some foot soldier who die, just call him a shaheed and call it a day to sell that manjan to Awam/his parents.
I understand your anger, sadness and frustration at learning of losses of your best but that's what they sign up for.

USAF Para-rescue motto : that others may live

Indian Para Commandos (SF) - Balidaan (sacrifice)

cricket/football match nahi hai ki haaro ya jeeto, haath mila ke "well played" krenge last me.

it is what it is, man.. world's a nasty place.

faujis are generally good people, they understand..
 
He is trying to say that, Pakistani SSG is equal to Delta Force and Seals which USA does not use or did not use in the situations you mentioned. His point can be argued based on training, equipment and structure of other highly trained units withing USA LEA and Mil, but main point remains the same, use of top tier elite SF, but again Pakistan has only one and USA has lots.

I understood his point and wanted him to logically explain to me his thought process. Thank you for doing that for him. This is how a nation should work, we should support each other not become stupid to propaganda to hate each other.

Delta Force and SEAL (SEa, Air, Land for those who might've not known the acronym's meaning), have VERY specialized roles. The US has well over 100,000 "special forces". Our SSG are kind of equivalent to the SF's. Within which, we have done certain trainings for certain roles. But the US has a global reach and issues with various threat perceptions. The SEAL and DF's are trained on different scenarios with training budget more than our JFT program's investment annually ($ 500 million+ budget).

There shouldn't be any comparison made between earth and sky! Lastly, it's perfectly fine to ask, why always the Zaraar company? Well, majority (I'd say 90%) of Police / Anti Corruption / CTD / Excise and other law enforcement come in on corruption (paid posts, just one example, IK made over 12 billion rupees in "transfers" through his front men in his 4 years and everyone in power does it). So when these people who pay bribe to get a job, they aren't coming in to protect the Pakistanis or Pakistan. I've seen Police training and their work. They can't handle their handguns and old rifles in straight shoot properly. Asking them to take control here is like asking for mass casualties! They refuse to go into these situations and immediately "Sir, we need to bring in the Army" flag is raised and SSG dispatched!

The shahdat of 3 of our jawans (and a dozen injured) is a testament to Pak army's commitment to protect it's homeland and they give blood voluntarily without asking. While internet warrios continue to insult our Army by sitting overseas and some here who don't have balls to give a glass of water for the country let alone give their blood and lives!
 
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Sir, can you please explain how this operation could have been executed better?

Please discuss, area of operation, layout of the compound etc, tactics used by SSG and faults within and your suggested tactical approach. please do not forget the mindset, weapons and hostages used by terrorists.

I am just asking this to increase my understanding, because you seems to be an expert how you have written.

Thanks.

Everyone sitting on a keyboard can tell you "oh, this could've been done better", and some will even link it to IK being the PM and this would've gotten done better, etc, in Riasat-eMedina that he forgot to build and ran white collar corruption rings instead. These people watch too many American movies and obey too much political propaganda, the messages on this forum clearly show it.

In tight compound like situation, there isn't enough room to "hide and seek", deploy snipers, etc, etc. It's really you are putting your life at risk to face the bullets going directly in front of an AK-47. These situations aren't like LOC where there is so much open space and trees, etc. Lastly, can we improve on tactics and training? There is ALWAYS need for better training whether we are EU or China or Pakistan. But again, limited space, a few rooms and so many people hostages, don't leave much room for "hide and seek tactics". This scenario asks for sacrifices, period!

This op was done as a message that we've finally adopted and I've been saying to do it for a while "THERE WILL BE NO NEGOTIATIONS WITH THE TERRORISTS", period. We will give whatever blood we have to, but the terrorists will be dispatched to hell. If I was in Afghanistan sitting in some TTP/TLP's hideout, KNOW your days are numbered. The jawans who gave their lives, their blood is about to avenge and avenge HARD!
 
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