Ballistic missile Nasr: A bigger threat from Pakistan

[Capt.Popeye]

Goodness me, you have said something that is equivalent to blasphemy for an Indian member on PDF .

Czar is an Indian "under the radar-horizon weapon". This is the age of Stealth, is'nt it ?

 

[KS]

Goodness me, you have said something that is equivalent to blasphemy for an Indian member on PDF .

Many people have said that. It is the Pakistanis who insist that there exists some thing called Cold Start , that is aimed againtst Pakistan and how Pakistan has the means to defeat that.

 

[Mitro]

Thats why i am in Exile

I don't understand why some of my fellow indian deny existance of Cold Start Doctrine ,it was very good doctrine on paper but we were not able to implement it due to shortage of Cargo plane Now we have them. but too late now pakistan have this NASR tactical weapon system.

Goodness me, you have said something that is equivalent to blasphemy for an Indian member on PDF .

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Thats why i am in Exile

I don't understand why some of my fellow indian deny existance of Cold Start Doctrine ,it was very good doctrine on paper but we were not able to implement it due to shortage of Cargo plane Now we have them. but too late now pakistan have this NASR tactical weapon system.

This is tremendously confusing: first the "so-called doctrine" could not work because there were no Cargo Planes. Now the Cargo Planes are there but will not work because there TNWs? Some connection there?

 

[notorious_eagle]

This is tremendously confusing: first the "so-called doctrine" could not work because there were no Cargo Planes. Now the Cargo Planes are there but will not work because there TNWs? Some connection there?

Cargo planes cannot work against Pakistan, simple. They are more intended for your Northern Borders, not Western. What goods can they bring which is already not there at your cantonments. All your cantonments aimed against Pakistan are armed to the teeth, they don't need any additional supplies. Any sortie by these transporters near the border make them an easy target considering the fact that PAF is fielding BVRAAM. That being said, these cargo planes will do wonder for you at your Northern Borders as the defences constructed over there by the IA are still not upto the mark considering the fact that the Chinese can mobilize a strength of almost 40 divisions at a very rapid pace.

 

[Mitro]

Classified By: Ambassador Tim Roemer. Reason: 1.4 (b,d).

1. (S/NF) Summary: The Indian Army's "Cold Start Doctrine" is a mixture of myth and reality. It has never been and may never be put to use on a battlefield because of substantial and serious resource constraints, but it is a developed operational attack plan announced in 2004 and intended to be taken off the shelf and implemented within a 72-hour period during a crisis. Cold Start is not a plan for a comprehensive invasion and occupation of Pakistan. Instead, it calls for a rapid, time- and distance-limited penetration into Pakistani territory with the goal of quickly punishing Pakistan, possibly in response to a Pakistan-linked terrorist attack in India, without threatening the survival of the Pakistani state or provoking a nuclear response. It was announced by the BJP-led government in 2004,


WikiLeaks: US on Indian Army's Cold Start Doctrine | NDTV.com

“Cold Start Strategy”- The Indian Political Parameters That Need to Come into Play: Such an offensive strategy can only be successful if the Indian political leadership at the given time of operational execution of this strategy has:

* Political will to use offensive military power.

* Political will to use pre-emptive military strategies.

* Political sagacity to view strategic military objectives with clarity.

* Political determination to pursue military operations to their ultimate conclusion without succumbing to external pressures.

* Political determination to cross nuclear threshold if Pakistan seems so inclined.
INDIA

With Introduction Of Tactical Weapon System Like NASR the political will is dead and we know by crossing the LOC we will cross nuclear threshold of pakistan.

This is tremendously confusing: first the "so-called doctrine" could not work because there were no Cargo Planes. Now the Cargo Planes are there but will not work because there TNWs? Some connection there?

 

[Mitro]

We learn from our mistake of operation parakram and its not an easy task to move the soldier and equipment to western front from Bhopal where our strike corp are in [XXI Corps]

Cargo planes cannot work against Pakistan, simple. They are more intended for your Northern Borders, not Western. What goods can they bring which is already not there at your cantonments. All your cantonments aimed against Pakistan are armed to the teeth, they don't need any additional supplies. Any sortie by these transporters near the border make them an easy target considering the fact that PAF is fielding BVRAAM. That being said, these cargo planes will do wonder for you at your Northern Borders as the defences constructed over there by the IA are still not upto the mark considering the fact that the Chinese can mobilize a strength of almost 40 divisions at a very rapid pace.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Read my post#344 above:

However for the sake of good order; I'll re-iterate the important part of it.

No its not like that at all. India has reworked its Nuclear Doctrine to accommodate the idea of Nasr.

Rather Paksitan has to work again on its nuke policy, There is no such thing that is going to happen like one Nasr being fired off and that will cause all the action to stop. And that will lead to a stand-still. OTOH, the use of single nuke is enough to either cause or justify the cause of letting loose an arsenal.

The fact of the matter is: the decision to use the first nuke (by any side) is going to be the most unsurmountably difficult decision. When that is done; the reaction to it and the rest of it will be a simply snow-balling effect. Armageddon will then be in "auto-pilot mode" from that point on.

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian...-bigger-threat-pakistan-23.html#ixzz2Jxnk4enr

So the point is; everything hinges on the will to inititiate that " all important FIRST flash-point", not to respond to it.
The history of warfare all over the world post Hiroshima and Nagasaki simply attests to it; which country has used nukes in warfare since?

As for the rest of it; Cold Start was a conceptual exercise that was initiated by Gen Padmanabhan to resolve issues attached to rapid mobilization; those have been worked on since in many ways including what notorious_eagle has described above quite accurately. Apart from that, a great deal of (deliberate) misinformation about that exercise has been created. Though a lot of it by design has been made credible.

 

[Safriz]

On contrary to what indian members claim here...i came across a very credible article which says following important things.

1. The largest nuclear bomb in indian arsenal is 200Kt

2. The rest are 150Kt, 50kt and 17 kt.

3. India will use 17kt warhead as the mainstay of their nuclear deterrance onboard all their missiles.

4. India has a policy if 'gradual escalation' if there is a nuclear exchange....
First 17kt will be used and if the conflict continues then the size of warheads will be increased with appropriare missiles.

5. All indian nuclear weapons are Fusion boosted fission.
Plutonium Lithium based.

 

[MilSpec]

On contrary to what indian members claim here...i came across a very credible article which says following important things.

1. The largest nuclear bomb in indian arsenal is 200Kt

2. The rest are 150Kt, 50kt and 17 kt.

3. India will use 17kt warhead as the mainstay of their nuclear deterrance onboard all their missiles.

4. India has a policy if 'gradual escalation' if there is a nuclear exchange....
First 17kt will be used and if the conflict continues then the size of warheads will be increased with appropriare missiles.

5. All indian nuclear weapons are Fusion boosted fission.
Plutonium Lithium based.

Bring your strongest stick to the fight!!!

Apart from that if there is any nuke fired from any side,,, then "bye bye"

Please do post the source for your claims of knowing the India's nuke capabilities, which I doubt even our PM is made aware of.

As far as current scenario is concerned, India needs to deploy nearly twice the amount of arty regiments in the forward positions. 10 clicks from line of actual positions to be able to target all pakistani posts. That would ensure significant pressure on pakistani side.

 

[Safriz]

Bring your strongest stick to the fight!!!

Apart from that if there is any nuke fired from any side,,, then "bye bye"

Please do post the source for your claims of knowing the India's nuke capabilities, which I doubt even our PM is made aware of.

As far as current scenario is concerned, India needs to deploy nearly twice the amount of arty regiments in the forward positions. 10 clicks from line of actual positions to be able to target all pakistani posts. That would ensure significant pressure on pakistani side.

Thats why i say...there is always a difference between the thinking of 'Armchair generals' and 'real generals'.
The previous will want to fight an armagedon everytime....and the later will have a different..more realistic approach.

Look up how plutonium is made and then claim india has an indefinate number of warheads and of multi megaton strength.

 

[Black Widow]

What about it? You sending a strike package from there

.

Sorry not Kazak, rather Tajikistan... Hope u have heard about Farkhor Airbase... You said your eastern border is heavily guarded (by radars).. What bout wesatern borders?

 

[notorious_eagle]

Sorry not Kazak, rather Tajikistan... Hope u have heard about Farkhor Airbase... You said your eastern border is heavily guarded (by radars).. What bout wesatern borders?

So your telling me; the Tajiks love you soo much that they are willing to enter into a war against Pakistan, just on the behest of India. After all, any use of Tajik territory to cause harm to Pakistan would be considered an act of war against Pakistan according to the canons of international law. Interesting, please expand on the logistical supply that IAF has imposed to keep that base well stocked and supplied?

 

[Contrarian]

Cargo planes cannot work against Pakistan, simple. They are more intended for your Northern Borders, not Western. What goods can they bring which is already not there at your cantonments. All your cantonments aimed against Pakistan are armed to the teeth, they don't need any additional supplies. Any sortie by these transporters near the border make them an easy target considering the fact that PAF is fielding BVRAAM. That being said, these cargo planes will do wonder for you at your Northern Borders as the defences constructed over there by the IA are still not upto the mark considering the fact that the Chinese can mobilize a strength of almost 40 divisions at a very rapid pace.

They are essential for the Northern borders. However they are also intended for the Western border. Cold Start has necessitated a lot of new weaponry that India has been purchasing over the last few years.

Cold Start cannot be implemented without rapid mobilization. As such it is expected that the C-17's (there are expected to be 16 in number) would airlift the essential offensive elements to forward airbases even while the bulk of the elements from the cantt's are moving towards the border using road or rail.

16 C-17's working over a couple of days would haul a massive tonnage.

PAF cannot start shooting even before the war is declared. And they are meant to put elements in place right before the war is declared.

 

[Contrarian]

So your telling me; the Tajiks love you soo much that they are willing to enter into a war against Pakistan, just on the behest of India. After all, any use of Tajik territory to cause harm to Pakistan would be considered an act of war against Pakistan according to the canons of international law. Interesting, please expand on the logistical supply that IAF has imposed to keep that base well stocked and supplied?

Tajikistan hosts India's first base outside. It is not meant to be used in times of war. It is meant solely for conducting spec ops inside Pakistan and Afghanistan from areas which are least monitored by the respective militaries of the region.

Any spec op, conducted against Pakistan will not lead to Pakistan declaring war on Tajikistan under any and all circumstances. At best Pakistan Army will strengthen their border. This is also effective for India as it dilutes PA to spread its resources on static duty.

The third option is entering Pakistan using Afghanistan.

IAF has only and deliberately stationed only Russian origin equipment in Tajikistan. As such the onus of logistic lines is via Russia who not only hold the market, is also the single most dominant country there. As a matter of fact our base is a joint base with Russia.

Any equipment needed can be repaired and logistics procured from Russia. Even to the extent of using Russian assets in times of need, which can be later bought or sent from India to Russia. There are also plans to base MiG 29's there as well to provide hard military protection - whether Indian or Russian remains to be seen as of now.