Balance Of Air Power In South Asia

[Windjammer]

Windjammer

60% serviceability is the average across all air forces globally during peace time. No air force has 100% serviceability anywhere not even USA ............... Do you know ha;lf the PAF fleet is grounded at any time including the 30 yewar old falcons and the 50 year old mirages.

Tejas may fail BUT at least india has options LIKE buyimg the entire F16/70 production programme for $billions

Yet PAF could not buy 8 F16/52 ................WHY they could not find the funds

SO ................look what happened ..................rusty old F16 block A/B from the mighty jordianian air force

Do you know even our JF-17 is well over 90% operational, no air force suffers almost 50% serviceability rate on it's front line jet...../and before chest thumping on something that hasn't even materialised yet, just remember, your air force is still having to fly some 50 year old air frames..... and those rusty F-16 have enough capability to counter most of your front line types.
And unlike the MKI, which has so far been grounded three times within IAF, no PAF aircraft ever suffered such mishaps.

 

[danger007]

If you have nothi positive to contribute there is no need to post dear. I mean, you do not get paid by the post now do you?

Am amazed with selective argument... I don't pay much attention like others, but whenever i get free time. hmm so the other guy talking mki being locked by jft many times without being detected... but no source, we supposed write a email to seek info: about credible wind jammer told us our jets being locked by jft.. do he add anything, apart posting repeated pics and same blindshots without proper source..

 

[Windjammer]

PAF fleet of JF-17 (a souped up MiG-21/3rd gen combat aircraft), Mirage III, Mirage-5 and J-7 (MiG-21) is not scaring anyone

Yea, just Eight F-16 were making Indians run to the fields.

 

[wiseone2]

Do you know even our JF-17 is well over 90% operational, no air force suffers almost 50% serviceability rate on it's front line jet...../and before chest thumping on something that hasn't even materialised yet, just remember, your air force is still having to fly some 50 year old air frames..... and those rusty F-16 have enough capability to counter most of your front line types.
And unlike the MKI, which has so far been grounded three times within IAF, no PAF aircraft ever suffered such mishaps.

what makes you think there is accountability in the PAF ?

Yea, just Eight F-16 were making Indians run to the fields.

fighting a full fledged war with 8 F-16s is a little problematic

 

[cerberus]

Just like Tejas, you are running well behind time.

http://www.defensenews.com/story/de...agency-punches-holes-russian-sukhoi/77688164/

Still DATA is of 2010 Figures Should I Post It here for you Go Read report First Before copy Pasting articles Here
As Per CAG the Operational readiness of Sukhoi-30MKI was 59% as of 2010 Which Quoted here by My Pakistani friends But Its Almost 6 Years Now HAL Nasik Produce 12-14 MKI Per year So IAF almost added 4 Squadrons Of brand New MKI as 2016

So the Present readiness of MKI is BTW 65-70% As Per Experts

CAG report Below (Which quoted by Members)

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

PAF is paying the price for

1. pakistans failure to keep,pace with Econmical growth versis india , Today the GDP ratio 1 to 8
2. Pakistan Govt failure to retain USA has its single most important ally in South Asia. USA is now at best neutral or worse titlting towards india.
3.Pakistans failure to maintain the trust and faith of major international players be it the arabs or the EUROPEANS.


The price is being paid by the military in partuclar the air force and navy who simply cant TURN 1 into 8 ( the gdp ratio gap)

This is why today PAF is outnumbered 3-1 in bvr fighters overall ,,,,,,and has a current scenario where 78 falcons will have to face off 220+ su30mki AND 70 thunders over 150 mirage2000/mig29 combined........

THIS GAP or ratio will keep getting wider

It will be very very interesting to see PAF attempt to counter Rafale even a token order of 36 planes and indeed their attempt to overcome 5 regiments of S400

This is not boasting or rubbing egg in faces ITS SIMPLE reality.

Complete false logic and scattered conjecture. Pakistan is FAR more advanced, powerful and developed now than it has ever been in it's entire history. That is PARTLY due to CPEC AND more to do with other less talked about projects and reforms that have been going on in Pakistan since 2012.

Pakistan's relationship with America was always a hindrance and it's breakdown was always enivateable. It served it's purpose during the Soviet era. We got F-16s and they got a regional ally against the Soviets.

Pakistan's relationship with China and Turkey however has been MUCH more fruitful and beneficial.

At the moment, the indian airforce does APPEAR to have an advantage over the PAF. But this hides many realities. Pakistan is not going to make major purchases of any fighter jets UNTIL JUST AFTER THE full on-line induction of Chinese J-20s and J-31s. Once inducted into the PAF, there will be dramatic shift in the balance of airforce power. So the majority of PAF funds will be focused on this. Also Pakistan has many advanced SAM systems to deny indian airforce superiority over Pakistani airspace. That is an easy, cost effective method to nullify the indian airforce vis-a-vis the PAF.

Your comparison of the indian economy with Pakistan's is as ridiculous as trying to compare a tiger to a rhino. india is at least 7× bigger than Pakistan. Is a different race, culture and heritage to Pakistan. Has different geopolitical and strategic constraints. Has more access to Western and Russian technologies and economic resources. Has a different economic, social set up and aims to Pakistan. Comparing the Pakistan economy to the Indian one is like comparing the Jordanian, Lebanese and Tunisian economy to India's. Ridiculous as there is nothing in common to compare.

 

[Centurion2016]

PAKISTAN FOREVER

Economy and military are completely interlinked

There is a simple reason why the worlds largest GDP nations have the best equipped militarys,

The two go hand in hand.

COMPARING a 8-1 GDP is highlighting the complete imbalance and impossible task PAF and military face not today BUT for the rest of your lives.

Year in year out the CONVENTIONAL balance is just getting bigger and bigger.

PAKISTANIS have resorted to tactical nuclear weapons with open public media threads that if a war starts they will use tactical nukes.

THIS IS OPEN ADMISSION they expect to get overrun in any war

 

[wiseone2]

Pakistan's relationship with America was always a hindrance and it's breakdown was always enivateable. It served it's purpose during the Soviet era. We got F-16s and they got a regional ally against the Soviets.

Pakistan's relationship with China and Turkey however has been MUCH more fruitful and beneficial.

all this whining about Uncle Sam sounds like sour grapes
without american combat aircraft PAF would have been whipped in 1965
Without f-16s the paf would be outclassed by the IAF

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

all this whining about Uncle Sam sounds like sour grapes
without american combat aircraft PAF would have been whipped in 1965
Without f-16s the paf would be outclassed by the IAF

It served it's purpose in the past. The F-16s won't last forever. Need more advanced fighter jets. They will come via China and possible joint ventures with Turkey.

PAKISTAN FOREVER

Economy and military are completely interlinked

There is a simple reason why the worlds largest GDP nations have the best equipped militarys,

The two go hand in hand.

COMPARING a 8-1 GDP is highlighting the complete imbalance and impossible task PAF and military face not today BUT for the rest of your lives.

Year in year out the CONVENTIONAL balance is just getting bigger and bigger.

PAKISTANIS have resorted to tactical nuclear weapons with open public media threads that if a war starts they will use tactical nukes.

THIS IS OPEN ADMISSION they expect to get overrun in any war

india will always have a high GDP as your population is at least 1.3 billion and is at least 7× bigger than that of Pakistan's. You have 1/6 th of humanity in your country. What good is your alleged conventional weapons superiority and massive economy when your military was unable to launch a full scale military assault against Pakistan after mumbai 2008 and Uri last month? That too when Pakistan is at least 7× smaller than india and doesn't have access to the world's most advanced weapons systems like india does. It means that what you have just stated is a paper tiger and of no real substance. Just bluster and dribble on the Internet. Or perhaps our nukes have neutralised india's military capabilities:

http://isis-online.org/isis-reports...g-nuclear-weapons-time-for-pakistan-to-rever/

 

[blain2]

Comparing parity of 270 Su-30MKIs with 18 F-16 Block 52 (and 40 odd MLUs) is delusional, and MKI boasts much better Radar and datalink than Block 52.

Rafale will be made in collaboration with Reliance Defence, F-16s will be made with LM along with another Indian conglomerate.

If this was simply a numbers game then Pakistan would disband her air force and walk away. The reality of air operations is very different. There are the intangibles and the tangibles. You cannot just look at one aspect and think it to be the end all, be all. Those who are professionals in this field, as the AVM is, know what PAF can do with the existing inventory. He hasn't mentioned even a quarter of the initiatives and capabilities at play within the PAF that we are very sure provide Pakistan with a very potent deterrence despite the other side fielding 270 MKIs and other platforms.

This is no longer about a few aircraft. This is about optimizing the force multipliers in a way that provides unprecedented coverage of Pakistan through existing capabilities. Lots of things are unsaid, but the key point is that at least currently, PAF is not lagging behind in any specific area which would cause undue worry to the AHQ.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

If this was simply a numbers game then Pakistan would disband her air force and walk away. The reality of air operations is very different. There are the intangibles and the tangibles. You cannot just look at one aspect and think it to be the end all, be all. Those who are professionals in this field, as the AVM is, know what PAF can do with the existing inventory. He hasn't mentioned even a quarter of the initiatives and capabilities at play within the PAF that we are very sure provide Pakistan with a very potent deterrence despite the other side fielding 270 MKIs and other platforms.

This is no longer about a few aircraft. This is about optimizing the force multipliers in a way that provides unprecedented coverage of Pakistan through existing capabilities. Lots of things are unsaid, but the key point is that at least currently, PAF is not lagging behind in any specific area which would cause undue worry to the AHQ.

Folks tend to underestimate how much military power is actually necessary to subdue a foe. Even counterinsurgency operations, which are one-sided fights between states and non-state actors, require a lot and the risk of loss is very high. Just see the torment the Saudis are going through in Yemen *despite* leveling a battery of advanced assets and weight in that country. So this idea that a proper military can fully subdue another proper military is grossly erroneous.

 

[CriticalThought]

Folks tend to underestimate how much military power is actually necessary to subdue a foe. Even counterinsurgency operations, which are one-sided fights between states and non-state actors, require a lot and the risk of loss is very high. Just see the torment the Saudis are going through in Yemen *despite* leveling a battery of advanced assets and weight in that country. So this idea that a proper military can fully subdue another proper military is grossly erroneous.

Sir! You have been very quiet on this thread:

https://defence.pk/threads/work-on-jf-17-block-3-commences.457641/

Looking forward to your valuable opinion.

 

[Arsalan]

Am amazed with selective argument... I don't pay much attention like others, but whenever i get free time. hmm so the other guy talking mki being locked by jft many times without being detected... but no source, we supposed write a email to seek info: about credible wind jammer told us our jets being locked by jft.. do he add anything, apart posting repeated pics and same blindshots without proper source..

REPORT THAT!!
If you have any objects report it or ASK for proof and if not provided then engage in a civil debate. This is not a twitter page where one can tweet all he/she wants. This is a discussion forum and let us ALL stick to that. In fact, do point me to that post you are mentioning.

If this was simply a numbers game then Pakistan would disband her air force and walk away. The reality of air operations is very different. There are the intangibles and the tangibles. You cannot just look at one aspect and think it to be the end all, be all. Those who are professionals in this field, as the AVM is, know what PAF can do with the existing inventory. He hasn't mentioned even a quarter of the initiatives and capabilities at play within the PAF that we are very sure provide Pakistan with a very potent deterrence despite the other side fielding 270 MKIs and other platforms.

This is no longer about a few aircraft. This is about optimizing the force multipliers in a way that provides unprecedented coverage of Pakistan through existing capabilities. Lots of things are unsaid, but the key point is that at least currently, PAF is not lagging behind in any specific area which would cause undue worry to the AHQ.

Never mind sir, boasting and chest thumping have become a habit now. It is the false sense of grandeur that led to immense embarrassment over the past few months, ONLY if someone could feel it!!
There are many sensible and sane members from India on the forum who know pretty well what have happened and are always a joy to talk with. They will point out the issues with us and we wont be able to disagree with them and they are open to admitting there own follies. This is how a debate should be. Better you look and talk to them rather than wasting your time with people who are delusional to the limit.

 

[assassin123]

Do you know even our JF-17 is well over 90% operational, no air force suffers almost 50% serviceability rate on it's front line jet...../and before chest thumping on something that hasn't even materialised yet, just remember, your air force is still having to fly some 50 year old air frames..... and those rusty F-16 have enough capability to counter most of your front line types.
And unlike the MKI, which has so far been grounded three times within IAF, no PAF aircraft ever suffered such mishaps.

Have you got any proof to back your claim that the jf17 has got 90% servicibility rate??
Iaf su 30 MKI has got 70% servicibility rate as per the recent CAG audit done by the government
Also do you expect your ,30 year old f 16s except the new ones have 80% servicibility rate also I'm pretty sure that your 5 decade old mirages will a servicibility rate below 40% at best
If you have some knowledge in airline industry you will understand what I mean
A 20 year old 737 will cost you 2 times more money to operate than a brand new one due to the increase in maintenance cost and it will spent more time in hangar

 

[Rupeshkumar]

PAKISTAN FOREVER


PAKISTANIS have resorted to tactical nuclear weapons with open public media threads that if a war starts they will use tactical nukes.

THIS IS OPEN ADMISSION they expect to get overrun in any war

Sound Logic !! But very few people on this forum go by Logic, they are rather driven by whims !!!!