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Authenticity of Pakistan's 'economic crises'

Theres a saying

The quiet before the storm.

Maybe the storm never comes, or maybe its near and the nation are oblivious to it.
 
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How could I forget to tag you guys in this thread?

@That Guy @xyxmt @AlKardai


A million is too much. About half a million or even less would be protesting.

I know there is a slight problem in terms of buying flour in Balochistan and areas like that, but my family in Azad Kashmir has been largely unaffected (We get our power cut most of the hours of the day anyway, since like 2000)

But we have not specifically had much of a food problem, or even a fuel issue
 
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What's your obsession with supporting IK.
Look of 7m were jobless at least a million would be Peacefully protesting
Since I don't even a see a few thousand it's clear that this is lie spread by IK suppoters

Did they get the employment by protesting to begin with?

The itch for political violence that you have is just a fashionable choice in America not everywhere else.
 
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The grid did not fail, it is not designed to cater the power generation capacity. Infrastructure failures are eventualities if development and maintenance of these are plagued with corrupt and failed paper projects.

Same goes for dams, railways and transport systems in rural areas of the country.

These are all employment opportunities for both government and private sectors. All is not lost and there are enough reasons for an optimistic outlook for Pakistan. Average age of Pakistan is ideal for such optimism as well.
The grid did fail nationally. There was/is darkness in most of country. But, as you mentioned, the primary cause was severely diminished utilization that caused imbalance between generation capacity and demand. I am sure there was quite a bit of incompetence and failed maintenance too added in. To see how much imbalance is there between generation capacity and utilization, see:
"January nights have the lowest electricity demand in a year," he explained adding that where the country's electricity demand had exceeded 30,000 megawatts in June, the same had dropped to 8,615 megawatts on Sunday night.

That shows the economy has come to a near standstill, in terms of power consumption.
 
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Doubt it

If 7m people got unemployed why don't we see 1 m people on streets?

I only see people running for biryani

This is all propoganda of PTI.

Everything is Good
Everything is good?! My aunts told my mother yesterday that 3 eggs are selling for 100rs. Wake up
 
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Well I checked ptv news every one seems happy.
No one on streets
So you aunt is probably doesn't know anything
Don't cite anything from media. The same media also says that 7 million were laid off. Tell what you have seen directly with your own eyes.
 
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Can anybody living on ground in Pakistan throw light on Pakistan's current economic crises? The media reports seem exaggerated. What raised my suspicion is the article of '7 million people laid off in textile industry'. 7 million??????!!!!!!!! Pakistani members who say various shortages, electricity breakdowns, the laying off, the synchronized simultaneous border problems with Afghanistan, etc are all real may be affiliated to political parties with their own agenda.

So what's the truth?
It's bad. Really bad. I came back from Pakistan not too long ago.

Constant loadshedding, gas shortage, everything is more expensive (example, the price of rice has doubled within a year, and the month I was there it increased by another rough quarter).

Small businesses just aren't doing as well now, as no one has spare cash to spend.

The VoNC had a devastating effect on the economy as it scared investors away due to political uncertainty, which led to economic uncertainty, which further led to today's crisis.

Everything is good?! My aunts told my mother yesterday that 3 eggs are selling for 100rs. Wake up
Relax, he's trolling. He tends to be cheeky with his comments.
 
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It's more depressing tbh,

This January- dec I visited Pakistan for like a month proper went to malls like 3 times and I swear on everything dear to me

It was filled to the BRIM, I could literally smell everyone's weird mix of sweat and perfume, especially the last time on Friday night, went to local KFC same thing - took me 15-20 minutes to just order my food, same with most famous local restaurants

I took the Metro on I think Tuesday evening 6 ish and station was filled just like the Friday night mall
Mostly regular people but I could definitely see women, men dressed up with makeup and all, going out and about for leisurely activities

Same thing with an amusement park I went to on a workday - filled to the brim

For the bowling alley, it took us 20-30 minutes to get our space, housing societies every f-ing where

But That's on an individual level , I think we have to pay 1.2 $ billion luxury car import bill too Afaik

The dark part is- in the same country a LOT of people are really struggling with inflation, especially after the floods most of our country is struggling, atleast 2-3 beggars on every stop, children selling stuff to feed their family

There's a huge economic divide and no it's not elites, elites alone can't fill out entire Malls, amusement Parks, restaurants etc

Do not forget; besides the elites, you have overseas Pakistanis sending money home, and those extended leeches try and maintain a lifestyle they regularly wouldn't be able to (instead of building something, they squander it all). Then you have a population similar to the west that is trying to match the Jones while they put a financial crunch on the rest of the family.
 
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Can anybody living on ground in Pakistan throw light on Pakistan's current economic crises? The media reports seem exaggerated. What raised my suspicion is the article of '7 million people laid off in textile industry'. 7 million??????!!!!!!!! Pakistani members who say various shortages, electricity breakdowns, the laying off, the synchronized simultaneous border problems with Afghanistan, etc are all real may be affiliated to political parties with their own agenda.

So what's the truth?

Just Indian news channels doing propagada.
 
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Can anybody living on ground in Pakistan throw light on Pakistan's current economic crises? The media reports seem exaggerated. What raised my suspicion is the article of '7 million people laid off in textile industry'. 7 million??????!!!!!!!! Pakistani members who say various shortages, electricity breakdowns, the laying off, the synchronized simultaneous border problems with Afghanistan, etc are all real may be affiliated to political parties with their own agenda.

So what's the truth?
Let me put it like this.

The people of Pakistani are not a as poor as statistics and media and other indicators would say. Not at all. Hence the other examples given by members of malls and restaurants being filled.

I’ve lived in Bangladesh for a while myself and tend to stay up to date on the occurrings in India as well (In regards to things like technology and the automobile sector), and what I’ve learned from all of this is that despite numbers saying that Pakistani has a lower per-capita income than both india and bangladesh, this is simply not true, I’d be willing to bet that Pakistan has a significantly higher per-capita income than both india and Bangladesh, at least if it’s adjusted for inflation and cost of living, but that is not a good thing at all, if anything it’s the opposite. The people of Pakistan don’t declare their wealth and don’t pay their taxes, so on paper, Pakistans per capita income looks very low, but the reality is that when you drive on Pakistani roads or walk into Pakistani malls you see expensive cars, expensive phones, tons of people buying houses and shopping, if there’s an economic crisis, trust me you’ll never see it walking through a Pakistani city, again, having lived in bangladesh and watching people travel to India, they come up with similar conclusions, Pakistan never feels as poor as the other two, you don’t see as many homeless people, or as many beggars, because that’s simply true, the people of Pakistan are (comparatively) richer than their Indian or Bangladeshi counterparts (at least in my experience), but again, that’s a bad thing.

The economic crisis in Pakistan is not on a people level, or even an inflation related issue, the actual inflation rates in Pakistan are quite comparable to the rest of the world over the last 3 years, if anything barring this year in particular, they were some of the lowest, especially in regards to food and oil/petrol prices.

The economic crisis in Pakistan is on a government level, the people of Pakistan are not poor, but the country is absolutely broke, that’s where the difference is, in India and bangladesh the people might seem poorer but the countries are absolutely not in dire straits in regards to forex, foreign reserves, debts and so on, there isn’t a crisis, not the same in Pakistan, and it’s specifically because Pakistani people are richer, which is because they’re not paying their taxes, not declaring their wealth and actual net worths, continue to import and buy expensive cars, technology and so on, continue to trade money in the black market at higher rates and so on. Sure they’ll keep complaining about how things are getting more expensive, and they definitely are, this isn’t a blanket statement, millions of Pakistanis are most definitely effected by increasing prices, particularly the poorest bunch, but there’s just not as many of them as the numbers say, there’s hidden wealth, to the point where a recent study concluded that an average beggar in Pakistan earns more than an average small shopowner, add to that high rates of charity, and there’s just not as many people that are in an economic crisis in Pakistan, just the country itself is in absolutely dire straits, but Pakistanis will absolutely refuse to pay their taxes despite all these issues, partially because they understandably don’t trust the government to handle their money, given his dumb and corrupt they are, and partially because the people of Pakistans themselves are too corrupt and unaware of how badly it affects the country and how the rising prices and failing economy is directly linked to them not paying taxes. It’s a double sided destructive cycle with a million factors at play.

What has been effected are living standards and layoffs. Many large companies have been reducing or shutting down production and laying off employees in the last year, and the effects of that are not coming yet, because it’s too recent, eventually when all those laid off people start to reach the ends of their savings or can’t find new jobs, we will see a crisis (won’t be long now if things stay the way they are).
Generally, while the people aren’t at their breaking point yet, they are capable of affording less stuff overall than before, the breaking point comes when the country itself (economy) finally reaches its breaking point, when there’s no more money to pay the debts or for imports, when the medicine and oil and money reserves run out (happening as we speak) etc etc, that’s when we’ll actually know just how much the people of Pakistan will be affected, so far they’ve been affected rather minimally all things considered, so in Pakistan, despite all the paranoia, for now, life seems relatively normal, just a bit more expensive. This recent outtage is entirely unrelated to Pakistans current economic state, it’s just being hyped up by emotionally charged Pakistanis who are (understandably) fed up with the current government. So don’t relate that to anything.
For how long it’ll stay like that I can’t say, but I know for sure that on the current trajectory there will be a tipping point when everything goes to shit.

This is only one side of the story however, Pakistan has been here a million times before and has managed to make it out, it’ll improve again, and then it’ll come back to this stage again too, there are always options to find a way out. For more on that, I’d recommend reading some of the replies and sources in this thread, you’ll understand which ones I mean in regards to a way out for Pakistan: https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/pakistan-is-not-collapsing.759309/unread
 
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Let me put it like this.

The people of Pakistani are not a as poor as statistics and media and other indicators would say. Not at all. Hence the other examples given by members of malls and restaurants being filled.

I’ve lived in Bangladesh for a while myself and tend to stay up to date on the occurrings in India as well (In regards to things like technology and the automobile sector), and what I’ve learned from all of this is that despite numbers saying that Pakistani has a lower per-capita income than both india and bangladesh, this is simply not true, I’d be willing to bet that Pakistan has a significantly higher per-capita income than both india and Bangladesh, at least if it’s adjusted for inflation and cost of living, but that is not a good thing at all, if anything it’s the opposite. The people of Pakistan don’t declare their wealth and don’t pay their taxes, so on paper, Pakistans per capita income looks very low, but the reality is that when you drive on Pakistani roads or walk into Pakistani malls you see expensive cars, expensive phones, tons of people buying houses and shopping, if there’s an economic crisis, trust me you’ll never see it walking through a Pakistani city, again, having lived in bangladesh and watching people travel to India, they come up with similar conclusions, Pakistan never feels as poor as the other two, you don’t see as many homeless people, or as many beggars, because that’s simply true, the people of Pakistan are (comparatively) richer than their Indian or Bangladeshi counterparts (at least in my experience), but again, that’s a bad thing.

The economic crisis in Pakistan is not on a people level, or even an inflation related issue, the actual inflation rates in Pakistan are quite comparable to the rest of the world over the last 3 years, if anything barring this year in particular, they were some of the lowest, especially in regards to food and oil/petrol prices.

The economic crisis in Pakistan is on a government level, the people of Pakistan are not poor, but the country is broke, that’s where the difference is, in India and bangladesh the people might seem poorer but the countries are absolutely not in dire straits in regards to forex, foreign reserves, debts and so on, there isn’t a crisis, not the same in Pakistan, and it’s specifically because Pakistani people are richer, which is because they’re not paying their taxes, not declaring their wealth and actual net worths, continue to import and buy expensive cars, technology and so on, continue to trade money in the black market at higher rates and so on. Sure they’ll keep complaining about how things are getting more expensive, and they definitely are, this isn’t a blanket statement, millions of Pakistanis are most definitely effected by increasing prices, particularly the poorest bunch, but there’s just not as many of them as the numbers say, there’s hidden wealth, to the point where a recent study concluded that an average beggar in Pakistan earns more than an average small shopowner, add to that high rates of charity, and there’s just not as many people that are in an economic crisis in Pakistan, just the country itself is in absolutely dire straits.

What has been effected are living standards, while the people aren’t at their breaking point yet, they are generally capable of affording less luxury overall than before, now the real breaking point comes when the country finally reaches its breaking point, when there’s no more money to pay the debts or for imports, when the medicine and oil and money reserves run out (happening as we speak) etc etc, that’s when we’ll actually know just how much the people of Pakistan will be affected, so far they’ve been affected rather minimally all things considered, so in Pakistan, despite all the paranoia, for now, life seems relatively normal, just a bit more expensive. For how long it’ll stay like that I can’t say, but I know for sure that on the current trajectory there will be a tipping point when everything goes to shit.
Pakistani producers are also relatively more 'inward looking' than their counterparts in India and Bangladesh. Our businesses generally operate on the maxim of fulfilling domestic demand first and then selling the surplus. They don't focus on exportability and, as a result, they leave a lot on the table in terms of efficiency, building margin, expanding and hiring more people, etc. However, because they don't export as much, Pakistan doesn't generate as much foreign currency, which has been a critical problem for the government (in its ability to honour the outward currency flows of critical imports, like energy, and to honour previous debt, which is paid in USD, etc).

I don't think Pakistan needs to be export-oriented per se. With a market of 200 million people, you're generally OK with being locally focused. However, the lack of export powerhouses speaks to some underlying inefficiencies which are holding us back in other ways, like indigenization (where we produce more of the goods at home rather than import). So, for example, we haven't upskilled our labour pool through education. If we lack skilled workers, then our ability to absorb or develop technology across key areas like medicine, auto, aviation, transport, etc is limited. By just indigenizing for the local need (of 200 million!) we could generate enough economies-of-scale to produce efficiency and export competitively.

More broadly, the dissonance you've described also speaks to the public's general distrust of the government and system. The latter simply lack the real legitimacy they need to get people to pay into the system (and, evidently, for valid reasons). I do think there's a scenario if the public and system "align" the leadership can mobilize the country in productive and powerful ways.

The pessimistic side is that it doesn't seem like Pakistanis will change, fair. On the other hand, the optimistic side is that if we do get the right leadership with public alignment, they can build Pakistan rapidly.
 
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Pakistan is self sufficient.

We grow and eat our food.

Pakistanis for most part live a better life than people from other countries in the neighborhood.

Pakistan does not rely on tourism like Sri Lanka & Maldives or garment exports like BD or IT services exports like India.

Hence Pakistan is immune to global recssions.
 
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Can anybody living on ground in Pakistan throw light on Pakistan's current economic crises? The media reports seem exaggerated. What raised my suspicion is the article of '7 million people laid off in textile industry'. 7 million??????!!!!!!!! Pakistani members who say various shortages, electricity breakdowns, the laying off, the synchronized simultaneous border problems with Afghanistan, etc are all real may be affiliated to political parties with their own agenda.

So what's the truth?
7 million is a bit big number even by the standards of Indian population.

@jamahir @Drizzt @N.Siddiqui @SIPRA
 
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