Bangladesh Bought ‘Obsolete’ Chinese Submarines: Russian expert

[mb444]

Very integrated opinion. Agreed to all points.


2 ming +4 more will be 6 already!. The fleet size will be 8 then, including 2 new subs. The numbers don't add up. If you meant total 4 mings then it's ok.

This is my calculation, Two new subs by next 6-8 years, that's more or less done deal by now. But I don't think BN is buying more Ming class subs.

But it can be expected that, BN 's submarine fleet will have 6 operational submarines by 2030 .

Sorry I made an error... he said 2 more mings and then two new subs.

I suppose many won't like it because of the feeling that mings are obsolete. As a lifelong navy man his view was the subs are good. Almost quoting him word for word, BN sailors have had extensive training in subs and have also participated in Vessals that took part in NATO exercises. BD has enough training.... you don't spend $100m to buy something for training.... it costs £100k to train an officer and about £50-30k train others. BN has trained approximately 50 officers and several hundred sailers mechanics etc. BN will have trained for 2 years straight before taking delivery of the crafts. Training and familiarisation will continue with the Chinese continuously for the foreseeable future. For training and familiarisation the cheaper option would be to send your ppl abroad for years if need be. It would still cost nothing compared to buying a sub. BN is fully committed with the Chinese in many different project. The point is BN does not view the mings as training ship. They have been purchased to enforce our sovereignty and they believe these vessels can do that.

When the mings go operational with BN they will be fully "Operational". The survey ships BN bought several years ago have mapped the bay and particularly our territory for our subs. He was expecting doubling of the navy in the next 10 years.

Do you think it is only interest of china purpose ? Or their own benefit ?

I do not understand your question. Please expand and I will answer.

 

[Major d1]

@mb444 - i said it is comprehensive and combined relationship between china and Bangladesh.

 

[mb444]

@mb444 - i said it is comprehensive and combined relationship between china and Bangladesh.

I am in complete agreement

 

[Zabaniyah]

They are old, yes. But that wasn't the point.

Although....maybe it's just me, but $200 million sounds a bit much to me. I could be wrong though.

 

[somebozo]

Something is better than nothing..this is first step for BD navy to begin operating submarines...so its the start of building capability..not the end of it..my warmest congrats to BD.

 

[BDforever]

They are old, yes. But that wasn't the point.

Although....maybe it's just me, but $200 million sounds a bit much to me. I could be wrong though.

i heard bd bought whole set up, meaning bd will supply its own spare parts.

 

[Zabaniyah]

i heard bd bought whole set up, meaning bd will supply its own spare parts.

If that is true, then it is great. It is not the weapon that concerns me. It is how we are going to sustain that system in a war scenario. I'm sure the military has this in mind.

It reminds me....'It's not the size of the hammer than counts, it's how you wield it!'

 

[Arthur]

i heard bd bought whole set up, meaning bd will supply its own spare parts.

If that is true, then it is great. It is not the weapon that concerns me. It is how we are going to sustain that system in a war scenario. I'm sure the military has this in mind.

It reminds me....'It's not the size of the hammer than counts, it's how you wield it!'

Apparently the deal includes :

" setting up the shore infrastructure like repair yards, training facilities and operational support establishments for smooth conduct of submarine operations."

 

[The SC]

Well it still has potential... a Ming in recent years got within 5 miles of a US aircraft carrier while it was being protected with its battle group... Americans were surprised they didn't detect it...

It might be based on tech of the 50s but that 50s sub is much smaller in size and which itself was based on ww1 German subs...
So in theory it was obsolete when it was made in 50s?
Technically yes but a blunt knife is still a knife if can still make you bleed...
Technology progresses by basing on previous tech...
f22 just didn't come into being... it still has things that was used in older fighters.
But yes I get your point. 1 improved kilo class would have been better than buying two of em.
But most probably the Russians weren't willing to sell us anything at the time because India. And also because foreign weapon vendors aren't interested in Bangladesh because of how much they bargain/ how little they buy... so yeah

1 Kilo class costs at least 300 to 350 million $, improved one is 350 to 400 million $

 

[Michael Corleone]

1 Kilo class costs at least 300 to 350 million $, improved one is 350 to 400 million $

Guess bd had no other option in that price range then. Nevertheless something to get em started is better than nothing.

 

[Exiled_Soldier]

Apr 8, 2014


Bangladesh Navy’s Ming Class Subs

Dhaka is purchasing two submarines from China in a deal that has portends of increasing militarisation of the Bay of Bengal. Beijing had asked for $203 million when two sides began final negotiations in November 2013, according to officials. Dhaka managed to reduce the submarines’ price by $10 million, or around Tk 80 crore, after bargaining with Beijing early this year as per a New Age Bangladesh report.

Dhaka has finally signed a deal with Beijing for the purchase of two submarines for $193 million. These submarines of Ming class will have capacity of firing anti-ship missiles from its torpedo tubes and are to be delivered in 2019 as per the New Age. Bangladesh Navy personnel are already carrying out submarine training in China as per reports.

The Ming class of Chinese submarines is an adaptation of the diesel or electric Romeo class submarine built by the Soviet Union, which in turn was based on the German Type XXI submarine of World War II. Reports indicate that Bangladesh will be purchasing the advanced version of Ming class submarine, Type 035G which has low acoustic signature with larger space for weaponry. The capability of the sub may be limited to coastal defence and surveillance possibly the task envisaged by Bangladesh Navy.

http://www.security-risks.com/secur...ladesh-navys-ming-class-subs-coming-2595.html

I want to really believe BD submarines can fire AShMs. Can you share more info about this that similar Chinese submarines are using them. I know they have capability to fire those missiles. But not sure Chinese sub borne C801 or C802 missile system is coming with them or BD has considered them or not.

The compact size of C-801 also made it obvious candidate for a submarine-launched version, first deployed on board a modified Romeo Class submarine designated as Type 033G, with NATO reporting name Wuhan A class, carrying 6 missiles, 3 on each side of the sail.[4] Originally, the submarine must surface to fire the missiles, and only a single unit went into the service for trial purposes, but the same boat was also participated heavily in the development of a submerged-launched version launched from torpedo tubes designated as YJ-1.[5] Once YJ-1 was successfully developed, it became a primary weapon for other Chinese submarines for more than a decade until be superseded by the submerged-launched version of C-801 follow-on such as C-802. Although superseded by its follow on, C-801 still remains in low-scale production for export, with one of the biggest customer being Iran.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YJ-8

 

[The SC]

I want to really believe BD submarines can fire AShMs. Can you share more info about this that similar Chinese submarines are using them. I know they have capability to fire those missiles. But not sure Chinese sub borne C801 or C802 missile system is coming with them or BD has considered them or not.

See post # 19, it says they can be fired from the torpedo tubes, don't know if they are already present on the one delivered or will be available in 2019!?

 

[Mo12]

Bangladesh should be spending more on river defences to stop flooding, than buying submarines

 

[rome333]

Bangladesh should be spending more on river defences to stop flooding, than buying submarines

May be you sould be telling India to open up the Teesta gates while time remains or get ready to face the music.

 

[Bilal9]

improved one is 350 to 400 million $

That is the latest version, Kilo Project 636 Varshavyanka.

The Vietnamese Navy and PLAN are the most recent owners of this version. Indian Sindhughosh class is older project 877. There are significant differences. Indian units are going through expensive refits. In December 2015, L&T was chosen by the Russian shipbuilder Sevmash to be its Indian partner in the refit project.

Indian Sindhughosh class has had a rash of unfortunate incidents concerning their Kilos (fires, explosions etc.) which raises quite a few questions regarding the reliability of these subs. Maybe @Penguin bhai can express some opinion.

• On 10 January 2008, INS Sindhughosh collided with the cargo ship MV Leeds Castle. The submarine was reported to have sustained superficial damage to its conning tower. As a result, the submarine was out of service for a month. The cargo ship was in restricted shallow waters.[11]
• On 26 February 2010, a fire on board INS Sindhurakshak killed one sailor and injured two others. The fire was due to a defective battery.[12]
• On 14 August 2013 an explosion, followed by a fire, was reported to have occurred on Sindhurakshak.[13] Sindhurakshak sank in the dock.
• On 17 January 2014, Sindhughosh ran aground due to the low tide, while returning to the Naval Dockyard, Mumbai.[14]
• On 26 February 2014, smoke was detected on board INS Sindhuratna resulting in 7 sailors being rendered unconscious and two dead. Those unconscious were airlifted to hospital [15]

Price per unit (with adjuncts and spares) is US$200–250 million per copy.

Bangladesh should be spending more on river defences to stop flooding, than buying submarines

Rivers are dredged more frequently than any other country, being that we have so many and quite a few large ones.

About 700 rivers including tributaries flow through the country constituting a waterway of total length around 24,140 kilometres (15,000 mi).