Bangladesh to graduate from LDC status in March: Tofail

[bluesky]

14,000 dollar per capita at market exchange rate and 27,000 dollar per capita at purchasing power parity

From another source: "GDP per capita PPP in Turkey averaged 15886.26 USD from 1990 until 2016, reaching an all time high of 23679.40 USD in 2016 and a record low of 11289.91 USD in 1991". However, PPP is not the correct method of assessing a country's living standard. Do not please compare Turkey with Japan. Japan's living standard is at par or above most of the western countries, whatever may be the GDP data says.
Turkey can probably be compared with countries like Brazil.

But why are you keeping on concentrating on Turkey only? Why not other countries like Saudi Arabia or Qatar. To me these countries are underdeveloped. Their oil money has brought affluence there. It does not mean they are developed. People there cannot just work sincerely there, just like our people. You are putting too much importance on GDP only. GDP is only one factor. We have to think over people's minds and their way of thinking. Are our people willing to change their traditional mindset?

All the Muslim societies remain stuck to the age 1500 years ago, that is the truth. And these people are neither capable to improve their lives and living condition, at least not at par with the Christian, Buddhist or Jewish communities. For BD, I think, even after 200 years young people will go to seek jobs in other countries only because of bad governance and building up of many good institutions and systems in Shonar Bangla. Religion plays a dragging role here. So, for us the sky is not the limit.

 

[Homo Sapiens]

From another source: "GDP per capita PPP in Turkey averaged 15886.26 USD from 1990 until 2016, reaching an all time high of 23679.40 USD in 2016 and a record low of 11289.91 USD in 1991". However, PPP is not the correct method of assessing a country's living standard. Do not please compare Turkey with Japan. Japan's living standard is at par or above most of the western countries, whatever may be the GDP data says.
Turkey can probably be compared with countries like Brazil.

But why are you keeping on concentrating on Turkey only? Why not other countries like Saudi Arabia or Qatar. To me these countries are underdeveloped. Their oil money has brought affluence there. It does not mean they are developed. People there cannot just work sincerely there, just like our people. You are putting too much importance on GDP only. GDP is only one factor. We have to think over people's minds and their way of thinking. Are our people willing to change their traditional mindset?

All the Muslim societies remain stuck to the age 1500 years ago, that is the truth. And these people are neither capable to improve their lives and living condition, at least not at par with the Christian, Buddhist or Jewish communities. For BD, I think, even after 200 years young people will go to seek jobs in other countries only because of bad governance and building up of many good institutions and systems in Shonar Bangla. Religion plays a dragging role here. So, for us the sky is not the limit.

You are taking a narrow snapshot of some places and some times and extrapolating that for eternity.This is not the way of how the world moves forward.Whatever, you are entitled to hold your perception as you see them, I am not willing to debate this things any longer.

 

[Old School]

Professor Rostow, an eminent economic historian and a specialist on economic development, has divided the historical process of economic growth into five stages:

(1) The traditional society;
(2) Pre-conditions for take-off;
(3) The ‘take-off;
(4) The drive to maturity; and
(5) The age of high mass consumption.

I think, BD will remain in the stage of 1) Traditional Society even after its graduation from an LDC status. Now, what economic criteria are for this traditional society?

(1) The Traditional Society:

In a traditional society, modern science and technology are either not available or are not being systematically applied. However, there may be ad hoc application of innovations. Production can also increase due to increase in acreage.

Domestic and foreign trade can change in composition. But the distinguishing feature of the traditional society is that there exists a ceiling to the level of the attainable per capita output. A large proportion of productive resources are devoted to agriculture.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

** By observing the backward society of BD where people believe more in superstitions, gossips, explanation of night dreams, expects interference of Divine power etc. rather than thinking logically puts BD in a traditional society whereby there are very little inclination to learn and apply science and technology. I, for one, do not believe that the BD society any time soon will come out of this traditional thinking. So, it can be said that the country will remain stuck to its past/present traditional form with a little tendency to overcome it. The institution of government alone cannot change the country.

Even India still remains in a a developing stage without much introduction of technology to its traditional society because India is unable to tear away from the thinking of a five millennium old traditional society.

-bluesky-

I can only think of real success stories in the whole Asian continent are South Korea and Taiwan. There is no GDP propaganda nonsense but real empirically verifiable socio economic development.

 

[bluesky]

You are taking a narrow snapshot of some places and some times and extrapolating that for eternity.This is not the way of how the world moves forward.Whatever, you are entitled to hold your perception as you see them, I am not willing to debate this things any longer.

I just do not understand why are you talking like this. In my life I have lived in many places of BD because my father was a railway servant, and I have visted many place except Sylhet. Do you think I do not know what BD people are? I have the right to speak my mind. I have traveled to and lived in quite a few countries in Asia, Europe and Africa. I believe, I know what we are and what other groups of people are.

Can you just tell me why the average Muslim countries are underdeveloped? I think, it is not me who is showing a narrow view. Rather, it is you. You are unable to accept the nasty truth. I have seen it in your backward views on the visitors coming in millions to Shonar Bangla. It is a narrow way of thinking. I believe, visitors like to avoid BD because I understand what people want to see is absent in BD.

About moving forward, please talk when BD people change their superstitious mindset based on Iblis, Jinn and Pari, and come to say what you are saying now. It will not happen in the next million years. The world around you has changed already and now you are talking of BD population will change. It is already late by a few hundred years. So, in which year this will happen?

 

[TopCat]

I just do not understand why are you talking like this. In my life I have lived in many places of BD because my father was a railway servant, and I have visted many place except Sylhet. Do you think I do not know what BD people are? I have the right to speak my mind. I have traveled to and lived in quite a few countries in Asia, Europe and Africa. I believe, I know what we are and what other groups of people are.

Can you just tell me why the average Muslim countries are underdeveloped? I think, it is not me who is showing a narrow view. Rather, it is you. You are unable to accept the nasty truth. I have seen it in your backward views on the visitors coming in millions to Shonar Bangla. It is a narrow way of thinking. I believe, visitors like to avoid BD because I understand what people want to see is absent in BD.

About moving forward, please talk when BD people change their superstitious mindset based on Iblis, Jinn and Pari, and come to say what you are saying now. It will not happen in the next million years. The world around you has changed already and now you are talking of BD population will change. It is already late by a few hundred years. So, in which year this will happen?

As you travelled across many places then you should had met some Santhal community. They were never muslim but one of the poorest in the sub continent. The reason is not religion but lack of correct approach towards life. They are just happy what they are. We in sub continent are like that more or less. We did not realize the benefit of science and technology and how that could change the quality of life. People just started to realize that. Even the stupid arabs including Saudis know it very well. They will not go back to Bedhuin life even after oil money runs out. They are now 99% educated.

 

[bluesky]

As you travelled across many places then you should had met some Santhal community. They were never muslim but one of the poorest in the sub continent. The reason is not religion but lack of correct approach towards life. They are just happy what they are. We in sub continent are like that more or less. We did not realize the benefit of science and technology and how that could change the quality of life. People just started to realize that. Even the stupid arabs including Saudis know it very well. They will not go back to Bedhuin life even after oil money runs out. They are now 99% educated.

Santals are poorer than Muslim Bangladeshis because they are oppressed by the Muslims and their lands are confiscated. Their children do not get good treatment from the Muslim children in the schools. However, rich or poor, Muslims are as backward as the Santals are. But, I was not talking who is poor or rich. I was talking about the backwardness of the Muslims. These are two different things.

Is it necessary to avoid the main question: why only the Muslim countries are in the lowest rung of the backwardness? Can someone answer it? If you think India is a Hindu society, then you know Hindu India, of which Santals may be a part, are far above the Muslim BD? Hindus are as superstitious as the Muslims may be. But, their superstition is not a 24 hours talk of Shaitan, Paradise and Hell.

Their religion does not tell the entire Universe was created in six days, but the Arabs will keep on believing it. As a result, they have more logical minds than ourselves. We are taught many absurd and surreal things since childhood.

 

[TopCat]

Santals are poorer than Muslim Bangladeshis because they are oppressed by the Muslims and their lands are confiscated. Their children do not get good treatment from the Muslim children in the schools. However, rich or poor, Muslims are as backward as the Santals are. But, I was not talking who is poor or rich. I was talking about the backwardness of the Muslims. These are two different things.

Is it necessary to avoid the main question: why only the Muslim countries are in the lowest rung of the backwardness? Can someone answer it? If you think India is a Hindu society, then you know Hindu India, of which Santals may be a part, are far above the Muslim BD? Hindus are as superstitious as the Muslims may be. But, their superstition is not a 24 hours talk of Shaitan, Paradise and Hell.

Their religion does not tell the entire Universe was created in six days, but the Arabs will keep on believing it. As a result, they have more logical minds than ourselves. On the country, we are taught many absurd and surreal things since childhood.

What about the Santhal in India? I dont think Muslim confiscate their land there.. right?
Muslim were in the lowest rung becuase it is not part of Europe. It missed the bus of colonization of entire world in the last half of millenia. Its not only Muslim but everybody except European who captured most of the wealth and resources of the world. Just look, entire American continent, Australia, Newzealand are in their hand. Forget about Russia...
It is only recently China were able to utilize its human wealth to challenge West, yet a long long way to go.

 

[bluesky]

What about the Santhal in India? I dont think Muslim confiscate their land there.. right?

Santals in India may be like the superstitious Muslims everywhere, who knows? Why do not you take the trouble of going to Santalland and start a survey? Do not forget to send a report of you finding in the PDF. Best wishes.

America, New Zealand, Australia and many other parts of the world have been inhabited by the Christians from Europe. They brought their culture their. So, all together they belong to western hemisphere with a high level of intellect, knowledge and education. This group captured and controlled all the superstitious-fed Muslim countries. The Muslims could only pray for a few Centuries to get rid of the shackles.

But, their mindset is not capable to learn the way of the Christian west. They love to rebuke them as Nasara. Unless this mindset is changed and we learn from them, there is no way we can develop in the true sense. Do not you see how the westernized Chinese and Japanese take away the BD projects one after another? They do it not by hating the west, but by adapting to and adopting their way.

 

[bête noire]

Santals in India may be like the superstitious Muslims everywhere, who knows? Why do not you take the trouble of going to Santalland and start a survey? Do not forget to send a report of you finding in the PDF. Best wishes.

America, New Zealand, Australia and many other parts of the world have been inhabited by the Christians from Europe. They brought their culture their. So, all together they belong to western hemisphere with a high level of intellect, knowledge and education. This group captured and controlled all the superstitious-fed Muslim countries. The Muslims could only pray for a few Centuries to get rid of the shackles.

But, their mindset is not capable to learn the way of the Christian west. They love to rebuke them as Nasara. Unless this mindset is changed and we learn from them, there is no way we can develop in the true sense. Do not you see how the westernized Chinese and Japanese take away the BD projects one after another? They do it not by hating the west, but by adapting to and adopting their way.

WHAT. ARE. YOU. ON. ABOUT? I am an atheist but you have one major thing confused here buddy. It's rarely IF EVER more religious=result poor life advancement. It's the complete opposite, more wealth, more life advancement=less people being religious. Less people being religious in just about every case is the result of wealth which opens education opportunities, it's almost never because of less religion that resulted in better life although if that in my opinion have better chance of advancing faster.

Those Cristians or whatever majority countries you are pointing to wasn't always so less religious, it's the result of them being so rich and getting more education. It wasn't because of less religiosity that they advanced.

However, the days of single ethnic times are done now you will at least need to be reasonably secular or have natural resources for advancement. These days, you can't deal in world stage where trade is major part of advancement to run your country like a religious fundamentalist and expect every country to work you.

 

[idune]

This is awami league election time stunt, nothing more or less. Bangladesh still has ways to go out f LDC status and more importantly Bangladeshi industries (garments, pharmaceuticals, leather etc.) are not ready to deal with consequence from that. If you ask this Tofiel "idiot these question he will be mumbling. And if you ask awami cheer leading pom poms in this forrum, they will gloat even more to cover their idiocy.

 

[Gibbs]

No, it is only around 14,000 dollar per capita. It is after hundreds of years of development. Even the modern development started since the time of Kamal Ataturk. Religion plays a drag to any Muslim society. Please do not compare the Muslim countries with the Christian ones. USA and other Christian countries are not fundamentalist countries like all the Muslim countries.

For example, Muslims have to believe that earthquake is a punishment to men for doing bad things. There are millions of superstitions written in the old books, and the Muslims love to believe them to secure places in a non-seen Paradise although science says something different about earthquakes. Do the Christians believe in these superstitions and keep on talking about Paradise and Hell all throughout their days like the Muslims do? So, there is a fundamental difference in outlook between the two or three groups.

Malaysia is developing a little only because of the hard-working Chinese enterpreneurship and not because of the Malay Muslims. During my stay there long time ago I found them believing in superstitions more like BD people.

Anyway, it is a reality that the Muslim countries are backward, but, no one really knows why they remain so and have to beg to the Christian and Buddhist countries for survival?

Turkey GDP per capita
The GDP per capita is obtained by dividing the country’s gross domestic product, adjusted by inflation, by the total population. This page provides the latest reported value for - Turkey GDP per capita - plus previous releases, historical high and low, short-term forecast and long-term prediction, economic calendar, survey consensus and news. Turkey GDP per capita - actual data, historical chart and calendar of releases - was last updated on January of 2018.

Actual Previous Highest Lowest Dates Unit Frequency
14071.17 13894.60 14071.17 3134.68 1960 - 2016 USD Yearly

I have posted this video before in other threads, But to support your argument about human development against organized religion particularly the more fundamental practices of faith, It also explains the exception of the US where essentially their version of God is a capitalist.. It explains well the correlation of poverty with excess religiousness

 

[UKBengali]

@bluesky

I have no idea why you keep going on about BD people being so superstitious and backwards all the time. BD is one of the most progressive Muslim countries and it's interpretation of Islam will do not harm to it's development. If one day science subjects like physics was banned from being taught in school, then it will be a different case.

BD is developing very nicely and unless it becomes like an ISIS state then nothing can stop it's march towards middle-income status within the next generation.

If BD people believed in superstition like you say then the electronics and drug companies would not have come into being. They require a high level of belief in science to allow that kind of technology to develop.

I am not at all a religious person myself but find this constant reference to BD not being able to catch up to the West for hundreds of years due to religion really silly.

 

[bête noire]

I have posted this video before in other threads, But to support your argument about human development against organized religion particularly the more fundamental practices of faith, It also explains the exception of the US where essentially their version of God is a capitalist.. It explains well the correlation of poverty with excess religiousness

Watched that video when they posted it and have been following that channel since it's earlier days. Problem with your argument is, you post this video then literally ignore every point the video makes about resources, geographical advantage, climate advantage and so many other factors and then you go on about literally one point [religion] and over exaggerate it to the point whenever anyone mentions religion to development, it gets way too much overrated. As I said before, they didn't just 'become' less religious one day and started developing the next day. The more developed they got, the more education they got and the more they got to know more about the world and open up society, the less religious they become.

Even in the case of US, study after study shows young people are leaving religion in the highest numbers. US has one THE best geographical position, they never had any significant war on their soil with another country for centuries apart from a little one which is pearl harbour. AND that's one of the single biggest factor why the US is where it is today. When you don't face any war on your cities or countries development, you don't have to worry about rebuilding everything. Also since it's o big, it get it's way with other countries when having relations. You overstretch religious influence way too much.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

Turkey is now a developed country.Their per capita income(ppp) now stand around 27,000 US dollar, not much behind than established developed country like Italy or Spain.They have a huge industrial sector.Turkey in every way a modern, industrialized country now.And it have done it without ditching it's Islamic tradition.So is Malaysia and some other muslim countries.USA is a conservative Christian country, still one of the top developed country in world.In today's world, religion is not much a drag of development.With right policy from govt. any country can march towards development at different speed.With marching along the developmental path, traditional values will undergo positive transformation.In today's Bangladesh, almost no one have any objection to female education, but this was not the case in 100 years ago.We are let in progress, but improving steadily.

The highly developed, scientific minded population you are talking about, they have acquired it very slowly over 500 years.Just 300 years ago, these people burned women at stake for witchcraft.Just 150 years ago, no non-Protestant Christian could live in today's highly liberal Norway or Sweden. Forget about any Muslim or Hindu setting foot there.Just 70-80 years ago, scientific racism was rife in western countries and Germany gone to extreme length to wipe out ''inferior'' races.Homosexual relation was a criminal offense up to 1970s in all western countries.So, do not fret about their current values and lack of ours.

It's the leadership and the mindset of the majority folks that counts. If they want to change their social-economic conditions it'll work. By the by, the majority of the social-economic development in Turkey (1950-60; 65-70, 83-90, 2002-...) occurred when governments had the support of the majority of the conservative folks. Whenever the leftists staunchly "secularist" came to power - mostly due to coups - one disaster after another occurred. This piece of info is engrained in the "silent majority"'s mindset...

 

[mb444]

Professor Rostow, an eminent economic historian and a specialist on economic development, has divided the historical process of economic growth into five stages:

(1) The traditional society;
(2) Pre-conditions for take-off;
(3) The ‘take-off;
(4) The drive to maturity; and
(5) The age of high mass consumption.

I think, BD will remain in the stage of 1) Traditional Society even after its graduation from an LDC status. Now, what economic criteria are for this traditional society?

(1) The Traditional Society:

In a traditional society, modern science and technology are either not available or are not being systematically applied. However, there may be ad hoc application of innovations. Production can also increase due to increase in acreage.

Domestic and foreign trade can change in composition. But the distinguishing feature of the traditional society is that there exists a ceiling to the level of the attainable per capita output. A large proportion of productive resources are devoted to agriculture.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

** By observing the backward society of BD where people believe more in superstitions, gossips, explanation of night dreams, expects interference of Divine power etc. rather than thinking logically puts BD in a traditional society whereby there are very little inclination to learn and apply science and technology. I, for one, do not believe that the BD society any time soon will come out of this traditional thinking. So, it can be said that the country will remain stuck to its past/present traditional form with a little tendency to overcome it. The institution of government alone cannot change the country.

Even India still remains in a a developing stage without much introduction of technology to its traditional society because India is unable to tear away from the thinking of a five millennium old traditional society.

-bluesky-

Perhaps.... but many of superstition you speak off are also prevelant in societies such as US or Japan.

Personally I believe BD is somewhere between in the 2nd stage or early 3rd stage.

Economics and religion should not be conflated. Islamic worlds backwardness is not related to religion but rather the failure of our internal politics and colonialism of the last 300 years.