australian navy violates Indonesian waters, Indonesia demands end to Australian provocations

[Wholegrain]

Indonesia to Australia: stop crossing the line - CSMonitor.com

Cookies must be enabled. | The Australian

Indonesia demands Australia stops risking violation of territory, increases navy patrols - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

BBC News - Indonesia condemns Australian navy waters violations

Indonesia bristles over 'deplorable' Australian sea incursions| Reuters

BY RIEKA RAHADIANA AND MATT SIEGEL
JAKARTA/SYDNEY Fri Jan 17, 2014 6:04am EST

(Reuters) - Indonesia will increase maritime patrols after what it called deplorable territorial violations by Australia's navy as it tried to turn back asylum seekers, worsening an already bitter dispute between the two neighbors over the issue.

Earlier on Friday, Australia apologized for a number of recent incursions into Indonesian waters as part of Canberra's controversial policy of pushing back boats carrying would-be asylum seekers entering its side of the sea.

"Indonesia...will intensify its maritime patrols in areas where violations of its sovereignty and territorial integrity are at risk," the political and security coordinating ministry said in a revised statement.

It withdrew an earlier statement which had used a softer tone.

The revised statement called the incursions deplorable, demanding formal diplomatic clarification and assurances that such incidents would not be repeated.

Australian Immigration Minister Scott Morrison said he had been told earlier this week about the "inadvertent breaches" on multiple days and immediately informed the Indonesian navy.

The latest spat comes as often tense relations between the neighbors touched their lowest since the 1990s after allegations late last year that Australia had spied on President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono and other senior Indonesian officials.

Indonesia downgraded its relations with Australia in November as a result of those allegations, suspending intelligence and military cooperation, including over asylum seekers.

The increasing strain on ties has serious economic implications. Indonesia is a major importer of Australian agricultural products such as wheat and live cattle. Australia is Indonesia's 10th-largest export market.

Morrison's office also said Foreign Minister Julie Bishop had sent a letter to her Indonesian counterpart.

Morrison said Australia "deeply regrets" the breaches of territorial sovereignty but at the same time maintained Australia's right to protect its own borders.

"We have offered the apologies, we have been very clear about what has occurred both with Indonesia and here today," he told reporters.

"But we won't let this setback get in the way of the job we were elected to do, which is stop the boats," he said.

The number of refugees involved pales in comparison with other countries but is a polarizing political issue in Australia and stokes tension with Indonesia over border policies that have been criticized by the United Nations and international human rights groups.

Prime Minister Tony Abbott's conservative government came to power partly because of its tough campaign against asylum seekers after an easing of border policies by the former Labor government that resulted in a rise in the number of boats.

Its policies include offshore detention centers that hold thousands of asylum seekers, many of whom have fled conflicts in Afghanistan, Darfur, Pakistan, Somalia and Syria.

CONCERNS OVER SECRECY

Abbott's government is also coming under fire at home over the secrecy surrounding its "Operation Sovereign Borders" asylum policy, which he recently likened to a war. He has said secrecy is important to prevent "the enemy" receiving information.

On Wednesday, Morrison moved to restrict access to information even further as he touted the operation's success, refusing to confirm reports that the navy had forced the return of a number of boats to Indonesia in recent weeks.

The U.N. refugee agency has asked for information from the government, warning that Australia could be breaking international law if it is forcing boats back to Indonesia without proper regard for refugees' safety.

Graeme McGregor, a spokesman for Amnesty International, called "absurd" Canberra's continued refusal to provide greater information about the policy to the public in the wake of an incursion that he says threatens to derail the regional framework on refugee resettlement.

"I think the public have a right to know how their money is being spent, and I think the current government's policies of secrecy and masking that information are not helpful," he told Reuters.

Many trying to reach Australia pay people-smugglers in Indonesia to make the perilous journey in often unsafe boats.

(Writing by Jane Wardell and Jonathan Thatcher, Editing by Raju Gopalakrishnan)

 

[Wholegrain]

And America will not condemn Australian violations of Indonesia's waters, they are too busy defecating and regurgitating crap about the South China Sea, like our fellow forum member Krueger.

 

[jhungary]

Australia sorry for Indonesia intrusion but vows to stop boats

Australia sorry for Indonesia intrusion but vows to stop boats | GlobalPost

The Australian government apologised unreservedly to Jakarta on Friday after its navy "inadvertently" violated Indonesian waters during border security operations, but vowed to pursue its policies to halt asylum-seeker boats.

Asylum-seekers arriving on unauthorised boats in Australia, often via Indonesia, are a sensitive issue for both sides, and Canberra's military-led Operation Sovereign Borders to clamp down on them has raised concerns in Jakarta.

"We deeply regret these events," Immigration Minister Scott Morrison told a press conference before issuing a statement declaring the hardline stance had resulted in no single arrival for more than four weeks.

Foreign Minister Julie Bishop on Thursday night offered her Indonesian counterpart Marty Natalegawa "an unqualified apology on behalf of the Australian government for inadvertently entering Indonesia's territorial waters", Morrison said.

With Canberra's vital relationship with Jakarta already strained over spying allegations, she also gave "an assurance that such a breach of Indonesian territorial waters would not re-occur".

Morrison said the government learnt Wednesday that the Australians had entered Indonesian waters on several occasions.
"I should stress this occurred unintentionally and without knowledge or sanction by the Australian government," he said.
Lieutenant General Angus Campbell, who heads the operation to stop asylum-seekers arriving in Australia by sea, refused to detail what the vessels were doing for "operational reasons".

But the Australian newspaper reported the navy had been pushing back an asylum-seeker boat at the time.

Under the new government's policy, not only are asylum-seekers arriving by boat sent to Pacific island camps for processing with no chance of settlement in Australia, but boats intercepted at sea can be turned back to Indonesia.

The policy angers Jakarta which has suggested it could infringe the country's sovereignty and the issue has strained relations between the nations.

Agus Barnas, spokesman for Indonesian coordinating minister for political, legal and security affairs Djoko Suyanto, said Friday he did not have any details about the territorial breaches.

But he went on: "If they enter our waters without our permission, of course that could worsen our bilateral relations.
"It could interrupt the normalisation process going on between Australia and Indonesia. Australia should fully respect Indonesia, and if they have entered our waters, that could be seen as a breach of our sovereignty."

Morrison insisted there would be no change in Australia's policy, which has been characterised by a near blackout on events at sea.

"Despite the unintentional entry of Australian border protection assets into Indonesian territorial waters, our operations that are stopping the boats will continue," he said in a statement.

"There will be no change of policy. We will simply be making sure that there will be full operational compliance with our policies to stop the boats."

With no-one who has arrived illegally by boat being transferred to Australian immigration authorities since December 19, it was the first time in more than five years that no asylum-seekers had arrived at this time of the year, he added.
Arrivals have fallen more than 80 percent since the Liberal-National government won power in September.

Australia's military chief of staff and the head of border protection would front a review of the violations, Morrison said, as reports emerged that the navy had started using lifeboats to return asylum-seekers to Indonesia.

The Sydney Morning Herald detailed allegations from asylum-seekers now back in Indonesia that the navy had tricked 56 of them into boarding a lifeboat in the belief they were being taken to Australia's Christmas Island.

A group of the would-be refugees from South Asia told the daily they scuttled their vessel last week in a bid to avoid going back. But after being rescued and kept for three days on a navy ship they were put into a lifeboat and thrown a document telling them to go back to Indonesia.

"You have enough fuel to reach land in Indonesia," said the document dated December 2013. "You do not have enough fuel to continue your voyage to Australia."

The men said they were dropped very close to Indonesia and were ashore in only three hours.
bp/mfc/pj

Copyright AFP, 2013.

Australia sorry for Indonesia intrusion but vows to stop boats | GlobalPost

In short, if Indonesia cannot stop the boat from going out, Australian will stop them for you and tow them back to Indonesia, even if that mean an intrusion again.

 

[Wholegrain]

Australia sorry for Indonesia intrusion but vows to stop boats

Australia sorry for Indonesia intrusion but vows to stop boats | GlobalPost

The Australian government apologised unreservedly to Jakarta on Friday after its navy "inadvertently" violated Indonesian waters during border security operations, but vowed to pursue its policies to halt asylum-seeker boats.

Asylum-seekers arriving on unauthorised boats in Australia, often via Indonesia, are a sensitive issue for both sides, and Canberra's military-led Operation Sovereign Borders to clamp down on them has raised concerns in Jakarta.

"We deeply regret these events," Immigration Minister Scott Morrison told a press conference before issuing a statement declaring the hardline stance had resulted in no single arrival for more than four weeks.

Foreign Minister Julie Bishop on Thursday night offered her Indonesian counterpart Marty Natalegawa "an unqualified apology on behalf of the Australian government for inadvertently entering Indonesia's territorial waters", Morrison said.

With Canberra's vital relationship with Jakarta already strained over spying allegations, she also gave "an assurance that such a breach of Indonesian territorial waters would not re-occur".

Morrison said the government learnt Wednesday that the Australians had entered Indonesian waters on several occasions.
"I should stress this occurred unintentionally and without knowledge or sanction by the Australian government," he said.
Lieutenant General Angus Campbell, who heads the operation to stop asylum-seekers arriving in Australia by sea, refused to detail what the vessels were doing for "operational reasons".

But the Australian newspaper reported the navy had been pushing back an asylum-seeker boat at the time.

Under the new government's policy, not only are asylum-seekers arriving by boat sent to Pacific island camps for processing with no chance of settlement in Australia, but boats intercepted at sea can be turned back to Indonesia.

The policy angers Jakarta which has suggested it could infringe the country's sovereignty and the issue has strained relations between the nations.

Agus Barnas, spokesman for Indonesian coordinating minister for political, legal and security affairs Djoko Suyanto, said Friday he did not have any details about the territorial breaches.

But he went on: "If they enter our waters without our permission, of course that could worsen our bilateral relations.
"It could interrupt the normalisation process going on between Australia and Indonesia. Australia should fully respect Indonesia, and if they have entered our waters, that could be seen as a breach of our sovereignty."

Morrison insisted there would be no change in Australia's policy, which has been characterised by a near blackout on events at sea.

"Despite the unintentional entry of Australian border protection assets into Indonesian territorial waters, our operations that are stopping the boats will continue," he said in a statement.

"There will be no change of policy. We will simply be making sure that there will be full operational compliance with our policies to stop the boats."

With no-one who has arrived illegally by boat being transferred to Australian immigration authorities since December 19, it was the first time in more than five years that no asylum-seekers had arrived at this time of the year, he added.
Arrivals have fallen more than 80 percent since the Liberal-National government won power in September.

Australia's military chief of staff and the head of border protection would front a review of the violations, Morrison said, as reports emerged that the navy had started using lifeboats to return asylum-seekers to Indonesia.

The Sydney Morning Herald detailed allegations from asylum-seekers now back in Indonesia that the navy had tricked 56 of them into boarding a lifeboat in the belief they were being taken to Australia's Christmas Island.

A group of the would-be refugees from South Asia told the daily they scuttled their vessel last week in a bid to avoid going back. But after being rescued and kept for three days on a navy ship they were put into a lifeboat and thrown a document telling them to go back to Indonesia.

"You have enough fuel to reach land in Indonesia," said the document dated December 2013. "You do not have enough fuel to continue your voyage to Australia."

The men said they were dropped very close to Indonesia and were ashore in only three hours.
bp/mfc/pj

Copyright AFP, 2013.

Australia sorry for Indonesia intrusion but vows to stop boats | GlobalPost

In short, if Indonesia cannot stop the boat from going out, Australian will stop them for you and tow them back to Indonesia, even if that mean an intrusion again.

We had this discussion about Australia alienating its neighbors and sticking its nose into its neighbora business. Remember back in 2006 when Australia incited riots to unseat East Timor's Arab Muslim Prime Minister Alkatiri because he didn't want to be Australia's puppet, and Australian media demonized him because of his religion? Alkatiri reached out to China for help against Australia's claims on East Timor's gas fields, so Australia decided to remove him.

Australia 'spied on Indonesian President Yudhoyono' | Page 4

Greenleft is a supporter of MILF in Mindanao.

Greenleft also supports the Arab-Muslim former PM of East Timor, Mari Alkatiri, because he was against Australia stealing East Timor's gas.

East Timor: Fretilin leader calls for Australian troops' withdrawal | Green Left Weekly

EAST TIMOR: Mari Alkatiri's unseating | Green Left Weekly

East Timor after Alkatiri: nation or protectorate? | Green Left Weekly

Australia unstead Alkatiri in 2006 by formenting riots in East Timor and intervening militarily. They tried toportray him as a "marxist" "communist" Muslim who threatened Australia's security.

Foras Teamhrach

Stand up, the real Mr. Alkatiri

Australia continues its unrelenting campaign for “regime change” in East Timor - World Socialist Web Site

 

[xdrive]

And America will not condemn Australian violations of Indonesia's waters, they are too busy defecating and regurgitating crap about the South China Sea, like our fellow forum member Krueger.

Why would the U.S condemn Australia? First of all, the incident has nothing to do with the U.S and Australia already admitted the mistake and apologized.

Indonesia wasn't even aware that Australian Navy ships had entered until the Australian government told the Indonesians.

In short, if Indonesia cannot stop the boat from going out, Australian will stop them for you and tow them back to Indonesia, even if that mean an intrusion again.

Indonesia can stop the illegal immigrant boats, but they refuse too. They want to get rid of them and are actively aiding criminal people smuggling organizations with their people smuggling operations. Australia's borders have been breached constantly for the past 6 years, almost daily because Indonesia refuses to stop the boats.

 

[Developereo]

The Australian government is run by idiot bogans.

The imbecile Tony Abbott doesn't know when he is babbling to his mates at the trailer park and when he is forming international policies. He has already harmed relations with Indonesia, East Timor and China.

Tony Abbott came to power on the back of rantings by the Murdoch media about invasion by boat people even though the government's own numbers indicate that 80-90% of the "boat people" are genuine refugees.

And America will not condemn Australian violations of Indonesia's waters, they are too busy defecating and regurgitating crap about the South China Sea, like our fellow forum member Krueger.

As far as we know, the violations were not intentional but accidental. Australia has no intention of triggering any conflict with Indonesia.

 

[nufix]

In short, if Indonesia cannot stop the boat from going out, Australian will stop them for you and tow them back to Indonesia, even if that mean an intrusion again.

Well I hope the right wing extremists win this year's election so that they will have no doubt to bump Australian warships. Intrusion means violating borders regardless the reason, provoking is not a wise move for Australia after the spying scandal.

 

[jhungary]

We had this discussion about Australia alienating its neighbors and sticking its nose into its neighbora business. Remember back in 2006 when Australia incited riots to unseat East Timor's Arab Muslim Prime Minister Alkatiri because he didn't want to be Australia's puppet, and Australian media demonized him because of his religion? Alkatiri reached out to China for help against Australia's claims on East Timor's gas fields, so Australia decided to remove him.

Australia 'spied on Indonesian President Yudhoyono' | Page 4

I have nothing to say to you when you claim reference to extremist green left website, you may as we'll reference to Taliban Australian Branch

By the way, do you know why green left support the Arabic Islamic East Timor government and MNLF right?

So that they can deport every Muslim in Australia and from their own Utopia.

Iol .

 

[Developereo]

I have nothing to say to you when you claim reference to extremist green left website, you may as we'll reference to Taliban Australian Branch

By the way, do you know why green left support the Arabic Islamic East Timor government and MNLF right?

So that they can deport every Muslim in Australia and from their own Utopia.

Iol .

What are you smoking?

Do you deny that the Abbott government has drawn sharp rebuke from Indonesia, East Timor and China?

Where's your evidence that the Greens want to deport all Australian Muslims?

 

[jhungary]

Well I hope the right wing extremists win this year's election so that they will have no doubt to bump Australian warships. Intrusion means violating borders regardless the reason, provoking is not a wise move for Australia after the spying scandal.

The problem is, there are no other way, currently there are talks with Indonesian to charter or buy boat to transport the refugee back to Indonesia. But for some reason they are not considered by the Indonesian government.

You cannot denial that there are more to do in Indonesia to stop those boat but your government see that was an Australian problem and basically ignore it

I was in Hong Kong when the height of Boat people rush to Hong Kong from Vietnam, and believe me, there are many thing your government can do but not really in placed

So that goes down to the basic, if there are no help from your government, that mean we can only do it ourselves, and believe me, it would actually be better for the right wing to win election in Indonesian.

Currently there are no call out from the Indonesia side, believe me, if the right wing win and send out Indonesian warship to challenge Australian, we will see RAN turn around and leave the boat at contiguous zone to the Indonesian authority, then they will become your problem.

This is actually better then the situation now, as no Indonesian authority would venture out, at least if right wing win out, they will come out and take responsibility

 

[jhungary]

What are you smoking?

Do you deny that the Abbott government has drawn sharp rebuke from Indonesia, East Timor and China?

Where's your evidence that the Greens want to deport all Australian Muslims?

Lol what did TA do with my comment to whole grain?

He is quoting Greenleft, which is an extreme leftist publication in Australian, I merely tell him if he want to quote green left, he may as we'll quote Taliban Australian chapter, which actually did exist

What that have to do with Tony Abbott? And why stop there? Yeah, he was ridicule by the Indonesian, Chinese and East Timor. We also ridicule him on his smuggie buggler, you want to talk about that too?

And since when should we be pro-china? Rudd is as pro-china as they come, see how he fared in last election?

And it's Greenleft not green I am talking about, Australian Greens is left leaning, while green left is extremist left. Have you read their publication lately? Do I need to say more?

Dude, I am part Chinese, all the Chinese friend I know voted for labor, does that mean I have to?

People support their government by way of election, if you think Tony Abbot is doing a crappy job, then you can try vote him out on the next sitting, before then, he is still our PM and lib is still the ruling party. Nothing can change that

 

[Developereo]

Lol what did TA do with my comment to whole grain?

He is quoting Greenleft, which is an extreme leftist publication in Australian, I merely tell him if he want to quote green left, he may as we'll quote Taliban Australian chapter, which actually did exist

What that have to do with Tony Abbott? And why stop there? Yeah, he was ridicule by the Indonesian, Chinese and East Timor. We also ridicule him on his smuggie buggler, you want to talk about that too?

And since when should we be pro-china? Rudd is as pro-china as they come, see how he fared in last election?

And it's Greenleft not green I am talking about, Australian Greens is left leaning, while green left is extremist left. Have you read their publication lately? Do I need to say more?

I don't know about greenleft.

You were responding to his comment that the Abbott government has alienated its neighbors and I agree with him. It's not about being pro-China but acknowledging that Abbott has the foreign policy acumen of a mollusk.

Even John Howard was smart enough not to get involved in the China-Japan issue.but Abbott and Bishop bumbled right into it needlessly.

About the spying scandals, even hardcore conservative columnists like Paul Sheehan have criticized Abbott's handling of the matter.

 

[jhungary]

I don't know about greenleft.

You were responding to his comment that the Abbott government has alienated its neighbors and I agree with him. It's not about being pro-China but acknowledging that Abbott has the foreign policy acumen of a mollusk.

Even John Howard was smart enough not to get involved in the China-Japan issue.but Abbott and Bishop bumbled right into it needlessly.

About the spying scandals, even hardcore conservative columnists like Paul Sheehan have criticized Abbott's handling of the matter.

His word have nothing to do with alienating the Neighbour, in fact, even with the scandal, the relationship between Australia does not fall behind neutral, which was what it always was beside the period when Australia support East Timor, back then the relationship is hostile)

I don't see how the ship intrusion damage or further damage the relationship, we did not untrue Indonesian water intentional, we were challenged and we apologised for it, we are simply protecting our border, which an issue we have discussed with Indonesia for 6 years and counting, but they did not want to do anything, then naturally we can only step up an effort

Or are you saying we should open our border and let every boat come simply because Indonesian does not want to consider the issue and label it Australian problem?

And finally it was the labor government ordered the spying in 2007/2008, it was found out in June 2013. That does not mean the spying only start in 2013, which a fact seems many people forgot

 

[Developereo]

His word have nothing to do with alienating the Neighbour, in fact, even with the scandal, the relationship between Australia does not fall behind neutral, which was what it always was beside the period when Australia support East Timor, back then the relationship is hostile)

I don't see how the ship intrusion damage or further damage the relationship, we did not untrue Indonesian water intentional, we were challenged and we apologised for it, we are simply protecting our border, which an issue we have discussed with Indonesia for 6 years and counting, but they did not want to do anything, then naturally we can only step up an effort

The relationship with the three countries is worse now than it was when Abbott came into office. In the space of a few months, his government has damaged three important relationships.

Or are you saying we should open our border and let every boat come simply because Indonesian does not want to consider the issue and label it Australian problem?

Since you are part-Vietnamese, did your ancestors come to Australia as refugees?
Do you know the number of "boat people" asylum seekers today compared to those days?
Do you know that 80-90% of the "boat people" are determined to be genuine refugees by Australian courts?
Do you know that the lie about queue jumping has been debunked by the immigration department?

There is so much hate mongering and blatant lies in the media that is dispelled just by reading the immigration department's own numbers.

And finally it was the labor government ordered the spying in 2007/2008, it was found out in June 2013. That does not mean the spying only start in 2013, which a fact seems many people forgot

That's irrelevant.

Abbott is the sitting PM - he must deal with the situation; he can't just pass the buck and say "it wasn't me".

Will he renege on trade agreements signed by previous governments and say "it was the other guys' fault".?

A government is judged by how it handles events as they occur, and Abbott has failed miserably in the foreign relations department.

 

[jhungary]

The relationship with the three countries is worse now than it was when Abbott came into office. In the space of a few months, his government has damaged three important relationships.



Since you are part-Vietnamese, did your ancestors come to Australia as refugees?
Do you know the number of "boat people" asylum seekers today compared to those days?
Do you know that 80-90% of the "boat people" are determined to be genuine refugees by Australian courts?
Do you know that the lie about queue jumping has been debunked by the immigration department?

There is so much hate mongering and blatant lies in the media that is dispelled just by reading the immigration department's own numbers.



That's irrelevant.

Abbott is the sitting PM - he must deal with the situation; he can't just pass the buck and say "it wasn't me".

Will he renege on trade agreements signed by previous governments and say "it was the other guys' fault".?

A government is judged by how it handles events as they occur, and Abbott has failed miserably in the foreign relations department.

Lol all time low or not, the prospect of Abbot in office does not start from there, it's started way before Abbott

The Chinese thing and the Indonesian were both started by Julia Gillard when the mining tax was charged and most Chinese investment is on that sector

The boat people is also started when the Kevin Rudd started to loosen up the policy and general Australian failed to impress and again Julia Gillard tightened the policy and starting to piss off Indonesia. Tony Abbott does not go from zero to turning the boat back overnight

The spying scandal is started during labor tenure on the government, and when Tony Abbott got in office, what do you expect him to do? Come clean?

The problem is, Indonesia is not really our allies to beginning with, spying on them is an actual move, what do you expect tony Abbott to do? Apologise for it but insist we will keep doing it in the future?

There are no point to blame Abbott as he is between a hard place and a rock, you apologise for it and you seems weak, you don't and you pissed off Indonesian, seeing it's not Indonesian who's voting in election, I would say he had chosen the right path don't you think?

And please do not compare my ancestor to these boat people, my ancestor gone to Hong Kong and wait for it in a refugee camp like everybody else, nobody is saying they are not legit refugee, but pissed off at them jumping the queue like that.

A lot of Vietnamese refugee and some of my Croatian friend actually hate those boat people, while my Vietnamese friend endure beating, abusing in a refugee camp somewhere far away, and the Croatian endure bombing day and night to get a visa, they expect to hop on a boat and get protective visa in Australia?

Not that their political refugee status are pissing off people, I don't care if 100% of boat people are legit refugee, you still got to wait, it's not fair to those people who waited. The queue jumping stun is what pissing people off, never where they were from and were they legit.

Did I feel for them? Of course I do, still you need to wait in line, that's what law and order is for. If we ignore the law and order part, then what is the different to the place they fled from?