Australia 'spied on Indonesian President Yudhoyono'

[Nike]

Indonesian gov. decides to take a distance from the arrogance of Anglo Saxon countries and take a comfort with the Russians and Chinese, including where to shopping arms. My friend in Ministry of Foreign affair told me last night

 

[Maxtini]

The only "advantage" Indonesia gains from acting this way is to pander to Indonesia voters as i already pointed out. This is a well observed fact in Australia and we all know why Indonesia is being over the top about this.

Isn't it obvious? We don't want to share the burden of boat people with Australia, that's your problem not ours. Thanks to this spying fiasco, we could excuse ourselves not to cooperate

Indonesia has much more to lose in the long term for behaving like this, but they are only focusing on the short term with their election..

Care to elaborate what Indonesia is losing by limiting cooperation with Australia?
The last time I check they are minimal. Oh~ and before you begin with classic Australian response with something called "Aid", I suggest you do a bit more research about it. Australian aid didn't really have more influence and impact to Indonesian than you might think.

 

[xdrive]

Isn't it obvious? We don't want to share the burden of boat people with Australia, that's your problem not ours. Thanks to this spying fiasco, we could excuse ourselves not to cooperate

It's not our problem. Indonesia is openly facilitating criminal smugglers and government officials are openly aiding them in their illegal activity. These bogus asylum seekrs fly to your territory to try to illegally enter Australia, it's Indonesias responsibility to stop them.

Indonesia wasn't cooperating before this spying scandal, so it doesn't matter.

Care to elaborate what Indonesia is losing by limiting cooperation with Australia?

Military cooperation and everything else they halted. It's not a one way street, it's not like Australia loses everything and Indonesia loses nothing.

The last time I check they are minimal. Oh~ and before you begin with classic Australian response with something called "Aid", I suggest you do a bit more research about it. Australian aid didn't really have more influence and impact to Indonesian than you might think

Aid is one aspect, but that's continuing. Giving Aid isn't about "gaining influence"

Indonesian gov. decides to take a distance from the arrogance of Anglo Saxon countries and take a comfort with the Russians and Chinese, including where to shopping arms. My friend in Ministry of Foreign affair told me last night

Again what does race have to do with anything? If you actually knew anything about Australia you would know Australia isn't an "Anglo-saxon" country. It's a multi-racial and multi-ethnic country.

Yeah Abbott and his administrations just doing it right, giving us a plenty reason why our peoples should to choose a more hard liner President for the next election, and it will be bad for the future of Indonesia Australia relations for the long term. And you guys from around the world can see what a country Australia and what kind of jerk Australia administrations is capable of, pulling out such schemes and back stabbing the person who give you a lot of trust and mutual respect like Sir Yudhoyono while he and his administrations trying so hard to laying the better foundation for Indonesia Australia in the future. It is too hard to say sorry for a while and you doing it not for us exactly but for the better future of Indonesian and Australian peoples in an era we calling it as Asian Centuries

You are failing to understand that spying is done by every country in the world and is widely acknowledged and accepted. You are pretending that the Australain government is being a "jerk" and is doing something wrong when that isn't the case and you are pretending that the Indonesian government didn't know about the spying when it did.

EVERY GOVERNMENT IN THE WORLD SPIES AND EVERY GOVERNMENT KNOWS IT. What's so hard to understand about that?

Iv said this over and over again. Indonesia was caught publicly spying on Australia in 2004, did our government care? No, BECAUSE EVERY GOVERNMENT SPIES AND EVERYONE KNOWS IT.

It isn't a secret.

 

[Maxtini]

It's not our problem. Indonesia is openly facilitating criminal smugglers and government officials are openly aiding them in their illegal activity. These bogus asylum seekrs fly to your territory to try to illegally enter Australia, it's Indonesias responsibility to stop them.

Indonesia wasn't cooperating before this spying scandal, so it doesn't matter.





Military cooperation and everything else they halted. It's not a one way street, it's not like Australia loses everything and Indonesia loses nothing.



Aid is one aspect, but that's continuing. Giving Aid isn't about "gaining influence"



Again what does race have to do with anything? If you actually knew anything about Australia you would know Australia isn't an "Anglo-saxon" country. It's a multi-racial and multi-ethnic country.



You are failing to understand that spying is done by every country in the world and is widely acknowledged and accepted. You are pretending that the Australain government is being a "jerk" and is doing something wrong when that isn't the case and you are pretending that the Indonesian government didn't know about the spying when it did.

EVERY GOVERNMENT IN THE WORLD SPIES AND EVERY GOVERNMENT KNOWS IT. What's so hard to understand about that?

Iv said this over and over again. Indonesia was caught publicly spying on Australia in 2004, did our government care? No, BECAUSE EVERY GOVERNMENT SPIES AND EVERYONE KNOWS IT.

It isn't a secret.

I don't think you know the game dude~
It's no spying that matter, it is how you play the game once you get caught.

Here is how the game is played:
1. Everyone spies on each other.
2. Oops! We caught them spying on us!
3. Did we have something to gain or lose from that?
Scenario 1: Nothing to gain, a lot to lose, better be quiet and discreet otherwise we might damage the relation we have -> Australia in 2004
Scenario 2: Yes! Jackpot time! Better press hard to gain advantage as much as we can get -> Indonesia in 2013

To continue playing scenario 2, the one get caught must:
4. "We don't comment on intelligence matter, but we can make sure it is not happening now." -> Obama 2013
5. Better call the president/PM in person -> Obama 2013
6. Everything return to normal and spying continues.

Obama played it well, Tony Abbot didn't and made thing worse. Just as simple as that.

 

[Viet]

I guess one of reasons why Indonesia has gone over the top (as xdrive says) is because the president´s wife phone is wiretapped. But what does the Australian agency get if it succeeds: shopping lists?

Indonesian gov. decides to take a distance from the arrogance of Anglo Saxon countries and take a comfort with the Russians and Chinese, including where to shopping arms. My friend in Ministry of Foreign affair told me last night

Í don´t think it is a wise move. Care of your words. Besides, the Russians and Chinese are not your pawn.

 

[Nike]

I don't think you know the game dude~
It's no spying that matter, it is how you play the game once you get caught.

Here is how the game is played:
1. Everyone spies on each other.
2. Oops! We caught them spying on us!
3. Did we have something to gain or lose from that?
Scenario 1: Nothing to gain, a lot to lose, better be quiet and discreet otherwise we might damage the relation we have -> Australia in 2004
Scenario 2: Yes! Jackpot time! Better press hard to gain advantage as much as we can get -> Indonesia in 2013

To continue playing scenario 2, the one get caught must:
4. "We don't comment on intelligence matter, but we can make sure it is not happening now." -> Obama 2013
5. Better call the president/PM in person -> Obama 2013
6. Everything return to normal and spying continues.

Obama played it well, Tony Abbot didn't and made thing worse. Just as simple as that.

yes i agree with you, just to say sorry and to move on from this matter (continue to spying business indeed include) is a wise move that the Australian PM can't do even a simple task, even Obama the leader of Super Power country has giving him an genuine example to handle this matter smoothly, his pride and dignity prevent him to do that as his slogan says let's the adults handle this

As a western countries to spying and tapping the First lady of friendly Nation private mobile phone maybe just one of their habit, i can't wait to see what happened next

 

[Nike]

sorry in Bahasa, Indonesia decided to ban import of beef from Australia amid spying scandal row, Indonesia decide to import from another countries maybe from Brazil and some of Latin American countries
Mendag: Indonesia Boikot Impor Sapi Australia
Kamis, 21 November 201310:23 am
Penulis Wandi
Dipublish oleh Roma Mustakim
Jakarta, InfoPublik - Lantaran aksi penyadapan yang dilakukan oleh Australia, pemerintah Indonesia berencana melakukan boikot barang-barang dari Australia, termasuk sapi impor. Oleh karena itu, pemerintah harus mencari negara alternatif lainnya untuk impor sapi.

Menteri Perdagangan, Gita Wirjawan mendukung penuh (zona base) dan mengubah undang-undang country base untuk mendatang sapi impor selain dari Australia dan Selandia Baru.

"Saya sangat mendukung (zona base) untuk mengubah undang-undang peternakan yang ada sekarang, agar kita tidak terbatasi dalam arti kita bisa mendatangkan produk apapun dan dari manapun selama itu sehat," ujarnya usai menghadiri Opening Crafina di JCC, Jakarta, Rabu (20/11).

Gita menambahkan, sebetulnya peluang Indonesia untuk mendapatkan pasokan daging dari negara lain masih ada. Bahkan, harga yang lebih murah dengan kualitas yang sama baiknya masih mungkin didapatkan.

"Ini jadi upaya untuk melakukan revisi terhadap undang-undang, karena saya tahu apakah itu sapi atau produk-produk peternakan dari tempat lainnya itu jauh lebih murah. Dan mereka juga bisa membuktikan bahwa mereka itu juga bebas dari penyakit," katanya.

Meski demikian, dia mengungkapkan kestabilan harga daging sapi juga harus dijaga, sehingga jika memang impor dari Australia di stop, tidak terjadi gejolak pada harga daging sapi.

"Ini juga harus diseimbangkan untuk stabilitas harga. Jangan sampai nanti reaksinya kita tidak bisa menjaga stabilitas harga. Ini penting sekali untuk mendatangkan dari mana pun selama itu sehat," tukas dia.

Mendag: Indonesia Boikot Impor Sapi Australia

 

[Nike]

Levichev (leader of Russian Parliament) and a number of members of Russian parliament have been in Jakarta since Wednesday.

House deputy speaker Priyo Budi Santoso, after receiving the Russian guests at his office on Thursday, said their Russian counterparts were there to discuss the ongoing bilateral spat between Jakarta and Canberra over the snooping debacle.

After the meeting, Levichev told journalists via an interpreter that Russia had denounced the alleged wiretapping by the US and Australia. “It is shameful that the wiretapping was done to the leader of a friendly nation instead of terrorists,” he said, as quoted on the House’s official website dpr.go.id. He added that the tapping not only violated diplomatic protocol, but also violated human rights.

“We have heard a lot of calls from the US for the world to uphold human rights and practice good diplomatic relations,” he said. “But then they committed actions that contradicted their own preaching.”

Lawmakers to meet with Edward Snowden | The Jakarta Post

 

[Nike]

Lawmakers to revise law
limiting livestock imports

Anggi M. Lubis, The Jakarta Post, Jakarta | Headlines | Thu, October 10 2013, 10:10 AM

Lawmakers have begun deliberating a revision to the 2009 Animal Husbandry Law to access alternative sources of livestock imports and help reduce monopolistic practices in the sector.

Currently, livestock imports should only be from countries that have secured disease-free status from the World Organization for Animal Health, known by its French abbreviation OIE.

With the revision, importers would be able to import livestock from zones that have received disease-free clearance regardless of the hygiene status of the country as a whole.

Agriculture Minister Suswono said the revision was crucial to improving the country’s food security. He said it would also help minimize potentially monopolistic practices by importers and livestock exporting countries, citing Indonesia’s heavy reliance on imports of cattle from Australia.

“There is always the possibility that exporting countries, for their own benefit, could halt exports of productive female cattle to prevent us attaining beef self-sufficiency. This way, we would have to keep bringing in beef from their countries,” he told reporters on Wednesday after a meeting with House of Representatives’ Commission IV overseeing agriculture to discuss the revision.

By revising the law, he said the ministry would be able to access cattle imports from countries like Brazil and Japan in which zones have been declared disease-free. This would reduce Indonesia’s dependence on Australia in meeting the country’s annual beef demand of 500,000 tons.

Originally, the 2009 law allowed the import of livestock from either disease-free countries (country-based) or disease-free zones (zone-based). In 2010, however, the Constitutional Court annulled the zone-based stipulations at the request of farmers and veterinarians.

The annulment effectively leaves Indonesia with only one choice: to import livestock from countries that have been declared “safe”.

The veterinarian associations argued that the provisions in the law violated the 1945 Constitution. They said that the policy of allowing imports from disease-free zones, as opposed to countries, could harm consumers and local production because of the possibility of diseases from neighboring unsafe zones within the exporting country that might infect the “safe” zones.

Commission deputy chairman Herman Khaeron said that the revision — which is expected to be concluded by year-end — would curb monopoly practices and was not intended to challenge the court ruling.

To avoid violating the court ruling, Herman said the lawmakers would be cautious in drafting the revision and would not include the problematic “zone-based” phrases. Primarily, the revision will allow Indonesia to import from any safe zone worldwide.

“The main point is that livestock entering the country is productive and healthy,” he explained.

Agriculture Ministry quarantine agency chief Banun Sri Harpini said that to ensure that animals entering the country were free from disease, the ministry would prepare stronger quarantine steps, including pre-shipment quarantine in the countries of origin, to monitor imports.

The ministry was also deliberating whether to establish a “quarantine island” to hold animal imports for inspection before entering the Indonesian market, she said.

Teguh Boediyana, chairman of the Cattle and Buffalo Breeders Association, which backed the 2010 court ruling, said the House’s careful drafting would not amend the fact that the revision contravened the court’s ruling.

Lawmakers to revise law limiting livestock imports | The Jakarta Post

 

[xdrive]

I don't think you know the game dude~
It's no spying that matter, it is how you play the game once you get caught.

Here is how the game is played:
1. Everyone spies on each other.
2. Oops! We caught them spying on us!
3. Did we have something to gain or lose from that?
Scenario 1: Nothing to gain, a lot to lose, better be quiet and discreet otherwise we might damage the relation we have -> Australia in 2004
Scenario 2: Yes! Jackpot time! Better press hard to gain advantage as much as we can get -> Indonesia in 2013

To continue playing scenario 2, the one get caught must:
4. "We don't comment on intelligence matter, but we can make sure it is not happening now." -> Obama 2013
5. Better call the president/PM in person -> Obama 2013
6. Everything return to normal and spying continues.

Obama played it well, Tony Abbot didn't and made thing worse. Just as simple as that.

Except Indonesia is gaining nothing from suspending these ties and going over the top. The only thing they gain is short term political points for their election while in the long term they will lose out.

It's a massive mistake to apologize for something that 1. will continue 2. that everyone does and will continue to do. Obama made a mistake. Australia isn't the U.S, we make up our own stances.

Indonesia is over reacting and will continue to do so while they are scoring political points with the Indonesian public for the election.

Lawmakers to revise law
limiting livestock imports

So Indonesia is going to limit livestock imports in an attempt to hurt Australia but it will only infact hurt Indonesians because beef prices will rise.

The lengths the Indonesian government is taking this to score political points for their elections grows every day, it's amazing.

It's short term gain, for long term pain. A major mistake by Indonesia.

 

[nufix]

So Indonesia is going to limit livestock imports in an attempt to hurt Australia but it will only infact hurt Indonesians because beef prices will rise.

The lengths the Indonesian government is taking this to score political points for their elections grows every day, it's amazing.

It's short term gain, for long term pain. A major mistake by Indonesia.

great mistake is actually just made by you

For 1-3 months yes, beef prices will be skyrocketing, but do you think Australia is the only one source for beef? Indonesia is importing beef from Australia mainly because Australia offered many easiness which other country didn't, but Australia is the only source? No.

But surely the good northern cow breeders will be hurt, in the long term, they will miss a chance to sell their beef to 249 million peope next to their door. Indonesia? well, we heard that new zealand sells cows too.

“We decided to halt talks on cattle ranches in Australia temporarily until the Australian government fulfills what the Indonesian government insists they do,” RNI Chief Executive Ismed Hasan Putro told Reuters. “This is very important to build out mutual trust, respect and equality in the future.”

Putro, who declined to name the Australian companies, said RNI had already started talks with a New Zealand firm as an alternative candidate.

Indonesia, Australia Spy Claim Tension Spreads to Beef Imports - The Jakarta Globe

Except Indonesia is gaining nothing from suspending these ties and going over the top. The only thing they gain is short term political points for their election while in the long term they will lose out.

It's a massive mistake to apologize for something that 1. will continue 2. that everyone does and will continue to do. Obama made a mistake. Australia isn't the U.S, we make up our own stances.

Indonesia is over reacting and will continue to do so while they are scoring political points with the Indonesian public for the election.

when refusing to admit your mistakes becomes a "stance" for you, how can you call a protest towards a mistake an overreaction?

 

[xdrive]

While overreacting about Australia spying and going over the top about it, Indonesia is continuing and ramping up it's spying of Australia not afraid to be seen as hypocritical.



Indonesia boost spy gear

INDONESIA has moved to beef up its own spying apparatus in response to revelations that Australia tapped the phone of its president.

As the fallout over the spy row continues to widen, Indonesian foreign minister Marty Natalegawa confirmed that all cooperation on people smuggling — from police information sharing to search and rescue — had now halted.

A presidential decree issued on Friday means that the intelligence chiefs the country’s police, military, Attorney-General’s department, and all other public sector departments will be drawn together and meet regularly under the authority of the State Intelligence Agency to coordinate their resources.

The new body, to be called the Central Intelligence Committee, is a direct response by President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono to his shock and sense of betrayal that Australian intelligence services were able to bug his phone and that of his wife and inner circle in 2009.

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“BIN has been positioned as the coordinator of [all] state intelligence agencies and [the committee] will be headed by the BIN chief,” the decree says.

According to the Jakarta Globe newspaper, the chairman of BIN, Lt. Gen. Marciano Norman, has told his agents that foreign spies operating on Indonesian soil are his priority targets.

General Marciano will also boost the capacity of the intelligence service to gather information and protect Indonesia’s own secrets, the newspaper reported.

The country’s former spy chief, Abdullah Mahmud Hendropriyono, told Fairfax Media during the week that Indonesia had both intelligence and counter-intelligence capability and that “black intelligence” collection was standard operating procedure.

However, he also said that leaks that exposed a country’s weakness were often used by intelligence agencies to beef up their own resources. That principle appears to apply in Jakarta in the wake of the Snowden revelations.

BIN has thousands of employees working in both internal and external security, but in Indonesia traditionally, the internal security function has been more important because of the danger posed by separatist and radical movements.

A senior cattle industry source said if the row continued, he was worried that it may affect the 2014 quotas for live exports from Australia to Indonesia. The source, who did not want to be named, said those quotas would be announced in the next two to three weeks.

Australia’s live cattle trade is only now beginning to recover from Australia’s 2011 suspension of the trade, followed by Indonesia’s ill-thought through self-sufficiency policy.

Indonesian trade minister Gita Wirjawan has already announced he wants to throw the country open to beef imports from countries such as Brazil and India, which, though blighted with foot and mouth disease, maintain some export zones they say are free of it.

In Bali, the police chief and the head of the country’s tourism board moved to assure tourists that they were safe to visit despite widespread anger and protests and flag burning outside the Australian embassy in Jakarta.

“The spying will not affect people-to-people contact between Indonesians and Australians,” the head of the tourism board I Gede Pitana Brahmanda said.

“So Australians should not be worried about holidaying in Indonesia.”


Read more: Indonesia boost spy gear

when refusing to admit your mistakes becomes a "stance" for you, how can you call a protest towards a mistake an overreaction?

But a mistake hasn't been made. That's the concept you are others in this thread can't understand.

Spying and gathering information IS NOT a mistake. Every single country in the world spies and gathers information from other countries and every single government knows it and it acknowledges it.

It's not simply a "mistake" It's just a normal procedure. Indonesia is spying on Australia right now, that's not a mistake and the Australian government has never kicked up a fuss about it nor asked Indonesia to call it a "mistake" and say "sorry" because it's a normal thing to do.

This is what you all arent getting.

 

[xdrive]

Indonesian media taking it to a whole new level.

Publishing cartoons of the Australian Prime Minister masturbating.

Australia's reputation in Indonesia hits new low

 

[Viet]

the affair becomes ugly.

 

[nufix]

While overreacting about Australia spying and going over the top about it, Indonesia is continuing and ramping up it's spying of Australia not afraid to be seen as hypocritical.

But a mistake hasn't been made. That's the concept you are others in this thread can't understand.

Spying and gathering information IS NOT a mistake. Every single country in the world spies and gathers information from other countries and every single government knows it and it acknowledges it.

It's not simply a "mistake" It's just a normal procedure. Indonesia is spying on Australia right now, that's not a mistake and the Australian government has never kicked up a fuss about it nor asked Indonesia to call it a "mistake" and say "sorry" because it's a normal thing to do.

This is what you all arent getting.

I am personally agree with you, spying is not a mistake when it is being done privately without public aknowledge. It becomes a mistake when you are caught snooping around though.

Do you think Indonesian government will believe what Australia say if Abbot says "sorry" and "we won't do it again"? I assure you that the answer is no, because we know spying on each other can't be stopped, the indonesian government only need that "sorry" word for assurance to its own people which is now in outrage.

Indonesian media taking it to a whole new level.

Publishing cartoons of the Australian Prime Minister masturbating.

Australia's reputation in Indonesia hits new low

well, at least it is published by a media, not a man with certain political power like Textor. Our media is crazy about publishing innapropriate critic cartoons.