Bangladesh to graduate from LDC status in March: Tofail

[bluesky]

WHAT. ARE. YOU. ON. ABOUT? I am an atheist but you have one major thing confused here buddy. It's rarely IF EVER more religious=result poor life advancement. It's the complete opposite, more wealth, more life advancement=less people being religious. Less people being religious in just about every case is the result of wealth which opens education opportunities, it's almost never because of less religion that resulted in better life although if that in my opinion have better chance of advancing faster.

Those Cristians or whatever majority countries you are pointing to wasn't always so less religious, it's the result of them being so rich and getting more education. It wasn't because of less religiosity that they advanced.

However, the days of single ethnic times are done now you will at least need to be reasonably secular or have natural resources for advancement. These days, you can't deal in world stage where trade is major part of advancement to run your country like a religious fundamentalist and expect every country to work you.

You yourself is confused about what I am trying to say. Muslims spend time on religion matters every hour of the day and do not have the time and mind to study and learn. So, the IQ remains low. Christians celebrate Christmas and New Year but it is for just one week of the year. They celebrate it with fun and amusement.

What the Muslims do every day by going to a mazaar, peer and talking about Shaitan, after death snake bites, burning in the hell and so on. Does any other religion people, including Hindus, talk about all these supernatural things throughout the year that no one has really seen or experienced? You have to understand the difference between what I am saying and what you perceive.

 

[Homo Sapiens]

WHAT. ARE. YOU. ON. ABOUT? I am an atheist but you have one major thing confused here buddy. It's rarely IF EVER more religious=result poor life advancement. It's the complete opposite, more wealth, more life advancement=less people being religious. Less people being religious in just about every case is the result of wealth which opens education opportunities, it's almost never because of less religion that resulted in better life although if that in my opinion have better chance of advancing faster.

Those Cristians or whatever majority countries you are pointing to wasn't always so less religious, it's the result of them being so rich and getting more education. It wasn't because of less religiosity that they advanced.

However, the days of single ethnic times are done now you will at least need to be reasonably secular or have natural resources for advancement. These days, you can't deal in world stage where trade is major part of advancement to run your country like a religious fundamentalist and expect every country to work you.

Exactly. It is the more wealth and education which lead to less religion, not the other way around.This is the case with every country which are less religious today.

 

[Gibbs]

Watched that video when they posted it and have been following that channel since it's earlier days. Problem with your argument is, you post this video then literally ignore every point the video makes about resources, geographical advantage, climate advantage and so many other factors and then you go on about literally one point [religion] and over exaggerate it to the point whenever anyone mentions religion to development, it gets way too much overrated. As I said before, they didn't just 'become' less religious one day and started developing the next day. The more developed they got, the more education they got and the more they got to know more about the world and open up society, the less religious they become.

Even in the case of US, study after study shows young people are leaving religion in the highest numbers. US has one THE best geographical position, they never had any significant war on their soil with another country for centuries apart from a little one which is pearl harbour. AND that's one of the single biggest factor why the US is where it is today. When you don't face any war on your cities or countries development, you don't have to worry about rebuilding everything. Also since it's o big, it get it's way with other countries when having relations. You overstretch religious influence way too much.

Rhat was only in context to the argument done by @bluesky here, Ofcause there are numerous factors that contribute to poverty but organized religion and superficial belief in super natural keeps illiterate masses around the world in abject poverty

 

[bluesky]

Exactly. It is the more wealth and education which lead to less religion, not the other way around.This is the case with every country which are less religious today.

You are asking a typical question of chicken first or egg first. There is no solution to this question. I am against all those superstitions and pious pretensions of the Muslims. Christians, Hindus, Jews and Buddhists are not historically fanatic, but the Muslims have always been. It is Muslims, who always want to impose their faith and Cult on others.

What kind of education people here are talking about giving to the Muslims when the Madrassah teachers still teach their pupils that the Sun is revolving around the Earth, and science is wrong? So, it is not the Madrassah style of teaching that BD requires. It is secular education we need that relies on science and technology and observation of nature, solar system, galaxies etc., which is needed to upgrade the BD education level. It was before 1971, but is now being polarized with the govt. encouragement (probably).

Unfortunately, even the educated BD people in the PDF think that secular education cultivates Hinduism and Christianity, and is anti-Islam. If this is what they think, I do not see any prospect of giving the youth a good education in BD. It will not happen even BD makes a little more progress.

 

[bête noire]

You yourself is confused about what I am trying to say. Muslims spend time on religion matters every hour of the day and do not have the time and mind to study and learn. So, the IQ remains low. Christians celebrate Christmas and New Year but it is for just one week of the year. They celebrate it with fun and amusement.

What the Muslims do every day by going to a mazaar, peer and talking about Shaitan, after death snake bites, burning in the hell and so on. Does any other religion people, including Hindus, talk about all these supernatural things throughout the year that no one has really seen or experienced? You have to understand the difference between what I am saying and what you perceive.

What 'muslims'? Which ones are you talking about? I left Islam when I was around 15 and became full atheist around 17 or 18. Guess what changed in my whole life before and after leaving Islam and going on to becoming atheist, NOTHING. I didn't magically become more productive. What do you think people normally do in BD? What fantasyland do you think BD is where people go and pray 5 times a day? What percentage of school children and college students or young generation does anything of that sort you are so spouting? Not even 1% of the people I went to school and college with prays ever, let alone 5 times a day. Most doesn't even know how to pray in the first place. I never learned any Surah and whatever else whatever they say while doing prayers.

You seem to have isis and the Quranic ideal version of 'muslims' as if that's how the whole billion of muslims act and work and go by their day to day life like robots, no external emotions or actions occurs in muslims. The level of ignorance in your post is astounding to say the least.

And people of other religion don't force their religion onto others? I am done with your BS at this point. Not arguing this utter horseshit.

You are asking a typical question of chicken first or egg first. There is no solution to this question. I am against all those superstitions and pious pretensions of the Muslims. Christians, Hindus, Jews and Buddhists are not historically fanatic, but the Muslims have always been. It is Muslims, who always want to impose their faith and Cult on others.

What kind of education people here are talking about giving to the Muslims when the Madrassah teachers still teach their pupils that the Sun is revolving around the Earth, and science is wrong? So, it is not the Madrassah style of teaching that BD requires. It is secular education we need that relies on science and technology and observation of nature, solar system, galaxies etc., which is needed to upgrade the BD education level. It was before 1971, but is now being polarized with the govt. encouragement (probably).

Unfortunately, even the educated BD people in the PDF think that secular education cultivates Hinduism and Christianity, and is anti-Islam. If this is what they think, I do not see any prospect of giving the youth a good education in BD. It will not happen even BD makes a little more progress.

The whole argument of effect of religion in development is non-sequitur argument. It completely irrelevant how well a atheistic society develop when reality occurs differently. It's development that results in less religious people. You are arguing for non religiosity when religiosity has everything to do with development and education. When you develop, you get the other. It's not you get non religiosity and get developed in reality. Reality and idealism is different. You are arguing a pointless statement when you can't go around making people less relies before development.

Also, I doubt there are anyone more secular guy in PDF than me (not exaggerating) but you are being anti-islam when you specifically go after islam and attribute bad things that occurs in every religion but then go on to say those don't happen in other religions. I now bestow upon you the title bigot. Because bigot is exactly what you are being on this thread.

 

[bluesky]

Also, I doubt there are anyone more secular guy in PDF than me (not exaggerating) but you are being anti-islam when you specifically go after islam and attribute bad things that occurs in every religion but then go on to say those don't happen in other religions. I now bestow upon you the title bigot. Because bigot is exactly what you are being on this thread.

Instead of making personal attacks and bestowing your own Khetab to me, you better learn how to put argument in a debate. You have already lost the debate because you could not fight my arguments. Instead you are attacking me. I ask you, do you know me or do you have an enmity with me? If no, then learn to stay in the line of the argument. It will not make you worse atheist. By the way, do I have to care if someone loves to proclaim himself an atheist?

 

[Homo Sapiens]

I am against all those superstitions and pious pretensions of the Muslims. Christians, Hindus, Jews and Buddhists are not historically fanatic, but the Muslims have always been. It is Muslims, who always want to impose their faith and Cult on others.

It is ironic that you are telling muslim were only ''fanatic'' historically, when the very word 'fanatic' was coined to describe the Christian fundamentalist.

I don't know why you are unable to see Hundu fanatic, Buddhist fanatic, Jewish fanatic or Christian fanatic.To find Hindu and buddhist fanatic, you don't have to go far beyond Bangladesh.Our two neighboring country has plenty of them.Go to Israel, you will meet a lot of 'nice' jewish fanatic also, many call them Jewish Taliban.You need to learn some European history to see the true, horrific image of Christian fanaticism.Start from French war of religion(1562-1598) and thirty years war(1618-1648) in Germany.There are countless others, read about witch hunt, inquisition, papal supramacy, anti-jewish pogrom,Life history of Gallileo, Geordano Bruno,fate of the native American.and many many more.

I am also very much against muslim extremism, but that doesn't mean, I will be blind to the extremism of other religion and blame only muslim for all the bad things happen under the sun.20th century was the bloodiest century on record.And vast majority of those bloodshed and atrocity was done neither by muslim nor were done in the name of Islam.Mankind already have enough excuse to turn this world into hell even without Islam.Your tendency to blame muslim for all the ills in the world is neither correct nor helpful.

 

[BanglarBagh]

@bluesky
I mean seriously, you must have an image of BD in your head from 20 years ago! People in BD are always talking about shaitan, praying 5 times a day and all that other nonsense you just said can be related to one generation before. But, not anymore with our generation! Heck, I can't even remember the time I last prayed or went to a mosque let alone all day talking about BS! And majority of the people in their 20s and 10s in BD are like this now. And as someone already mentioned most of us don't even know how to pray or forgot how to do it.
I'm not gonna talk about other Muslim countries, but to answer part of your question as to why BD is a LDC or will continue to be a backwards society: We Bengalis or Bangladeshis were the most oppressed and abused since the start of British Raj in the subcontinent and it continued uptill 1971. This centuries of servitude broke our confidence which led to ignorance, superstition and a lack of want of education. So your revered West was responsible for this backwardness.
And another thing, majority of us in the sub continent have this inherent quality of being lazy A..H...s! So, that's another reason for not being able to develop and it's the fault of our basic characteristic not any religion!

 

[bête noire]

Instead of making personal attacks and bestowing your own Khetab to me, you better learn how to put argument in a debate. You have already lost the debate because you could not fight my arguments. Instead you are attacking me. I ask you, do you know me or do you have an enmity with me? If no, then learn to stay in the line of the argument. It will not make you worse atheist. By the way, do I have to care if someone loves to proclaim himself an atheist?

You quoted my last paragraph and ignored the first four and came to conclusion I didn't fight your arguments and lost the debate? Do you take all PDFers as children that no one can look back literally one post above you and see what I said and which one you addressed?

And enmity? Towards you? If you look back at all the threads or messages you posted on PDF, you would find I agreed with all of it (as far I remember) and now I vehemently disagree with a single issue and I am called hostile. Apparently you want lapdogs, anyone who disagree with any part of anything of you automatically have enmity towers you.

 

[Homo Sapiens]

The whole argument of effect of religion in development is non-sequitur argument. It completely irrelevant how well a atheistic society develop when reality occurs differently. It's development that results in less religious people. You are arguing for non religiosity when religiosity has everything to do with development and education. When you develop, you get the other. It's not you get non religiosity and get developed in reality. Reality and idealism is different. You are arguing a pointless statement when you can't go around making people less relies before development.

Religion played a tremendous help in spreading the mass education.In ancient and medieval times, when people had not much incentive to educate, it was the religious education and religious educational institution which performed as the main force to educate the common people.The very idea of universal education in modern form comes form the protestant reformation which requires every protestant Christian to be able to read the Bible in his/her own language.Many of our current glorious universities like Oxford, Cambridge, Notre Dame, Hidelburg were started as a Christian educational institute and survived 800-900 years through the Christian church patronage.Most of the early European scientist were educated in those Church managed school and universities.It is unclear, whether Europe could have come out of middle ages without that church managed school, university setup for common people.

Every Jews are religiously oblized to read the Torah.That's why Jews are always historically 100 percent literate as an ethno-religious group.It is no coincidence that , Jews were able to give so much to the mankind in arts, science and other fields.Similarly during the golden ages of Islam, muslim educational institute helped crucial role of maintaining literacy in the society and given birth most of the muslim scientist and scholars. In muslim ruled Spain, allmost all the muslim inhabitants there were literate, a feat which European Christian would not achieve until many century later.So, religion also had a role to propel the world towards advancement.Many think, organized religion was a societal necessity to pull the mankind from primitive barbarism devoid of values to the human we have become today.Although religion as a social institution also caused much suffering and often acted as a barrier to progress, but as a whole it was a necessary tool for human social evolution.But as society continue to progress, religion in old form will gradually loose it's once enjoyed significance and either will transform to suit the newer societal spiritual need or go extinct naturally.

 

[bête noire]

Instead of arguing on unproved benefits, we should seek riddance of the superstitious believes. Manat, Izrema, Peer, Mazar visit, backwaz in the name of owaz and many other silly things are resp@onsible for the degrading of Muslim society. Result is ISIS, Taleban, Holy Artisan, Boko Haram and bombing of beautiful cities built by the Christians in their countries.

Which group of people does it? Are not these people Muslims? Why should then their activities cannot be criticized? Muslim education system follows some old book teachings. BD must go after secular education.

I am not here for popularity contest. I will keep on speaking on things that have been proved harmful to the Muslim societies in every Muslim country including BD.

Why look at the good things, that doesn't help my argument so only look at the bad things that I am saying. Also ignore or outright deny these bad things occurs in other religions. Agree with me on the dumb assertion that we should get rid of islam in BD before we start developing, because you know, we have magic that defies reality and we can just make people forget about religion altogether. Not like it's development that rids of religiosity, forget reality and be an authoritarian like me, even though I claim to be 'secular'

Well mate, that's simply not how I view or even want my country to be run. I am secular. Religion has no place in the government. But it also applies to government that they don't have any right to be nosey at what people believe in their personal life. Government has no right to go after people for their religion. You claim to be secular and yet actively pushing for these type of BS.

Guess we can't have anyone who we agree with everything. And on this particular issue, it seems you brain fell out. You are either secular or you are not. If you think I am not in favour of secularism and no influence of religion in the government, you can read through the thread https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/bangladeshs-first-quran-sculpture-to-be-unveiled-on-sunday.536407/

 

[bluesky]

Read the news and watch the pictures below. We ought to become proud of what Bd Muslims are doing in the name of religion. Some people here are fondly talking how good Hebrew and Christianity are as if they are same as us, the BD Muslims.

Yes, by reading this and many such accounts of our behavior I really find we are compatible with and are not very dissimilar with other religion groups. This is how there will come a time when most BD Muslims will become a group of highly educated scientists, engineers and medical doctors.

Hebrews and Christians will come to learn here, no doubt. For the time being though, we should go to the desert countries to water the date trees there.

Tabligh Jamaat faction’s demo near Dhaka airport throws traffic haywire
Senior Correspondent, bdnews24.com

Published: 2018-01-10 16:00:16.0 BdST Updated: 2018-01-10 23:51:29.0 BdST

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More than 500 people loyal to a faction of Islamic ideological movement Tabligh Jamaat have demonstrated outside the Dhaka airport, crippling traffic in the northern part of the city.

The demonstrators were protesting against the arrival of the organisation’s supreme council member Saad Kandhalvi from India.

“The Tabligh Jamaat is split over Saad Kandhalvi’s leadership. A faction is opposing his arrival,” Airport Police OC Noor-a-Azam told bdnews24.com.

Protests started around 9am, before Kandhalvi’s arrival in Dhaka.

He arrived in Dhaka in the afternoon, but the demonstrators were still protesting outside the airport.

Kandhalvi left the airport and went to Kakrail Mosque, the centre of Tabligh’s activities in Bangladesh, around 3:30pm.

After the Asr prayers, the demonstrators left the Airport Road and gathered in front of Kakrail Mosque.

Police dispersed them and beefed up security around the mosque. No one was allowed to enter it in the evening.

Residents of the airport area said the protesters gathered in front of a local mosque in the morning and their demonstrations hampered traffic on the road.

Police intervened but the demonstration disrupted traffic on one of the busiest roads in the city, which leads to some national highways.

Many of the passengers got off buses and started to walk to their destinations as buses remained stranded for hours on Dhaka-Gazipur and Dhaka-Mymensingh highways.


The traffic tailback later spanned beyond Tongi Bazar and extended to the National University.

In Dhaka, the residents of Uttara suffered the most from the traffic congestion created by the Tabligh Jamaat protests.

The gridlock spread to all the roads and arteries in the residential area. Many had to return home after failing to even take their cars out of the garage.

Laila Aziz, a retired teacher residing in Uttara Sector 5, said she was to take a relative to a doctor at noon. “But I’ve missed the appointment because of the jam,” she said.

Farzana Chowdhury, a housewife from the same locality, said she always does her kitchen market shopping on Wednesday as the roads get almost empty on this weekly holiday for the shopping complexes in the area.

“But I had to walk two and a half kilometres carrying two bags to return home today,” she said.

Fazlur Rahman, an executive with a private firm, told bdnews24.com around 2:30pm that he had been stranded there for two hours.

Naila Chowdhury, the managing director of a private firm, started for her office in Banani around 11:45am, but returned home at Uttara Sector 3 after getting stuck in the heavy traffic for an hour.

Shaila Monaem, an expatriate living in Australia, has come to Bangladesh and is now staying with her sister in Uttara Sector 14.

She wanted to take her daughter to Gulshan but had to return home after waiting in the car in front their home for 40 minutes.

Later they reached Gulshan via Ashulia, Mirpur and Shyamoli.

Tabligh Jamaat is the largest organisation of Sunni Muslims in the Indian subcontinent. Its headquarters, referred to as the Markaz, is based in New Delhi. Its operations are conducted through 13-member central council, called the Nezamuddin.


Kandhalvi has recently announced himself as the chief of the body, which created a rift among the senior members of the Tabligh Jamaat’s Bangladesh chapter.

In November, a scuffle broke out between two groups on the premises of Dhaka’s Kakrail Mosque, the headquarters of Tabligh Jamaat’s Bangladesh chapter.

In an effort to avoid such untoward incidents in future, an advisory council was formed.

“Protests are being held across the country over his arrival,” the organisation’s member Abdul Quddus told bdnews24.com

 

[Bilal9]

deleted. wrong thread.