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Baitullah Mehsud bites the dust, confirmed! :)

Keyword "was". And even that was True,( Which it isn't) why would they support militants to attack Pakistan? Pakistan was their ally at the time, and they needed us to train "mujahideen" to attack the Soviets in Russia.

That's like if the USA trained French Guerilla fighters to attack the British during D-Day :cheesy:

You got it all wrong.
US know that Pakistan government had no control over fata region.
US know on matter how hard they push GOP it will take a lot of time for Pakistan army to secure border. Time US do n t had.
So they created TTP to keep them busy in side Pakistan. When the people of fata got busy inside Pakistan so there was less border crossing. Many of the Pakistani Taliban during afghan Russia war stay inside Pakistan killing innocent Pakistanis.

US know that only thing beat Russia is Pakistani infiltrating in Afghanistan. so US make TTP so US can be in Afghanistan and stop worrying about Taliban’s from Pakistan crossing to afghanistan and fighting US troops .
 
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i was skipping your futile argument initially but then i thought your effort deserve some acknowledgment, so i found these few lines worthy enough to be rantisized by myself, here you go...

I don't make light of terror in Pakistan. Are you being intentionally crude about 3,000 citizens and residents of America dying in the space of two hours?

This was not intended, but then let’s not get emotional.


Well, at least it's clear that you're a supporter of the afghan insurgency and a serving officer in your army. The sentiment is still clearly there as I highly doubt your views are isolated.

In fact, I'd suspect that those notions pre-dominate your officer corps still and are still part of your operational calculus.


If this is the conclusion that your mental appreciation has lead you to, then I feel terribly sorry for you, your military and your countrymen, as fore-sighters and appreciators like you are the sole reasons that the US is eating dust everywhere!

Keep up the guud work of profiling us.

As do you but it's not the correct answer. First, it's not practical. As a military man you know that any obstacle must be covered by direct, all-weather observation 24/7 and, at a minimum, pre-planned artillery fires if not direct fires. That's a lot of border because no obstacle is insurmountable.

Mine the length without such and you'll find your roads mined by the largesse left for the picking.

Secondly, it would be culturally destructive to the pashtu tribes as well as being a visible symbol of the nature of afghan-Pakistan relations.

I don't like it and find it not feasible myself.


Now you are talking Pashtu! :cheers:


Yes I have-


Crystalline and EXACTLY what I expected to read.


Oh boy!
You don’t even know what we are doing on this forum! :azn:

RIP!

----

P.S. BTW, how exactly your OSINT is progressing here on PDF, mind to share your EEIs some day via PMs?? :)
 
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let's be fair here. Pakistan doesn't give a whit about the afghan people and only care about the pashtu so far as they can deflect pashtu nationalist aspirations onto hazara, tajik, uzbek, and turkic lands in Afghanistan and AWAY from the Punjabi heartland. If doing so allows Pakistan to diminish Indian influence as tajik and Uzbek influence is also diminished-

all the better, thus avoiding ANY remote chance that Pakistan shall find the Indian army encamped on your western borders.

Not that such would ever happen. Just a nice rationale to keep Afghanistan as your personal playbox


Pakistani readers should take note of the above - US security personnel at almost all levels think exactly this -- yes, it's a example of group think --- the important thing however; is to not get upset by this - turn the obstacle into opportunity.

It does not matter how much you explain that most Pashtun live in Pakistan, that Pakistan's top leadership, civilian and military is heavily represented by pashtun, that Hazara have University in Pakistan but none in afghanistan, that Uzbeki have special place in Pakistani culture through Cuisine they introduced (Uzbeki Naan , Qaabauli etc) - none of these things will counter the "comfort" of their "briefings".

Don't get upset that some cannot get this, use it, turn it into a positive.
 
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Xeric Sir & All Other Pakistani Members, don't waste ur precious time arguing with S-2 or any american member here, this time can be utilized on some useful thing. These members are americans, and u know well american nation is arrogant, heartless human being who damn care about the life of anyone else other then american. I had put in front of S-2 out of many, the pic of a headless few months old baby killed with american supplied weapons by israeli maniacs in Lebanon, S-2 had no regrets about it.
American nation no matter how much education they get, how many degrees they get from any prestigious university will stay heartless b*******.

Its a simple equation, americans attacked taliban who were protecting & supporting but not funding the so called perpetrators of 9/11, who killed approx 2700+ innocent american people.

To equal the equation, americans are hated and liked to be killed & destroyed for protecting, supporting, equipping & funding the inhuman state of israel, who are & have killed way in excess (of the lives taken on 9/11) innocent human beings not sparing few month old babies, children & unarmed mothers and fathers.

To have not left behind their israeli masters, the americans joined in and so far have killed hundreds of times over innocent people which USA lost on 9/11.

American nation is arrogant, they don't see their mistakes and inhumanity.

So don't waste ur time on them. as Qur'an says, sometimes the hearts of unbelievers are locked, no matter what u do or say their hearts will not open.

They are among that nation, no matter wht u tell them, no matter how many headless bodies of babies are shown to them they will stay arrogant and show pride to being a civilized nation, which in reality they aren't.
 
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taimikhan


Please do not arabize, palestineize this conversation and please do not bring in texts held as sacred - it does not help promote the conversation other than to offer aid and comfort to talib who are enemies of Pakistan and Pakistanis.

If S2 is persuaded by the briefings offered by a particular side in the Afghan civil war, so be it, there is no need to make it personal and certainly no need to paint the entire American nation as uncaring or arrogant -which it certainly is not.


Enemy = Talib and Al-Qaida - lets keep our focus.
 
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I THOUHT IT WAS THE IDEA OF C-I-A TO CREAT TALIBAN TO DESTROY THE SOVIETS IN AFGHANISTAN . ISI PLAYED THE MIDDLE ROLE OF PROVIDING THEM THE SANCTUARY NEEDED TO TAKE ON THE SOVIETS. EVERY THING WAS AMERICAN . THE STINGER MISSILES , THE ARMS FUNDING , SMALL ARMS , DRY RATIONS , MEDICINES EVERY THING .
LATER ON WHEN THE SOVIETS WITHDREW THE US TOOK THE SHORTEST ROUTE OUT OF THIS WHOLE GAME LEAVING BEHIND I-S-I AND 50-60000 ARMED MEN TRAINED TO FIGHT GURILLA WAR PLUS A HUGE NUMBERS OF AFGHAN REFUGEES .SOME PEOPLE IN OUR ESTABLISHMENT GOT CONVINCED BY THE ROLE WHICH TALIBAN PLAYED AGAINST THE SOVIETS , SO THEY CAME UP WITH AN IDEA (HOW ABOUTH USING THE SAME GUYS AGIANST INDIA AS KASHMISRI MUJAHIDEENS AND FREEDOM FIGHTERS) AND THEN THE I-S-I (COURTESY OF THE FUNDING BY ARABIAN GULF) USED THESE TALIBANIC ASSETS ABONDONED BY U-S AGAINST INDIA . THE REST IS NOW HAPPENING .

IT SADDENS ME WHEN PEOPLE SHAMELESSLY ONLY BLAME I-S-I FOR ALL THE TALIBANIC MESS .:frown:
 
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taimikhan


Please do not arabize, palestineize this conversation and please do not bring in texts held as sacred - it does not help promote the conversation other than to offer aid and comfort to talib who are enemies of Pakistan and Pakistanis.

If S2 is persuaded by the briefings offered by a particular side in the Afghan civil war, so be it, there is no need to make it personal and certainly no need to paint the entire American nation as uncaring or arrogant -which it certainly is not.
Enemy = Talib and Al-Qaida - lets keep our focus.

I am not converting this talk into another discussion, kindly read the post to see what i was referring, i have no interest in persuading or arguing with S-2, as for my experience & by reading his posts, he can't be persuaded or a change of mind can be done nor any other american member here.

My post was just for Pakistani Members, it was not for any international discussion nor to be discussed.

And yes i agree with u our enemy is taliban & AQ. No doubt in that.
 
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HOPEFULLY MORE GOOD NEWS

SOUTH WAZIRISTAN: An armed clash is reported to have occurred between two groups of Tehreek-e-Taliban Pakistan (TTP) during its meeting in Sourth Waziristan, sources said.

An important Taliban commander is reported killed in the above clash.

TTP’s Shura meeting was underway to appoint successor of Baitullah Mehsud after his reported killing in S Waziristan when the clash erupted between two groups of Hakimullah Mehsud and Wali-ur-Rehman, sources said.

Reports said an important commander of TTP was killed in the incident while the state TV has reported that TTP commander Hakimullah Mehsud was killed in the clash.

Armed clash at TTP meeting in S Waziristan
 
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Can one of you more astute locals here begin to educate some of these loons about the difference between the afghan mujahideen of the Soviet-Afghan war and today's taliban and THEIR origins.

Seems a lot of confusion suffered here by some who don't know the difference and routinely conflate one upon the other. Maddening.
 
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Editorial: Another chapter of terrorism closed

Baitullah Mehsud, the fearsome top leader of the self-styled Tehreek-e Taliban Pakistan, is reportedly dead, killed in last Tuesday’s Predator strike. Earlier reports had suggested that the attack had claimed his wife. There is need for further confirmation but if the report is correct then the hit is a big positive for the ongoing counterinsurgency and terrorism operations. Consider.

Mehsud had emerged as the biggest menace for Pakistan attacking soft and hard targets in the tribal areas as well as across Pakistan. He had become the main plank between Al Qaeda and the several sectarian and terrorist groups within Pakistan drawing cadres from all of them and forging them into a well-knit terrorist force. He considered himself safe in the craggy mountain redoubts of South Waziristan and so far all attempts to get to him through ground extraction operations had failed. In the final analysis, he had become the centre of gravity which needed to be hit because he managed from that central position to expand the zone of irregular war, a combination of insurgency and terrorism, and forced the security forces to fight several small wars on the periphery.

His death therefore sends a clear signal to the Taliban, and whoever his successor might be, that the heat and din of war can reach their headquarters. Also, that no matter how rough and difficult the terrain, superior technology will be used to blunt the terrorists’ advantage. Wherever it is difficult to execute ground operations, air power can be used to take out even mobile targets.

The other setback would be the need for the Taliban to find someone to replace Mehsud. That they will be able to do but it will take time and it will be some time before that person will be able to get a handle on things. Going by reports of how Mehsud dealt with his second-string leaders, we know that he never allowed any of his lieutenants to grow too big. Qari Hussain, who trained and prepared suicide bombers for the TTP, had to mend fences with Mehsud when the Qari overstepped his brief and attacked the house of Khyber Agency’s political agent in Tank. Mehsud knew that in the game that he was playing, he could not afford to let anyone grow beyond a certain point. But now that he is reported dead, this could prove a problem for his successor. In fact, this could even lead to a battle for succession and a splintering of TTP. If the TTP falls apart into various factions, its ability to mount coordinated attacks could suffer. That would make it easier for the security forces to pre-empt future insurgent and terrorist attacks.

Having said this, however, we should not consider this as the beginning of the end of this menace. There is every possibility that the Taliban and their sleeper cells will mount a string of attacks across Pakistan to avenge Mehsud’s killing. So, before it begins to get better, it could get worse. The government should be alive to this fact. Secondly, Mehsud became big in the way that he did because Al Qaeda needed to prop up someone to act as go-between itself and the several extremist groups. With Mehsud gone, Al Qaeda will be looking for the right person to replace him and is very likely to throw its weight and resources behind that person. Similarly, given that Mehsud did get taken out by a drone despite much precaution, the Taliban are likely to become more cautious in avoiding a similar fate for their next leader.


Nonetheless, the operation has notched a big success and it must be looked at as such. It also disproves the thesis in Pakistan that Mehsud was operating at the behest of a US-India combine because those countries want to dismember Pakistan. If anything, it now points to greater intelligence and military cooperation between Pakistan and the US which is the only way the two sides can fight this war. Also, Pakistan had long insisted that it cannot take care of groups that are sustaining the insurgency in Afghanistan because it has to deal with the menace of Mehsud. Islamabad will now have to revisit that argument. With elections coming up in Afghanistan, the US would want Pakistan to help it maintain security in Afghanistan by ensuring, as far as Pakistan can, that groups operating from the Pakistani soil are neutralised
 
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Hi,

A lots of pakistanis have misconceptions about taliban and their relations with u s of a. The americans had no relationship with any kind of taliban. Even though the americans supported the mujahideen in the 80---till the mujahideen decided to go their own way in 1990-91 after the invasion of kuwait by iraq.

As the mujahideen decided to support Saddam and iraqi invasion much to the dismay of the u s---the support for the afghan casue weaned away in the american senate and congress. As the afghanis decided to go their own way---it gave the americans the oppurtunity to walk away as well.

Even though we make a statement that america left the afghans on their own---it was the afghans who made their own choice. Even if they had stayed neutral and posted no comment about iraqi invasion---maybe the u s could haqve considered further aid. But once the decision was made---the afghanis have themseleves to blame.

Even in their worst case scenario---if some were trained by the americans---11--12 years is a long long period---people can learn to make choices good or bad---world has gone in a different direction---the afghans chose what was best for them---if it didnot work out well---they are themselves to blame--Allah gave them a brain, two legs, a torso, two legs, hands and feet a face and a brain---just like any other normal human being--accept the only thing that they had progressively---was hatred of other mankind---no respect for women and children or someone with different belief.
 
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taimikhan


Please do not arabize, palestineize this conversation and please do not bring in texts held as sacred - it does not help promote the conversation other than to offer aid and comfort to talib who are enemies of Pakistan and Pakistanis.

If S2 is persuaded by the briefings offered by a particular side in the Afghan civil war, so be it, there is no need to make it personal and certainly no need to paint the entire American nation as uncaring or arrogant -which it certainly is not.


Enemy = Talib and Al-Qaida - lets keep our focus.


Please clarify talib fighting for liberation of Afghanistan from US occupation how they are our enemy ? mullah omer never targeted any Pakistani or asset ? he also opposed BM terrorist actions?
 
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You are the ultimate arbiter of who crosses your borders- ALL of your borders, to include your western borders.

Even the US, one of the richest and the most technologically advanced nation on Earth, cannot control its Mexican border 100%.

And you expect Pakistan, with an economy on life support and a massive Indian buildup on our eastern border, to seal a 1000 mile mountainous border?
 
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"Even the US, one of the richest and the most technologically advanced nation on Earth, cannot control its Mexican border 100%."

100%? Try more like 30%. Worse, there are clear avenues where the bulk of Mexicans cross into the states and, even then, we can't control it.

OTOH, these Mexicans don't seem to generally return to Mexico to fight an insurgency with base camps and sanctuary established with our Tex-Mex, etc. Most take back dollars.

Finally, it's our choice to allow such. Even in this down economy I see temporary workers everywhere.

There is a difference here. The P.A. had two months to shift forces to face a threat on it's western borders in late 2001- from 11 Sept until mid-November. They chose not to do so. These men, afterall, were your government's allies...

...and pashtu. Between codes of Paktunwali and your geo-strategic pre-dispositions, the afghan taliban along with their Haqqani/Hekmatyar/A.Q. associates settled in and proceeded to infect your locals of the Islamic Emirate of Waziristan.

Why wouldn't they have such an effect? Clearly, the government of Pakistan was pre-disposed to assist them. If not, there'd been a far more severe police and military presence through this area.

No, Developereo, in the end we are responsible for the security of our borders and those we permit inside our countries. Nobody else. It is for that reason that nations spend inordinate proportions of precious budget to man and equip armies.

Equally, we are responsible for the actions that our guests take against our foreign neighbors. That is entailed in the rights and responsibilities of sovereignty. Our drone attacks are embedded in this precept by virtue of America withholding the perogative to self-defense when threatened with attack by others-even those in foreign lands of an ostensible ally.
 
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