Bangladesh Navy

[eastwatch]

even if these are absolute junks, they have their uses..... I've said that several times in this thread..... submarines are force multipliers.... they can tie down many more enemy units.... this is regardless of their sophistication..... just because you don't know where they are; you can't see them like surface ships..... you have to search for them....

let me give an example.....
suppose our navy has 5 frigates..... they encounter an enemy force that has 8 frigates.....
we deploy our submarines near their coast..... they just loiter around there gathering info, doing nothing else.....
what happens is that all on a sudden you find out that our 5 frigates are facing just 4 enemy frigates!!
the rest 4 were deployed near their ports to protect them against our subs!!
this is what I call force multiplier.... who says that you always have to sink ships and what not.....
there's something called strategy, which plays with what you have and what you know.....

To me your analysis is quite rational. Why people are fond of mocking BN procurements by name calling the subs as junks when similar submarines are in the active service of Chinese navy itself?

 

[Ideas_R_Bulletproof]

No, what I wrote 305-308 means from 305 to 308, these are No. 305, No. 306, No. 307 and No. 308. Anyway, there is no much difference.

ooop!!!.... we ordered only 2.....
so, probably 2 of these 4 are coming to Bangladesh?.... is it?
and what happens to the other two?..... another customer for those?..... or are they going to scrapyard? :O

To me your analysis is quite rational. Why people are fond of mocking BN procurements by name calling the subs as junks when similar submarines are in the active service of Chinese navy itself?

exactly..... there is something called number..... and numbers are important..... sometimes deployment of a certain number somewhere can hold off an enemy force far greater than itself.....
the PLAN has a strategy with these subs.... you can't expect all areas of the sea patrolled with state-of-the-art passive sonars.... in fact, BN would have a hard time finding these Type 035G subs in the Bay of Bengal with its current ASW capability...... there would always be certain areas of the sea that would be unprotected or poorly protected..... if you send a few subs in that direction, there would be instant panic among the enemy....
its not that a commander would always have the most advanced stuff..... if you know how to use the stuff at your disposal, probably you may succeed even with less than ideal equipment...... Rommel had to fight against the British with mostly inferior Italian tanks (there were more Italian tanks than German under his command).... even the German tanks were of lesser quality than British tanks..... and what he was able to achieve with those is known to everyone.....

 

[aliaselin]

ooop!!!.... we ordered only 2.....
so, probably 2 of these 4 are coming to Bangladesh?.... is it?
and what happens to the other two?..... another customer for those?..... or are they going to scrapyard? :O

I mean two of the four. However, this is claimed by the one who take the photos, as I previously said, this news is different from my sourse.

 

[BDforever]

I mean two of the four. However, this is claimed by the one who take the photos, as I previously said, this news is different from my sourse.

what did your source say ?

 

[Ideas_R_Bulletproof]

I mean two of the four. However, this is claimed by the one who take the photos, as I previously said, this news is different from my sourse.

anyway, thanks..... we would love to know in time when you source corroborates this.....

 

[aliaselin]

what did your source say ?

My source said they would be from North Sea Fleet

 

[BDforever]

My source said they would be from North Sea Fleet

what are their hull numbers and are they type035G too ?

 

[aliaselin]

what are their hull numbers and are they type035G too ?

Of course type 035G. Hull number don't know at the moment.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

View attachment 32839

View attachment 32840

So I guess the hull number is 305 -308

50s tech... diving mass coffins.. bd is screwed.

 

[aliaselin]

50s tech... diving mass coffins.. bd is screwed.

Dude，type 209 is 60s tech, and Agosta 70s tech. Considering USSR is ahead of France and Germany after WWII, there is no much difference

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Dude，type 209 is 60s tech, and Agosta 70s tech. Considering USSR is ahead of France and Germany after WWII, there is no much difference

not really... french and germans build one of the best subs out there.. and agostas arent 70s tech.... unlike an obsolete phased out rotting sub based on russian romeo sub from the 50s... if it was so advanced PLAN wouldnt have been investing in newer Song or Qing class subs...instead they would have gone with the type39s?

 

[aliaselin]

not really... french and germans build one of the best subs out there.. and 209,agostas arent 60s-70s tech.... unlike an obsolete phased out rotting sub based on russian romeo sub from the 50s... if it was so advanced PLAN wouldnt have been investing in newer Song or Qing class subs...instead they would have gone with the type39s?

German developed type 212 and phased out type 209, France developed Scorpene and phased out Agosta. Basically, all of these use whale body shape and the same generation.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

German developed type 212 and phased out type 209, France developed Scorpene and phased out Agosta. Basically, all of these use whale body shape and the same generation.

Agosta 90Bs are a different animal... the last one was commisioned in 2006... and share many similarities with the scorpene... including its SUBTICS combat system... MESMA AIP.armament etc etc.. and is slighty inferior in performance to the scorpene..

U209 is still much better than a russian romeo.

 

[aliaselin]

Original agostas were built in the 90s.. but Agosta 90Bs are a different animal... the last one was commisioned in 2006... and share many similarities with the scorpene... including its SUBTICS combat system... MESMA AIP.armament etc etc.. and is slighty inferior in performance to the scorpene..

U209 is still much better than a russian romeo.

I'm always trying to find why type 209 is better than Romeo in design, not about electronics, combat system and propulsion, as all of these can be upgraded. Would you be kind to offer some evidence? I'm not talking about Agosta 90B, and I know it is different from Agosta
MESMA/AIP has low thermal efficiency, high noise, and medium cost-efficiency, while rumors say some type 035G have SE/AIP, which is mature, better thermal efficiency, low noise and best cost-efficiency.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

I'm always trying to find why type 209 is better than Romeo in design, not about electronics, combat system and propulsion, as all of these can be upgraded. Would you be kind to offer some evidence? I'm not talking about Agosta 90B, and I know it is different from Agosta

bcoz there is a technological gap of mover 2o years... the design,the tech,propulsion system,armament, and all other capabiliyies like diving depth,speed,endurance etc is much more superior.


type-209:

romeo:

MESMA/AIP has low thermal efficiency, high noise, and medium cost-efficiency, while rumors say some type 035G have SE/AIP, which is mature, better thermal efficiency, low noise and best cost-efficiency.

Mesma is one of the most advanced system out there... originally designed for scorpene n agosta-90b..And in no way inferior but superior to sterling...As for a type 35 having an AIP... sounds like a joke... considering Chinas first sub to have AIP was the type 39!!! introduced in 2008!!

As of 2009, some nations have non-nuclear AIP submarines:
the French-Spanish Scorpène-class submarine (1,700 tonnes) (MESMA)
the Spanish S-80 class (2,400 tonnes) of the Spanish Navy
the German Type 209-1400mod (1,810 tonnes) (Fuel cell)
the German Type 212 submarine (1,830 tonnes) (Fuel cell) of the German Navy and Italian Navy
the German Type 214 (1,980 tonnes) (Fuel cell)
the Russian Project 677 Лада (Lada)
the Russian Project 1650 Амур (Amur)
the Japanese Asashio (2,750 tonnes) (Stirling AIP) of the Japan Maritime Self-Defense Force
the Japanese Sōryū class submarine (4,200 tonnes) (Stirling AIP) of the Japan Maritime Self-Defense Force
the Swedish Gotland class submarine (1,450 tonnes) (Stirling AIP) of the Swedish navy
the Swedish Södermanland class submarine (1,500 tonnes) (Stirling AIP) of the Swedish navy
Sweden is going to sell its remaining two Västergötland class submarines to the Republic of Singapore Navy after they have been refitted with Stirling AIP systems like the Södermanland class submarines.

the Chinese Type 041 Yuan class submarine (Stirling AIP) of the PLAN
Also several shipbuilders offer AIP upgrades for existing submarines:

German Nordseewerke (Closed-cycle diesel)
Sweden Kockums (Stirling), owned by German company ThyssenKrupp
Pakistan Agosta 90B class submarine Made with cooperation with France
French Scorpene made by French Company DCNS

MESMA® AIP System | DCNS


As of 2009, some nations have non-nuclear AIP submarines:

the French-Spanish Scorpène-class submarine (1,700 tonnes) (MESMA)
the Spanish S-80 class (2,400 tonnes) of the Spanish Navy
the German Type 209-1400mod (1,810 tonnes) (Fuel cell)
the German Type 212 submarine (1,830 tonnes) (Fuel cell) of the German Navy and Italian Navy
the German Type 214 (1,980 tonnes) (Fuel cell)
the Russian Project 677 Лада (Lada)
the Russian Project 1650 Амур (Amur)
the Japanese Asashio (2,750 tonnes) (Stirling AIP) of the Japan Maritime Self-Defense Force
the Japanese Sōryū class submarine (4,200 tonnes) (Stirling AIP) of the Japan Maritime Self-Defense Force
the Swedish Gotland class submarine (1,450 tonnes) (Stirling AIP) of the Swedish navy
the Swedish Södermanland class submarine (1,500 tonnes) (Stirling AIP) of the Swedish navy
Sweden is going to sell its remaining two Västergötland class submarines to the Republic of Singapore Navy after they have been refitted with Stirling AIP systems like the Södermanland class submarines.

the Chinese Type 041 Yuan class submarine (Stirling AIP) of the PLAN
Also several shipbuilders offer AIP upgrades for existing submarines:

German Nordseewerke (Closed-cycle diesel)
Sweden Kockums (Stirling), owned by German company ThyssenKrupp
Pakistan Agosta 90B class submarine Made with cooperation with France
French Scorpene made by French Company DCNS



Air-independent propulsion (AIP) is a term that encompasses technologies which allow a submarine to operate without the need to surface or use a snorkel to access atmospheric oxygen. The term usually excludes the use of nuclear power, and describes augmenting or replacing the diesel-electric propulsion system of non-nuclear vessels. The United States Navy uses the hull classification symbol "SSP" to designate boats powered by AIP, while retaining "SS" for classic diesel-electric attack submarines.[1]

AIP is usually implemented as an auxiliary source. Most such systems generate electricity which in turn drives an electric motor for propulsion or recharging the boat's batteries. The submarine's electrical system is also used to provide "hotel services"—ventilation, lighting, heating etc—although this consumes a small amount of power compared to that required for propulsion.

A benefit of this approach is that it can be retrofitted into existing submarine hulls by inserting an additional hull section. AIP does not normally provide the endurance or power to replace the atmospheric dependent propulsion, but allows it to remain submerged longer than a more conventionally propelled submarine. A typical conventional power plant will provide 3 megawatts maximum, and an AIP source around 10% of that. A nuclear submarine's propulsion plant is usually much greater than 20 megawatts.