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Bangladesh sham elections and sham coverage compared to Pakistan

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Your current PM is a world famous playboy commited many zina. Your founder Jinnah was a drinker and pork eater. Yahya was a 24/7 drunkard and prostitute goer, Zulfikar Ali Bhutto was a driker, Ayub khan was a drinker. Hypocrites never look in the mirror, not surprising at all.

@Major Sam

He did not say a single thing that was untrue. Why did you not give others who used abusive language against Bangladeshi leaders a negative rating? What sort of abuse of privilege is this?
 
One thing is true, healthy competitive democracy is absent in Bangladesh. India is much ahead in this regard. We till date haven't found a stable way to govern ourselves. That's a reason some military administrators are seen positively because their adminstration was much more disciplined than civilian administrators.

That's a good point you make. Let me shed what I think personally.

Bangladesh's lack of a properly functioning democracy isn't something to be worried of at the moment. For that to be implemented, we need a matured, tried-and-tested, visionary system in place. This includes not only an efficient administration but only socio-economic and literacy development, fields in which we still have catch-up to do. As Bangladesh does not have such a system in place, any concept of democracy will be polluted and misused. True democracy thus works in countries like Switzerland and other more 'experienced' nations.

This also indicates why Hasina, despite of all her flaws, should continue and take us through this transition phase and complete all our major projects. Once all the current political crop retires/passes away, young & educated bloods will take over gradually leading the change.

Look at the massive strides we made, given we are not even 50 years old as a country. Lets take a chill pill! The trajectory is only upwards.
 
That's a good point you make. Let me shed what I think personally.

Bangladesh's lack of a properly functioning democracy isn't something to be worried of at the moment. For that to be implemented, we need a matured, tried-and-tested, visionary system in place. This includes not only an efficient administration but only socio-economic and literacy development, fields in which we still have catch-up to do. As Bangladesh does not have such a system in place, any concept of democracy will be polluted and misused. True democracy thus works in countries like Switzerland and other more 'experienced' nations.

This also indicates why Hasina, despite of all her flaws, should continue and take us through this transition phase and complete all our major projects. Once all the current political crop retires/passes away, young & educated bloods will take over gradually leading the change.

Look at the massive strides we made, given we are not even 50 years old as a country. Lets take a chill pill! The trajectory is only upwards.

The true guard of the democracy is the people. A people who are educated and aware of their rights. When I say educated, I don't mean 100% literacy rate with numerous graduates. I mean true education that went beyond the certificate. Otherwise, Saudi Arabia would be a healthy democracy since they have near 100% literacy rate with numerous people with big degrees, yet they remain the primitive people they are.
 
@Major Sam

He did not say a single thing that was untrue. Why did you not give others who used abusive language against Bangladeshi leaders a negative rating? What sort of abuse of privilege is this?
He frequently does that. After all he's a staff with 0 positive rating and 3 negative rating.

This also indicates why Hasina, despite of all her flaws, should continue and take us through this transition phase and complete all our major projects.
I have stated the same thing with different wordings before. @Atlas

That's why I support Hasina...despite disliking some of the things her administration does. It's not a democracy when you force people to choose between two bad choice.
 
The true guard of the democracy is the people. A people who are educated and aware of their rights. When I say educated, I don't mean 100% literacy rate with numerous graduates. I mean true education that went beyond the certificate. Otherwise, Saudi Arabia would be a healthy democracy since they have near 100% literacy rate with numerous people with big degrees, yet they remain the primitive people they are.

I agree. Alongside education, I also see emotions to be an issue. We need to transform our population to ones who thinks, reflects and applies. Right now, they see through their minds and cries democracy when they have absolutely no idea how a functional democracy works and is applied. The starting point has to be an efficient and good civil administration.
 
I agree. Alongside education, I also see emotions to be an issue. We need to transform our population to ones who thinks, reflects and applies. Right now, they see through their minds and cries democracy when they have absolutely no idea how a functional democracy works and is applied. The starting point has to be an efficient and good civil administration.

That emotion is the cause of lack of real education. The Europeans got their democracy after many years of enlightenment, it's a learning curve both for the people and those of the leadership. A peasant from the hinterland can suddenly become fortunate and rich but does not become cultured overnight. A good example might be the Chinese.

Of course!

I just read in wikipedia that his burial ceremony was in Islamabad. Are you sure he was buried in India?
 
That emotion is the cause of lack of real education. The Europeans got their democracy after many years of enlightenment, it's a learning curve both for the people and those of the leadership. A peasant from the hinterland can suddenly become fortunate and rich but does not become cultured overnight. A good example might be the Chinese.

And case in point in this thread, its ironic that a certain nation with a military-run administration and lower literacy rate than ours hilariously attempts to compare how big they are. The only thing I see big is that begging bowl because according to their logic, bigger = more. :lol:

He frequently does that. After all he's a staff with 0 positive rating and 3 negative rating.


I have stated the same thing with different wordings before. @Atlas

That's why I support Hasina...despite disliking some of the things her administration does. It's not a democracy when you force people to choose between two bad choice.

On point Mage. And in our context, you choose the lesser evil who does some work. That's worth it.
 
That emotion is the cause of lack of real education. The Europeans got their democracy after many years of enlightenment, it's a learning curve both for the people and those of the leadership. A peasant from the hinterland can suddenly become fortunate and rich but does not become cultured overnight. A good example might be the Chinese.



I just read in wikipedia that his burial ceremony was in Islamabad. Are you sure he was buried in India?

A vague memory; I could well be wrong, I wasn't reading for that detail or for any other detail. At that time, it was a feeling of respect for a genuine hero who had passed away. That he was Pakistani was a minor matter.

That's a good point you make. Let me shed what I think personally.

Bangladesh's lack of a properly functioning democracy isn't something to be worried of at the moment. For that to be implemented, we need a matured, tried-and-tested, visionary system in place. This includes not only an efficient administration but only socio-economic and literacy development, fields in which we still have catch-up to do. As Bangladesh does not have such a system in place, any concept of democracy will be polluted and misused. True democracy thus works in countries like Switzerland and other more 'experienced' nations.

This also indicates why Hasina, despite of all her flaws, should continue and take us through this transition phase and complete all our major projects. Once all the current political crop retires/passes away, young & educated bloods will take over gradually leading the change.

Look at the massive strides we made, given we are not even 50 years old as a country. Lets take a chill pill! The trajectory is only upwards.

Two points.

First, I think we were lucky, in India. I think that with all his faults, and they were many, Nehru, in his striving to match the British standard of political behaviour, and in attempting to maintain a superior standard of integrity and neutral behaviour without interfering with the administration, gave us a brilliant head-start. Much of what we enjoy today is the whittled-down remainder of a very high standard. In saying that, I remain painfully aware of the various faults and distortions that crept in even with that effort.

Second, I think that in India, we have achieved a nice balance of administrative integrity and electoral awareness of its rights and privileges, and its willingness as an electorate to act in its own interest, and to be ruthless with bad performance by a party in power.

That's a good point you make. Let me shed what I think personally.

Bangladesh's lack of a properly functioning democracy isn't something to be worried of at the moment. For that to be implemented, we need a matured, tried-and-tested, visionary system in place. This includes not only an efficient administration but only socio-economic and literacy development, fields in which we still have catch-up to do. As Bangladesh does not have such a system in place, any concept of democracy will be polluted and misused. True democracy thus works in countries like Switzerland and other more 'experienced' nations.

This also indicates why Hasina, despite of all her flaws, should continue and take us through this transition phase and complete all our major projects. Once all the current political crop retires/passes away, young & educated bloods will take over gradually leading the change.

Look at the massive strides we made, given we are not even 50 years old as a country. Lets take a chill pill! The trajectory is only upwards.

On another front, I also think that Pakistan, as she was originally constituted, was singularly unlucky, with Jinnah's towering figure being removed before things had really settled down - in contrast, we lost Patel in more or less the same time frame, and we saw distortions creep in due to Nehru's pre-eminence and the failure of his colleagues to challenge him regularly and systematically. Not to be hostile, but to achieve a proper balance of different opinions as a foundation of policy-making.

When successively, Ghulam Mohammed, and then Iskandar Mirza fished in troubled waters, and used the confusion due to Jinnah's guiding spirit being abruptly removed, and Liaqat Ali Khan's most untimely assassination, to push their own utterly selfish agenda, the way was paved for the steadily weakening democracy in Pakistan. By transmission, in Bangladesh as well.

Add to that the pattern of pre-Bangladeshi East Pakistan politics. People forget today that the dominant voices in that time was the fading voice of Fazlul Huq, the disappearance of Suhrawardy, and the greater and greater importance of Maulana Bhashani. The Maulana was a frightening figure for Indian observers, with his combination of Islamic fundamentalism and leftist populism. He was also strongly anti-Indian. In that context, with East Pakistan showing the same mix of populism and general civilian unrest against the administration that was on display under the CPI(M) in neighbouring West Bengal, it was the same picture from Delhi and from Islamabad. It was NOT unique to what was later Bangladesh, and those Pakistani commentators who are doing somersaults and aerial vaults about the particular duplicity of Bangladeshis and their combination of disloyalty to Pakistan and failure to be good Muslims need to remember that this was about Bangladesh. It was about specific sections of a country's population becoming more and more alienated from the central administration of that country. Religion had little or nothing to do with it. Language had a lot to do with it, as ONE of the causes of alienation, NOT as a prime reason. The stupidity of the centre, and its artery-hardened sclerotic response to regional dissatisfaction, was a major reason.

Finally, Yahya's decision after the elections, and Bhutto's utterly selfish behaviour were the prime reasons for the formation of Bangladesh.
 
A vague memory; I could well be wrong, I wasn't reading for that detail or for any other detail. At that time, it was a feeling of respect for a genuine hero who had passed away. That he was Pakistani was a minor matter.



Two points.

First, I think we were lucky, in India. I think that with all his faults, and they were many, Nehru, in his striving to match the British standard of political behaviour, and in attempting to maintain a superior standard of integrity and neutral behaviour without interfering with the administration, gave us a brilliant head-start. Much of what we enjoy today is the whittled-down remainder of a very high standard. In saying that, I remain painfully aware of the various faults and distortions that crept in even with that effort.

Second, I think that in India, we have achieved a nice balance of administrative integrity and electoral awareness of its rights and privileges, and its willingness as an electorate to act in its own interest, and to be ruthless with bad performance by a party in power.

I personally think the reason democracy never took root in Pakistan is because of the Islamic legacy. Before the partition, all military officers of India and Pakistan were part of British Indian Military. The went to the same institutions. After the partition, the Muslim officers joined Pakistan army and the non-Muslims remained in Indian army. What's surprising is people from the same institution have totally different attitudes, Pakistanis pulling coup after coup but Indians remaining totally loyal to the elected government, looking upto them for orders to be carried out accurately.

My explanation for this is the Islamic legacy. In Islamic history always the great warriors became the Sultans, the prize of the Khilafah and Sultanate always went the the one with strongest arm. In Islamic societies, because of the concept of Jihad and conquest of kafir lands always made the people consider great warriors in high esteem. This culture is very prevalent in Pakistan since that region was always under some kind of Islamic rule. Bengal on the other hand despite being Muslim did not see conquest and counter conquest to the same scale as Pakistanis. Bengal converted to Islam primarily in the hands of sufi preachers. I think this is the reason why coup is the culture in Pakistan but far less in BD. Also to be noted the Generals in BD army who pulled the coups were all trained in PMA and inherited some of Pakistan military culture, the more days are passing, these people are retiring and dying of old age and new generation of officers trained in BMA assuming leadership, hence I think we will see less and less military coups in BD in future.
 
I personally think the reason democracy never took root in Pakistan is because of the Islamic legacy. Before the partition, all military officers of India and Pakistan were part of British Indian Military. The went to the same institutions. After the partition, the Muslim officers joined Pakistan army and the non-Muslims remained in Indian army. What's surprising is people from the same institution have totally different attitudes, Pakistanis pulling coup after coup but Indians remaining totally loyal to the elected government, looking upto them for orders to be carried out accurately.

My explanation for this is the Islamic legacy. In Islamic history always the great warriors became the Sultans, the prize of the Khilafah and Sultanate always went the the one with strongest arm. In Islamic societies, because of the concept of Jihad and conquest of kafir lands always made the people consider great warriors in high esteem. This culture is very prevalent in Pakistan since that region was always under some kind of Islamic rule. Bengal on the other hand despite being Muslim did not see conquest and counter conquest to the same scale as Pakistanis. Bengal converted to Islam primarily in the hands of sufi preachers. I think this is the reason why coup is the culture in Pakistan but far less in BD. Also to be noted the Generals in BD army who pulled the coups were all trained in PMA and inherited some of Pakistan military culture, the more days are passing, these people are retiring and dying of old age and new generation of officers trained in BMA assuming leadership, hence I think we will see less and less military coups in BD in future.

A very good analysis. I wonder, in this context, what was the influence of the strong administration in Bengal of the Islamic Sultanate; people tend to forget so easily that Bengal had its own independent Sultanate and a very effective and seaward looking state for much of history.

How would you and @bd_4_ever place this fact in context? I am vastly curious to hear you on this.
 
A very good analysis. I wonder, in this context, what was the influence of the strong administration in Bengal of the Islamic Sultanate; people tend to forget so easily that Bengal had its own independent Sultanate and a very effective and seaward looking state for much of history.

How would you and @bd_4_ever place this fact in context? I am vastly curious to hear you on this.

Yes there were Sultanates but I don't think in those times Muslims were a significant majority. Even if they were, they were fairly new converts in the hands of sufi preachers who were more into establishing a divine link with the Lord through various parctices such as cleansing of ones heart, rather than Jihad and conquests. Besides Bengal being teh furthest part of the subcontinent did not have a direct land link to the Islamic heartlands suck as Arabia, Persia, Central Asia and the Turks. So Benaglis being Muslim missed out on centuries of Islamic military adventures and the society and culture that developed around it.
 
How would you and @bd_4_ever place this fact in context? I am vastly curious to hear you on this.
I think we Bengalis prefer to sleep peacefully than doing adventures. Amra gofe tel diye ghumotei beshi bhalobashi. Bright chelera valo chaakri korte chay, bideshe porte jete chay kintu military te join korte chay na. Amar ek kaka(babar choto bhai) army te colonel. Baba bole, je tini naki ekta gobet chilen. :lol:
 
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