Azad Hind Fauj .Hitler's indian soldiers

[Indus Pakistan]

The fact of the matter is, just as there are nuances when it comes to those who signed up to fight within the British military from our part of the world, there are also nuances when it comes to those who fought with the assistance of the Axis from our part of the world.

The nuances are there and jarring reality is there. If men from coterminous Pakistan had not signed up in massive numbers to fight for the British Raj we can almost be 100% sure there would have be NO Pakistan today. That is a FACT. Every action has a consequence. This was the consequence.

 

[masterchief_mirza]

I do find it very interesting to come across many people describe people who worked for the Indian National Army or Indische Legion as misled canon fodder just because they utilised Axis support to free the region from the clutches of the British, but do not use such terminology for those who actually fought for the very people colonising us. The fact of the matter is, just as there are nuances when it comes to those who signed up to fight within the British military from our part of the world, there are also nuances when it comes to those who fought with the assistance of the Axis from our part of the world.

When you wish to fight for your freedom and face an overwhelming opponent, it is understandable to see people seek less than morally exemplary entities for assistance, especially if they have much power. People like Chandra Bose were doing what they considered most practical for their particular cases, to simply etch them away as evil Axis collaborators who just committed war crimes is absurd. This is made readily apparent when one considers that some of these people such as Major Malik Munawar Khan literally fought tooth and nail for the Pakistani nation after the Indian National Army was disbanded, or that Dr Muhammad Iqbal Shedai became a staunch supporter of Pakistan later on in his life.

Furthermore, let's not forget that whilst we can discuss what the Axis may have done within what was British India, the British actually did commit such heinous acts. To equate a hypothetical with an actuality is absurd (and no, I'm not absolving the Axis of their improper ideals/actions either, lest someone accuse me of doing such).

@Desert Fox @Indus Pakistan @Talwar e Pakistan

Your thoughts?

Great points.

Interesting drama on Amazon Prime called Man in the High Castle - worth watching if ww2 buffs want to see a version of history where the axis won.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

This was the consequence.

14 August 1947.

So the British have left. The crescent and star has been raised over the Indus plains and mountains. What stops 100s of millions of Hindus led by arrogant Nehru from marching and tearing that crescent and star?

I tell you what.

• Frontier Regiment
• Punjab Regiment
• Baloch Regiment
• Corp of Guides Cavalry
• 15th Lancers
• Chitral Scouts
• Khyber Rifles
• etc
• etc

This is what stopped the safrron hordes from marching west and tearing that crescent and star. Each of these reegiments had bee given to Pakistan because the men, yes the MEN were from what became Pakistan. Had these guys not signed up for the Raj there would have been nothing to hold the Gangas back.

And these regiments formed the Pakistan Army. The same army you salute as nations guardian today. Keep this in mind. What did I say of "consequences intended or otherse"?

Baloch Regiment

Military unit, Note the British era [pre 19470 cap badge and the [post 1947] Pak Army cap badge.

The Baloch Regiment is an infantry regiment of the Pakistan Army. The modern regiment was formed in May 1956 by the merger of 8th Punjab and Bahawalpur Regiments with the Baluch Regiment. Since then, further raisings have brought the strength of the Regiment to 57 active battalions. Wikipedia
Headquarters: Abbottabad
Headquarters location: Abbottabad, Pakistan
Founded: 1798
Color: Kai Kai
Type of business: Line Infantry

 

[waz]

The nuances are there and jarring reality is there. If men from coterminous Pakistan had not signed up in massive numbers to fight for the British Raj we can almost be 100% sure there would have be NO Pakistan today. That is a FACT. Every action has a consequence. This was the consequence.

The ex members of the INI contributed to Pakistan's armed forces, but there is no comparison to the overwhelming majority of men who came from the British Indian Army. However gems like Major General Mohammed Zaman Kiani, officer Habib ur Rahman etc will always be part of our history. But the struggle under the INI was futile, particularly as many knew of the soon to be Pakistanis knew a united India under their likes had no space for us, so didn't join. They also swore an oath, and we know how our elders held their word.
It's also 100% fact that had we not had the million men which fought in the Second World War as part of the BIA Pakistan would have been steamrolled into history before it had even been born.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

It's also 100% fact that had we not had the million men which fought in the Second World War as part of the BIA Pakistan would have been steamrolled into history before it had even been born.

Fact.

Note: Even those who fought and were part of Axis forces were because they had signed up with BIA and subsequently changed sides. Meaning even the Axis recruited from the BIA manpower. Assuming had all our forefathers not signed up for the Raj trust me in 1947 all wqe would have had is shaved dickks to stem the Ganga horde. As Kashmiri you will be aware even the Kashmir irregulars mostly were ex WW2 servicemen who played critical role in freedom of what became Azad Kashmir.

 

[waz]

Fact.

Note: Even those who fought and were part of Axis forces were because they had signed up with BIA and subsequently changed sides. Meaning even the Axis recruited from the BIA manpower. Assuming had all our forefathers not signed up for the Raj trust me in 1947 all wqe would have had is shaved dickks to stem the Ganga horde. As Kashmiri you will be aware even the Kashmir irregulars mostly were ex WW2 servicemen who played critical role in freedom of what became Azad Kashmir.

Grandfather and 4 grand-uncles were among the founder members of the AKRF, all fought in the Second World War, I have their medals, guns and uniforms, some here, some in Pakistan Azad Kashmir.
I tell you what else will get really under the noses of very few of our brothers who seem to think signing up for the colonial power was a mistake i.e. that some of the fighting, particularly in the Northern Areas liberation was led by great men such as this;

Salute the great officer William Brown, hailing from Scotland.....

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Grandfather and 4 grand-uncles

This is exactly the same in my family. My grandad, all his brothers and even some on my maternal side fought in WW2. My great-grandad fought in WW1. And came 1947 all went into forming the backbone of Pakistan Army. And many fought in 1948, 1965 and 1971 wars.

This is exactly the same in my family. My grandad, all his brothers and even some on my maternal side fought in WW2. My great-grandad fought in WW1. And came 1947 all went into forming the backbone of Pakistan Army. And many fought in 1948, 1965 and 1971 wars.

This is why I get real pissed off by some members here when they say I am not Pakistani etc. Generations of my family have spilled blood [one uncle became a POW in Bangla 71] for Pakistan and some still serve in the PA though numbers have reduced as education and other opportunities became available.

 

[waz]

This is exactly the same in my family. My grandad, all his brothers and even some on my maternal side fought in WW2. My great-grandad fought in WW1. And came 1947 all went into forming the backbone of Pakistan Army. And many fought in 1948, 1965 and 1971 wars.
This is why I get real pissed off by some members here when they say I am not Pakistani etc. Generations of my family have spilled blood [one uncle became a POW in Bangla 71] for Pakistan and some still serve in the PA though numbers have reduced as education and other opportunities became available.

Forget it bro, your family did so much, as did all the families which had men serve. Had it not happened, our beautiful mountains and valleys would have been occupied forever, and Pakistan simply would never have come into being.
Look at the poor Valley Kashmiris who suffer today due to the errors of their forefathers.
Anyway salute and prayers to your forefathers, correct my esteemed elders.

 

[Hamza913]

The nuances are there and jarring reality is there. If men from coterminous Pakistan had not signed up in massive numbers to fight for the British Raj we can almost be 100% sure there would have be NO Pakistan today. That is a FACT. Every action has a consequence. This was the consequence.

That is most certainly true, there was a massive transfer of military tactics through such an experience. One can also understand the need for employment (nationalistic jingoism is easier said when you're not on an empty stomach) and the fact that the Axis were indeed regarded as a dangerous menace.

 

[Desert Fox]

But it has to be said fitting end to the "azad" fauj who would have handed over everything to Imperial Japan for mass enslavement, rape and extermination. A world ruled by Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan how wonderful....

But that's based on speculation.

What we do know is that Britain, France, Soviet Union and America did exactly those things. And the best part? They got to write the historical narrative.

Furthermore, let's not forget that whilst we can discuss what the Axis may have done within what was British India, the British actually did commit such heinous acts. To equate a hypothetical with an actuality is absurd (and no, I'm not absolving the Axis of their improper ideals/actions either, lest someone accuse me of doing such).

Well said.

 

[waz]

But that's based on speculation.

What we do know is that Britain, France, Soviet Union and America did exactly those things. And the best part? They got to write the historical narrative.

No speculation at all, you only need to look at what the Japanese did to the rest of Asia. The other powers didn't for the most part want to mass exterminate, mass rape, burn it all to the ground to create space for their people. The Imperial army took blood letting to another level.
Sure empire wasn't great, but the lesser of the two evils it was.
Beside had more gone over, the Pakistan we have now wouldn't be around.

 

[Desert Fox]

No speculation at all, you only need to look at what the Japanese did to the rest of Asia. The other powers didn't for the most part want to mass exterminate, mass rape, burn it all to the ground to create space for their people. The Imperial army took blood letting to another level.
Sure empire wasn't great, but the lesser of the two evils it was.
Beside had more gone over, the Pakistan we have now wouldn't be around.

Whilst i agree what Japan was doing was pretty brutal, a similar speculation can be made that Japan was going through its colonial phase much like what Britain, France and America went through during their initial expansion. Perhaps Japan might have also settled down once necessary expansion was completed.

Just a side note, I don't condone the expansion of man made systems and ideologies because all of them have proven to be brutal and destructive.

I just think we former subjects of western powers need to come up with our own historical narrative rather than kow-tow to whatever current historical interpretation the West is following based on their currently trending whims and desires subject to change whenever they feel like mass genocides are a good thing again or dropping nukes on civilians is no longer considered a war crime.

 

[waz]

Whilst i agree what Japan was doing was pretty brutal, a similar speculation can be made that Japan was going through its colonial phase much like what Britain, France and America went through during their initial expansion. Perhaps Japan might have also settled down once necessary expansion was completed.

Just a side note, I don't condone the expansion of man made systems and ideologies because all of them have proven to be brutal and destructive.

I just think we former subjects of western powers need to come up with our own historical narrative rather than kow-tow to whatever current historical interpretation the West is following based on their currently trending whims and desires subject to change whenever they feel like mass genocides are a good thing again or dropping nukes on civilians is no longer considered a war crime.

The thing is my forefathers saw first hand what the Japanese had done. What the Japanese did in that short time had never happened before (modern age). The colonial powers took their time, and also didn't go for outright brutality as it was in their interests to keep things stable for their own gains.
The rest I agree with you, our own narrative should be told.

 

[Desert Fox]

The thing is my forefathers saw first hand what the Japanese had done. What the Japanese did in that short time had never happened before (modern age). The colonial powers took their time, and also didn't go for outright brutality as it was in their interests to keep things stable for their own gains.
The rest I agree with you, our own narrative should be told.

Name me one atrocity that Japan did, and I can give you its counterpart that the West committed. The sad part is that we don't even know of all of the atrocities committed by Western powers as they are the ones who control the narrative.

So for all we know Britain might have committed equally barbaric or even worse crimes than Japan, but since the British destroyed so many documents pertaining to their crimes against mankind we will never know

Britain destroyed records of colonial crimes

Review finds thousands of papers detailing shameful acts were culled, while others were kept secret illegally

www.theguardian.com

 

[Itachi]

Azad Hind Fauj...


Now that's a name I haven't heard in a long time. Where's the Azad Hind Fauj 2.0??

Pawan nahi pawn.

Sometimes his Indianness oozes out.

@Imran Khan am I right?