Bangladesh Army

[JohnWick]

...

 

[leonblack08]

It will look supremely bad for Bangladesh Govt. to buy Indian weapons publicly. It is more of an 'optics' issue.

I have it on extremely (extremely!) credible Army sources that RAW does have a whole floor of sectioned off area for RAW use at Army HQ (that Bangladesh Army seniors themselves cannot go into) and scrutinizes all Army purchases/activity/logistics and keeps tabs on them per orders from New Delhi. I will not disclose who they are for obvious reasons but come on - this is an open secret already, every one in the Army knows. Has been going on for years now....

The opposition and the Jamatis would have a field day with public purchase of Indian weapons and the viability of Hasina's rule will become questionable. The risk is not worth the profits.

Bangladesh Govt. already allows almost $6~7 Billion yearly for all types of non-defence Indian imports LEGALLY (ILLEGALLY through SMUGGLING probably again as much totaling around $10 Billion or so yearly). Thanks to Indians bribing our ministers and manipulating our trade policy by lowering tariffs for Indian benefit.

We export a paltry $600 million or so yearly to India in return (Thanks to their Tariff and Non-Tariff barriers).

Case in Point, they may have bribed the current food minister - Sadhan Chandra Majumdar, a few crore and he lowered the tariff on rice from 62.5% down to 25% recently to allow import of Indian rice.

This corrupt moron then proceeded to buy 1.5 Million tons of Rice from India to Bangladesh, when Bangladesh is a net exporters of rice. I don't know how much Indian traders profited, but you can imagine it is not a small amount. And this is just what is publicly disclosed, there could be more undisclosed impropriety. Here is the news,

https://indiaseatradenews.com/bangladesh-import-700000t-of-rice-from-india-in-6-months/

Why did we appoint this RAW agent Hindu as a food minister? I am sure Indian machinations were at play to no small amount (via Hasina), for him being in place to this much damage and to be India-friendly.

I think that is just an inkling showing how much damage (Trade Deficit) which has been going on yearly for the last fifty years (some $10 Billion on average yearly for the last twenty and maybe half as much for the previous thirty years before that).

No nation on earth (that I know) runs a trade deficit like this with their neighbor on an uneven keel, and for so long. Fifty years of screwing over that still continues!

Plus our armed forces are already standardized on Chinese weapons and expendables (ammunition). To switch to Indian weapons now would be rather expensive (both standardization and training-wise). When one weighs the benefits vs. liabilities, it is better not to import Indian weapons publicly.

We did buy Indian trucks and logistics vehicles (Tata). That publicity alone was not good for the govt. as I recall.

We don't need to buy small arms and ammunition from India. We make plenty ourselves (including small guided missiles, in Joydevpur armory).


Having C-802s, subs and TRG-300s does not matter a lot, if Indians are controlling the personnel (chain of command). Think clearly please.


It is better to think carefully why things happen - and what is at stake.

Think about all angles - and present your arguments.

Sorry bro, can't agree with you in entirety. The whole point of covert op is to be secretive. Why on earth would RAW need an entire floor in BA HQ? Wouldn't that defeat the purpose of being a covert op? Especially if they already have the top generals in their pockets. It absolutely does not make sense and cannot agree with it.

Having said that I don't deny that it is possible that India may have certain top generals under their influence. The same could be said of Chinese as well.

If India did really exert such influence on BA, then that would reflect on the policy and procurement. Clearly we see no such impact is visible based on procurement history.

 

[Bilal9]

Sorry bro, can't agree with you in entirety. The whole point of covert op is to be secretive. Why on earth would RAW need an entire floor in BA HQ? Wouldn't that defeat the purpose of being a covert op? Especially if they already have the top generals in their pockets. It absolutely does not make sense and cannot agree with it.

Having said that I don't deny that it is possible that India may have certain top generals under their influence. The same could be said of Chinese as well.

If India did really exert such influence on BA, then that would reflect on the policy and procurement. Clearly we see no such impact is visible based on procurement history.

You do have good points but I am just going by my reports from what I've heard from senior Army sources. I am no expert so take my views with a grain of salt. But what I am about to tell you is well-known and an open secret in Senior BA circles.

Indian influence is not supposed to force Bangladesh to buy or procure arms from India.

Clearly they cannot even put together their own weapons successfully, as visible from multiple unsuccessful projects going on and bleeding inane amounts of money for two/three decades now - even after wholesale import/integration of superbly mature foreign subcomponents such as French/US engines, electronics, avionics, elastomeric heli-hubs and various other systems. They have severe issues on their weapons integration side, with rare claimed exceptions. They have a yawning gap on weapons technology they are trying to close. Indian strategists and Chanakya foreign policy planners know this very, very well. They are not clueless.

So - efficient weapons production juggernauts like the Chinese, Indians are NOT. They cannot beat the Chinese on either weapons quality or price. They exert influence through our BA commanders (Generals) , which is far more effective. They have Hasina in their pocket, so it was only a question of time before they got to control our armed services Generals, Air Commodores, Admirals.

Indians want to neutralize not only our offensive but our defensive military capability as well. If it were up to India, and if our army was not going to unseat Hasina the next day, they'd be very happy if Hasina dissolved our military. They'd gladly take over the job to 'protect' us. The more neutered we are, the happier Indian planners in New Delhi would be.

In fact I'd go so far to say that they actually do not care what type of sophisticated weapon system (toys) Bangladesh Army, Navy or AF buys, but ONLY UP TO A POINT WHERE IT DOES NOT EXCEED THEIR CAPABILITY TO HANDLE THEM. That is why they have our generals in their pocket, trying to keep tabs on things and intervene in advance (in weapons planning phase) when necessary.

This new General to succeed General Aziz was planned as successor back in June last year (in the middle of covid no less) around the time Aziz-Gate broke, if you remember. When Bangladeshi Generals (hitherto unknown) fly to New Delhi to meet with Indian diplomats, you can guess some jig is up.

This guy was to meet very senior Indian defence and intelligence staff, to get okayed by them and get his specific directives and have him briefed on specific Indian concerns . I am sure the information exchange was two-way.

Before he was picked as the next Army Chief after Aziz, Hasina was presented with a few choices by the Indians, I am sure. They are that far informed about our staff into picking our next commander in chief. They make that safe choice, not Hasina. Hasina has entrusted her safety in Indian hands.

Whether you believe me or not is up to you, but this is my information.

Indians want to exert control and gather information for two reasons,

1. That Bangladesh next door does not become another unstable Jamati/Taliban den of terrorist like Afghanistan has become, which (now that the Americans have left) is out of control of Indian sphere of influence. If Bangladesh becomes uncontrollable and unstable, that could destabilize the entire NE India and invite China to invade and occupy this area.

2. That Bangladesh remains a cash-cow to India, a superbly profitable advanced market for their industrial and agri goods. Their contractors have so far effed up almost every major project in Bangladesh, but any industry established in Bangladesh will always use cheap Indian industrial inputs and machinery, such as industrial boilers, washers, pharma machinery, rice mills, flour mills, you name it. Even after we started importing stuff from China, Indian imports have not decreased in real terms that much. Plus the staple agri products like fruit, eggs, construction materials like clinker, agri raw materials like Cotton bales, thread and dyestuff that is easy to truck in over the border is very lucrative. That market is easy for India to exploit and they have been exploiting it to their advantage (over $10 Billion a year for the last twenty and $5 Billion on average a year for the previous thirty years). All of WB, Bihar, MP, some parts of UP depends on supplying Bangladesh with industrial products and inputs. They don't want these areas to suffer which could prove problematic.

Which means whatever TRG MLRS or old MING subs we have bought that we're so excited about, poses relatively no threat to their offensive capability, it remains below their threat perception threshold, unlike anything of Pakistan's does.

They want to and WILL keep it that way. They are doing everything to ensure that, including controlling our armed forces.

Look at our indigenous Frigate program, our fighter modernization, where do you think these projects get blocked? Can you venture a guess?

I know they manufactured a minor media drama on MINGs on TV with comments from Veena Sikri and all, but that is just showboating. Old MINGs are training platforms. Nothing more, mothing less. Mings have nothing over far superior and modern subs Indians own and operate. Indian Navy (in spite of the jokes we make) is probably the more powerful of all three armed services in India. Our Navy (sad fact) is nothing in front of Indian Naval experience and arsenal. Never underestimate your enemies.

Pakistan is self-sufficient in weapons production and integration and Indians have no control over Pakistan. Indians will do their best to ensure that Bangladesh does not become another Pakistan and does not become a threat too unwieldy to handle. Because a two front war could prove un-winnable and at the least could drag on and become a hemorrhage.

They did saajish since 1952 and intervened in 1971 in Bangladesh for a reason. They do NOT want to lose that advantage they currently have.

That is the reason they are and will continue to - exert influence and make sure Bangladesh remains under their thumb. Overtly and covertly.

So what is the sum total of this gloomy outlook? Is there a silver lining?

I leave that for you guys to shed lights on.

 

[Jobless Jack]

You do have good points but I am just going by my reports from what I've heard from senior Army sources. I am no expert so take my views with a grain of salt. But what I am about to tell you is well-known and an open secret in Senior BA circles.

Indian influence is not supposed to force Bangladesh to buy or procure arms from India.

Clearly they cannot even put together their own weapons successfully, as visible from multiple unsuccessful projects going on and bleeding inane amounts of money for two/three decades now - even after wholesale import/integration of superbly mature foreign subcomponents such as French/US engines, electronics, avionics, elastomeric heli-hubs and various other systems. They have severe issues on their weapons integration side, with rare claimed exceptions. They have a yawning gap on weapons technology they are trying to close. Indian strategists and Chanakya foreign policy planners know this very, very well. They are not clueless.

So - efficient weapons production juggernauts like the Chinese, Indians are NOT. They cannot beat the Chinese on either weapons quality or price. They exert influence through our BA commanders (Generals) , which is far more effective. They have Hasina in their pocket, so it was only a question of time before they got to control our armed services Generals, Air Commodores, Admirals.

Indians want to neutralize not only our offensive but our defensive military capability as well. If it were up to India, and if our army was not going to unseat Hasina the next day, they'd be very happy if Hasina dissolved our military. They'd gladly take over the job to 'protect' us. The more neutered we are, the happier Indian planners in New Delhi would be.

In fact I'd go so far to say that they actually do not care what type of sophisticated weapon system (toys) Bangladesh Army, Navy or AF buys, but ONLY UP TO A POINT WHERE IT DOES NOT EXCEED THEIR CAPABILITY TO HANDLE THEM. That is why they have our generals in their pocket, trying to keep tabs on things and intervene in advance (in weapons planning phase) when necessary.

This new General to succeed General Aziz was planned as successor back in June last year (in the middle of covid no less) around the time Aziz-Gate broke, if you remember. When Bangladeshi Generals (hitherto unknown) fly to New Delhi to meet with Indian diplomats, you can guess some jig is up.

This guy was to meet very senior Indian defence and intelligence staff, to get okayed by them and get his specific directives and have him briefed on specific Indian concerns . I am sure the information exchange was two-way.

Before he was picked as the next Army Chief after Aziz, Hasina was presented with a few choices by the Indians, I am sure. They are that far informed about our staff into picking our next commander in chief. They make that safe choice, not Hasina. Hasina has entrusted her safety in Indian hands.

Whether you believe me or not is up to you, but this is my information.

Indians want to exert control and gather information for two reasons,

1. That Bangladesh next door does not become another unstable Jamati/Taliban den of terrorist like Afghanistan has become, which (now that the Americans have left) is out of control of Indian sphere of influence. If Bangladesh becomes uncontrollable and unstable, that could destabilize the entire NE India and invite China to invade and occupy this area.

2. That Bangladesh remains a cash-cow to India, a superbly profitable advanced market for their industrial and agri goods. Their contractors have so far effed up almost every major project in Bangladesh, but any industry established in Bangladesh will always use cheap Indian industrial inputs and machinery, such as industrial boilers, washers, pharma machinery, rice mills, flour mills, you name it. Even after we started importing stuff from China, Indian imports have not decreased in real terms that much. Plus the staple agri products like fruit, eggs, construction materials like clinker, agri raw materials like Cotton bales, thread and dyestuff that is easy to truck in over the border is very lucrative. That market is easy for India to exploit and they have been exploiting it to their advantage (over $10 Billion a year for the last twenty and $5 Billion on average a year for the previous thirty years). All of WB, Bihar, MP, some parts of UP depends on supplying Bangladesh with industrial products and inputs. They don't want these areas to suffer which could prove problematic.

Which means whatever TRG MLRS or old MING subs we have bought that we're so excited about, poses relatively no threat to their offensive capability, it remains below their threat perception threshold, unlike anything of Pakistan's does.

They want to and WILL keep it that way. They are doing everything to ensure that, including controlling our armed forces.

Look at our indigenous Frigate program, our fighter modernization, where do you think these projects get blocked? Can you venture a guess?

I know they manufactured a minor media drama on MINGs on TV with comments from Veena Sikri and all, but that is just showboating. Old MINGs are training platforms. Nothing more, mothing less. Mings have nothing over far superior and modern subs Indians own and operate. Indian Navy (in spite of the jokes we make) is probably the more powerful of all three armed services in India. Our Navy (sad fact) is nothing in front of Indian Naval experience and arsenal. Never underestimate your enemies.

Pakistan is self-sufficient in weapons production and integration and Indians have no control over Pakistan. Indians will do their best to ensure that Bangladesh does not become another Pakistan and does not become a threat too unwieldy to handle. Because a two front war could prove un-winnable and at the least could drag on and become a hemorrhage.

They did saajish since 1952 and intervened in 1971 in Bangladesh for a reason. They do NOT want to lose that advantage they currently have.

That is the reason they are and will continue to - exert influence and make sure Bangladesh remains under their thumb. Overtly and covertly.

So what is the sum total of this gloomy outlook? Is there a silver lining?

I leave that for you guys to shed lights on.

You are giving indians far MORE credit than credit is due.

Let me present to you a hypothetical case. Say BD invests in massive conventional capability with all the latest tech hardware. Then what? Unless BD follows a doctorine similar to what the israeli's did in the yom kippur war, it is pointless. BD cant do that as india is a nuclear power and if you sieze indian territory , you will invite nuclear retaliation. BD cannot beat india convetionally unless bd builds its own nukes.

Therefore BD military at its current state is more than adequete to resist indian agression in a defensive war ( unconventional).

All that is needed is developing a strong missile force, a strong SAM network.

A BD india war will be in the similar vein of the Iraq - iran war in the 1980's in the early stage followed by the way taliban fought against NATO in the later stage.



Therefore it is far more benefitial for BD to invest in the ansar force. And create a people militia via conscription.
.

The above mentioned tactics is will be far more valuable than investing in the latest hardware.

Gen Aziz, despite his faults, got it correct with regards to national defense.

This is why India wants to keep your generals and leaders in their pocket. To put a muzzle on BD. They know that If india gets into a slogging match with BD indian state will go bankrupt in a year. BD already has more than enough tools to cook indian goose. Its Just due to indian influence your leaders are not pulling the trigger. Which makes india happy. They like to keep things this way.

 

[Anubis]

@Bilal9 @Jobless Jack ...If India were hell-bent on invading then nothing BD does would hold them back...The sheer size of their military in our context would be like the USSR...however, what we can do is make sure the threat of attrition, once they are here, is so immense that they stay back...our conventional capability is probably targetted towards potential enemies we can hold back and that is MM.

 

[SpaceMan18]

I wonder when are we going to buy some dam MRSAMs ?

 

[Jobless Jack]

@Bilal9 @Jobless Jack ...If India were hell-bent on invading then nothing BD does would hold them back...The sheer size of their military in our context would be like the USSR...however, what we can do is make sure the threat of attrition, once they are here, is so immense that they stay back...our conventional capability is probably targetted towards potential enemies we can hold back and that is MM.

Exactly.

If BD wants to defend themselves from Indian aggression . Then developing excellent asymmetrical warfare capability is the way to go. This means the Ansar force must be given better training , equipment and drones must be brought into their arsenal. Along with this national conscription to a certain level.

Even if BD develops a world class airforce today, it wont deter India. BAF, even armed to teeth with 160 + 4 gen MRCA will be able to stand up to IAF for 7-10 days max. If that money is invested into building up asymmetrical warfare capabilities , then you can imagine .

Criticize general Aziz all you want. But as chief , He has done an excellent job.

 

[Michael Corleone]

Why are we getting VT5s?? It has steel armor that any modern APFSDS will penetrate..type 59 has very old composite armor that any modern apfsds will penetrate...what purpose will it serve that type59(durjoy) couldn't?? VT5 with armor package weighs around 36tonnes...type 59 weighs around the same at basic config...how much could the era and the new gun possibly add? 4 tonnes?? durjoy still has a bigger gun...the only upside I see is that VT5 has better power to weight ratio...is that it? or are there any other upsides?

They’re tanks for different tactics. I would say you would use MBT 2000 to command t59 platoons. T59 will be the numbers tank that will have to take cover behind objects… peek and shoot scenario. Mbt 2000 isn’t good on the armor either atleast by modern standards but the adversaries it will face, it can take head on engagement. Whereas vt5 will operate as a light tank with tactics similar to AMX 120 always on the move.

VT5 was specifically designed to be nimble in traversing mountaineous terrain.

Though if you asked me, I'd prefer a wheeled tank over any tracked vehicle any day, for that role. Way more nimble in turning circles than any tracked vehicle.

This is a Centauro B1T (Italy). JASDF has a similar vehicle, but as we all know - Japan does not sell defence items to other countries. Even if they did, they'd be much more expensive than other competitive items worldwide.

I love this thing

what do you mean???
tracked vehicles could turning 360 degrees without moving forward an inch.
German example:

though tracked vehicles have a lower top speed, over rough terrain, tracked vehicles are actually faster.
VT5 is meant for high altitudes and very rough terrain ,in such a situation it could run circles around something like the type-59, since its engines are optimize to keep providing high power at such altitudes while something like the type-59 might lose 40% of its engine power.

Tracked has problems with infrastructure that’s the only issue I can think of

There are new videos describing the new Army Chief. Apparently the guy is a full Hasina compliant guy, and no less of an India shill than Aziz was. A very big disappointment for Bangladeshis since this guy was called to new Delhi to get their directives last June 2020 and was also complicit in some criminal activity just like Aziz. Dr. Taj Hashmi explains (sorry Bengali only),

Truly sad, that all qualified people have left Bangladesh, so thugs and thieves are running Bangladesh at high levels.

In some ways Dr. Taj Hashmi's description is hilarious.

I thank god alright for sending me to Soviet Union instead of bangladesh army

 

[F-6 enthusiast]

They’re tanks for different tactics. I would say you would use MBT 2000 to command t59 platoons. T59 will be the numbers tank that will have to take cover behind objects… peek and shoot scenario. Mbt 2000 isn’t good on the armor either atleast by modern standards but the adversaries it will face, it can take head on engagement. Whereas vt5 will operate as a light tank with tactics similar to AMX 120 always on the move.

Welcome back !
MBT 2000 with 125-I projectile (i think can also be fired from Durjoy) can penetrate T-90S upper front plate (driver's hatch) with some effort and lower front plate. The Turret is immune though.
Indian T-90S and T-72M have the 3BM42 Mango which is a soviet 80s era round with only 273mm at 60 degrees for 2km (not a good round by modern standards)


Also anyone know why BA don't have IFV like BMP-2 ? APC cannot be subtitute for IFV, they're just too lightly armed.

 

[Bilal9]

Who are these Taj Hashmi people? Maybe aligned with BNP...

BTW @Michael Corleone welcome back...

 

[Bilal9]

Welcome back !
MBT 2000 with 125-I projectile (i think can also be fired from Durjoy) can penetrate T-90S upper front plate (driver's hatch) with some effort and lower front plate. The Turret is immune though.
Indian T-90S and T-72M have the 3BM42 Mango which is a soviet 80s era round with only 273mm at 60 degrees for 2km (not a good round by modern standards)

Necessity is the mother of invention. Back in WWII when Germans were running out of using sophisticated armor plate for their Tigers and Panthers, they use simple high-strength concrete plates for front plate. Ditto with some later version American Shermans. Very effective (and cheap!)

More recently - Syrians used Barbed wire and cinder blocks/stone around turrets. In Bangladesh we can use sandbags I guess or hardened cement bags.

Also anyone know why BA don't have IFV like BMP-2 ? APC cannot be subtitute for IFV, they're just too lightly armed.

আমিও এইডাই কই...

 

[Michael Corleone]

Welcome back !
MBT 2000 with 125-I projectile (i think can also be fired from Durjoy) can penetrate T-90S upper front plate (driver's hatch) with some effort and lower front plate. The Turret is immune though.
Indian T-90S and T-72M have the 3BM42 Mango which is a soviet 80s era round with only 273mm at 60 degrees for 2km (not a good round by modern standards)


Also anyone know why BA don't have IFV like BMP-2 ? APC cannot be subtitute for IFV, they're just too lightly armed.

Thanks
Yep. T90s hull is based on the t80 which itself is based on 72… which itself is evolution of t64 it’s a really old design that haven’t changed much since the new tanks after ww2. The hull won’t win awards but then no modern tank would except m1abrams with depleted uranium armor.
I’m very keen to learn more about armata though it seems it’s by far the most advance tank design to date

mbt 2000 hull is also a t72 base which makes it vulnerable to auto loader cook off
I hope they don’t store extra ammo around the driver a small penetration or even armor shrapnel fragmentation inside will lead to disastrous result for the ammo, it’s not even worth mentioning crew injury

 

[F-6 enthusiast]

We should get BMP-2M

it's amphibious too so it suits our terrain.
can carry eight ppl.
4 kornet ATGM (4 more in storage) with 1300mm penetration and can be fired on the move, also they can be ripple fired (to beat APS) or guided on seperate targets by commander and gunner. not to mention the 30mm main gun and grenade launcher.

or we can get bmp-3

with less antitank capability. it has 100mm gun that can be used as mobile artillery piece+ 30mm main gun. Can also launch 100mm ATGM with penetration of 750mm (Kornet has 152mm diameter and 1300mm penetration). Also amphiboius and has variable suspension for hilly terrain.

EDIT:Hydropneumatic suspension.

 

[monitor]

 

[Destranator]

I have it on extremely (extremely!) credible Army sources that RAW does have a whole floor of sectioned off area for RAW use at Army HQ (that Bangladesh Army seniors themselves cannot go into) and scrutinizes all Army purchases/activity/logistics and keeps tabs on them per orders from New Delhi. I will not disclose who they are for obvious reasons but come on - this is an open secret already, every one in the Army knows. Has been going on for years now....

I can confirm that this is not correct. I would suggest not believing anything this source of yours tells you anymore.