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Ban imposed on clerics in Islamabad

It is a cyclic system. The Madressas feed this Masjid employment and it is a small cottage industry in itself. But these seminaries are teaching extremism and hatred most of the time and it propagates through society. So either ALL Masjid Imams need to be vetted as is done in Turkey @HAKIKAT , or they need to be eliminated all together.

The madressa in general has no positive impact on Pakistani society besides providing housing for the poor in return for turning them into hateful bigots and extremists.

It's not true in all cases, there hundred and thousand on madressa in the world and not all turn their students in to extermist. I will give you few examples, Azadville, south Africa; Panama.city Panama; Caracas, Venezuela; Harare; Zahedan, Iran and many many more.
 
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We also need to control kuffar/bidat/religous jahalat, grave worshiping, jali babas, jali taweez ganda, urs and lavish Eid milad un nabi celebration. Instread of spending money on lights and jaloos, we should collect the money to feed the poor people.

I have also talked about this in my previous posts. We need a Islamic research institutes to establish true islamic way of life and it should reflect the true teaching of Islam.
Your true way is not my true way and is not the next posters true way. The second you think you have the true way, there is no difference between you and the swat taliban.

Banning what are excessive but harmless activities is like spending billions on dental hygiene while ignoring cancer. Regardless of how wrong or right I think certain activities at the graves of Sufi saints occur; none of them have tried to harass me, attack me or criticize me based on my looks and tell me about the "true" way of Islam.

I prefer letting better understanding and dialogue solve allegations of bidat and leave it to Allah whose actual responsibility it is and NOT yours or mine; and focus on solving religious hatred, child marriage, sodomy and murder by the more dangerous extremists born out of Madressas which are an actual threat to human beings.

It's not true in all cases, there hundred and thousand on madressa in the world and not all turn their students in to extermist. I will give you few examples, Azadville, south Africa; Panama.city Panama; Caracas, Venezuela; Harare; Zahedan, Iran and many many more.
I think you missed where I mentioned the ones in Pakistan.
 
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It is a cyclic system. The Madressas feed this Masjid employment and it is a small cottage industry in itself. But these seminaries are teaching extremism and hatred most of the time and it propagates through society. So either ALL Masjid Imams need to be vetted as is done in Turkey @HAKIKAT , or they need to be eliminated all together.

The madressa in general has no positive impact on Pakistani society besides providing housing for the poor in return for turning them into hateful bigots and extremists.

Very very sensitive topic, and I am no expert. I can say this much, from the Turkish experience off course, Din shouldn't be a tool for Siyaset, but Siyaset may be a tool for Din. In the present era of so much Fitne and Fesat (read proxy wars), better to keep Mosques, Garrisons and Schools out of Siyaset. Medresa education reform was a very hot topic ~100 years back during the Ottoman times. One great Ustad gave this suggestion - introduce physical sciences in the religious schools, and religious sciences in public schools. As is the case in the Turkish Republic, all subjects in public schools (math, science, arts etc.) are taught in Imam Hatip Schools (modern version of Medresa), so that graduates can go to the Faculty of Divinity or chose any other subjects in the university. For example, the current President and Finance Minister and many MPs are graduates of Imam Hatip Schools but finished different faculties. The bottom line is - (i) all Imam Hatip Schools graduates must be entitled to pursue any trade they wish, (ii) if somebody chooses to be Imam or Hatip, he'll be employed by the state, (iii) religious education and services and publications are strictly under the state control, and (iv) nobody other than the state has the final say in state policies, off course consultation with the religious authorities are done.
 
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Your true way is not my true way and is not the next posters true way. The second you think you have the true way, there is no difference between you and the swat taliban.

Banning what are excessive but harmless activities is like spending billions on dental hygiene while ignoring cancer. Regardless of how wrong or right I think certain activities at the graves of Sufi saints occur; none of them have tried to harass me, attack me or criticize me based on my looks and tell me about the "true" way of Islam.

I prefer letting better understanding and dialogue solve allegations of bidat and leave it to Allah whose actual responsibility it is and NOT yours or mine; and focus on solving religious hatred, child marriage, sodomy and murder by the more dangerous extremists born out of Madressas which are an actual threat to human beings.


I think you missed where I mentioned the ones in Pakistan.

Focus on things that everyone can agree on and discuss the sensitive things or controversial things.
Everyone will agree to work toward reducing religous intolerance.
Everyone would agree about reducing Religous Jahalat, catching Jali babas, jali taweez ganda.
Everyone would agree on bannding those molvis who are spreading Jahalat and bidat and graveworshiping.

Graveworshiping is nothing new, it was practiced by early arabs also but now you hardly find anyone worshiping grave in Arab world. You find it Iran, Pakistan and India.

Everyone would agree on controling of drug usage, dancing and all the wrong activites that take place at urs. It has become a business rather than religous practice.
 
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How about banning all clerics and encouraging a rotating Imam policy for a neighborhood? Mosque's can be cleaned by government appointed cleaners, a Muezzin can be hired whose only job is to give the Azaan and if the common muslim cannot lead others in prayer than they should be ashamed of themselves.

End Clerics - Save Muslims.

The Masjid i go to is most busy in giving sermons about Qabar ka Azzab and Maut ke pehle ke Lamhaat .. your Suggestion is not practical and if Govt will force their implication on it than it will create more chaos .. this religion and Cleric issues needs to be settles but slowly any sudden moves and thousands will take the Streets shouting " Yahoodo Sazish " and break some precious bus stops and streets light ...
 
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The Masjid i go to is most busy in giving sermons about Qabar ka Azzab and Maut ke pehle ke Lamhaat .. your Suggestion is not practical and if Govt will force their implication on it than it will create more chaos .. this religion and Cleric issues needs to be settles but slowly any sudden moves and thousands will take the Streets shouting " Yahoodo Sazish " and break some precious bus stops and streets light ...
The idea is not to end it overnight, but a comprehensive cleanup spanned over 5-10 years.
 
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If you accuse Muslim of worshiping pious awliya then you have no idea about Islam any Muslim scholar or jahil will never worship other then allah this lie is spread by deobandies and khawarij petrodollarmolvies.
Who have no knowledge of Islam .
Shahaba used to go to the grave of prophet Muhammad sallalaho allaihi wasallum and ask for food rain and victory so it's not new in Islam .
Refrain from spreading lies .

Focus on things that everyone can agree on and discuss the sensitive things or controversial things.
Everyone will agree to work toward reducing religous intolerance.
Everyone would agree about reducing Religous Jahalat, catching Jali babas, jali taweez ganda.
Everyone would agree on bannding those molvis who are spreading Jahalat and bidat and graveworshiping.

Graveworshiping is nothing new, it was practiced by early arabs also but now you hardly find anyone worshiping grave in Arab world. You find it Iran, Pakistan and India.

Everyone would agree on controling of drug usage, dancing and all the wrong activites that take place at urs. It has become a business rather than religous practice.
 
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Four of the clerics belong to the Deobandi school of thought, four to the Shia community and three are Barelvis.

This clearly shows that koi kisi sa kam nahi ha !

Thats how KSA has streamlined all of its Masajids and Madrassas. Even the Jumma, Eid Sermon is written and sent by Ministry of Religious Affairs. No sectarian haterd is allowed to be uttered anywhere even if it is supposedly the most anti Shia country. People might not like it but this is need of the hour that Pakistan needs esp with regards to curbing the "unknown funding sources" of Madrassas and different Clerics in the country. This holds true not only for Muslims but also for all Religions in Pakistan.

Shut down charities and trusts run by clerics and that would cut the funding source by 90%...
 
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The idea is not to end it overnight, but a comprehensive cleanup spanned over 5-10 years.

that is already happening ... i can confirm you that on grass root level .. a lot of people i know of those who somehow try to justify the Violence in past are now openly cursing the Taliban and Religious extremism . but it will take time , as you say cleanup over a 5-10 years time ..
 
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Shut down charities and trusts run by clerics and that would cut the funding source by 90%...

They ll change the name and front man for all these things but problem wud remain the very same. Best way is to regulate all these from top till bottom.
 
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for me islam is place for cadet training, job training, faming, gym fitness, boxing, sword fighting, learn metal work.

for example in islam no luxury but neccessity is survival traning and humbleness.

horse riding, sewing, gym, swimming, go camping, learn to farm, learn islam n philopsy, monetary system, learn zabah and gusal, learn arabic language. etc. but imams buy mercedes n marrys girl younger dn his daughter.
 
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Reading about Turkeys religious teaching methods it looks their system has protected them well from infiltration of Saudis extreme version of Islam.

Pakistans system was too lax and allowed such infiltration.
 
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