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Australia Is Giving Up on Its Tiger Gunships, Which Have Never Seen Combat

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Australia bought its Tiger ARH attack helicopters only eight years ago, and now it wants to scrap all 22 of them. Even more embarrassing, the Tiger has still not yet achieved “final operational capability” — meaning the helicopter never fully became ready for combat.

The decision to ditch the Tiger — to occur in the 2020s — landed with a thud with the release of Australia’s 2016 defense white paper, which laid out the country’s military strategy over the coming decades. The plan includes U.S. $21.5 billion in new spending, which would pay for new submarines, frigates, patrol vessels, aircraft and drones among many other big-ticket items.

But not the Tiger.

In 2004, Australia received its first Tiger, a nimble gunship produced by Eurocopter — now part of Airbus — to serve in light-attack and reconnaissance roles. The Tiger is roughly equivalent to the U.S.-made AH-64 Apache except lighter and with longer range. It can fire Hellfire missiles, 70-millimeter Hydra rockets and 30-millimeter cannon shells. On-board Stinger missiles serve as the anti-air weapon.

The Tiger “was modeled very much along the Apache model, but using later airframe technology, and with different role optimizations,” analyst Carlo Kopp of the Air Power Australia think tank wrote in 2009.

Above — an Australian Tiger ARH in February 2015. Bidgee/Wikimedia photo. At top — an Australian Tiger during Exercise Talisman Sabre 2011. U.S. Air Force photo
Yet Australia’s Tiger has never seen combat, despite $2 billion in costs to buy them and Canberra’s troops fighting heavily in Afghanistan for more than a decade. (Today, Australia has 400 troops there in an advisory role.) Keeping the Tiger at home was also an awkward decision, as German, French and Spanish Tiger variants deployed to Afghanistan at different times.

Not that Australia had much of a choice. There were delays with the helicopter’s software. Parts must be shipped to Europe for repair, a time-consuming and expensive process. Worst of all, the air conditioning units and power capacitors broke down and filled cockpits with toxic, black smoke.

During one incident, “the window was jammed shut after not being checked during pre-flight inspections so the crew was forced to take the risky step of blowing the canopy off to ventilate the cockpit,” the Australian reported in 2012.

Trust in the aircraft deteriorated so much, that pilots effectively mutinied in 2012 by refusing to fly. “Usually you have to fight to stop military pilots from flying,” a defense source told the newspaper.

Canberra wants to replace the Tiger with a lighter helicopter for commandos that can fit inside a C-17 transport plane — along the lines of the American MH-6 Little Bird. Plus more CH-47 Chinook transport birds for heavier lifting.

It makes sense. Delays and mechanical miseries aside, the deeper problem is that the Tiger was never really a good fit for Australia in the 21st century. The gunship was originally designed in the 1980s for a European battlefield — hence the similarities to the Apache, the multi-role abilities and the anti-tank weapons. Canberra would now rather prepare for more unconventional wars and to counter Chinese sea power.

Perhaps most importantly of all, Canberra wants to grow its military spending without blowing its budget. In a 2015 interview with the Australian Broadcasting Corporation, defense analyst Andrew Davies noted the Tiger came about as a way to reduce the number of helicopters in service, and thus save money.

“And in fact, nothing of the sort has happened,” Davies said. “We’ve spent billions of dollars, lost many years of capability because the helicopters weren’t as mature as we thought.”
Australia Is Giving Up on Its Tiger Gunships, Which Have Never Seen Combat | War Is Boring

So, Pakistan took correct decision and didn't pursue Tiger.
 
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why did they chose the Tiger over the proven Apache o_O

I find it funny that they should of picked the Leopard 2 over the M1 Abrams

and the Apache over the Tiger.
the Mi-24 Superhind Mk V would have been even better

 
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Well Australia should invest in a customized version of the Chinook with gunship capabilities. Something along the lines of Mi-35. But they are looking for something smaller
 
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or even the Rooivalk


You make that sound as if the Rooivalk is sort of a poor man's last choice. (I'ld take that over a South African developed Super Hind any day ;-)

what a waste of money man govs sucks
Sell them and recoup some cost.

The 2016 Australian Defence White Paper stated that the Tiger helicopters will be replaced with other armed reconnaissance aircraft in the mid 2020s.

If they are now 8 years old, by 'mid 2020', they'ld be about in the middle of their service life (17 years), at the time when they would need an MLU. So, essentially, the Ozzies are saving on the MLU and at that point will find some third party buyer or sell them back to the producer. And mind you, 'mid 2020' might also end up being 2028 (or - if these machines remain troubled - being 2023).

Did the European users experience any similar troubles ?
 
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Not the first time I suppose.

Helicopter deal: India's jinxed Westland saga - Rediff.com India News

India’s dealings with Westland Helicopters, before it merged in March 1999 with Italy’s Finmeccanica subsidiary to become AgustaWestland, were technically problematical and politically questionable.

Under a dubious deal in 1985, then Prime Minister Rajiv Gandhi, contrary to expert advice and under pressure from his British counterpart, Margaret Thatcher agreed to buy 21 Westland-30 civilian helicopters for 65 million pounds under a UK grant-in-aid scheme.

Amazingly, only 41 Westland-30’s, a civilian derivative of the Lynx military helicopter were produced before their assembly line at Yeovil in southwest England closed down in 1990-91 as the platforms proved to be technically unsound.

In India and the US -- where merely 11 were in service -- they were grounded around 1991 within a short span of being inducted into service, eventually ending up in UKs Helicopter Museum in Somerset where the Westland-30 remains on display.

Conversely, almost three decades later India’s Westland-30 fleet lies rotting in crates in Mumbai after the deal to sell them as scrap to a UK-based aviation company too collapsed in a further embarrassment to the beleaguered Congress party that acquired the dud machines.

The Westland-30 saga began in the mid 1980s after Thatcher, eager to prop up the financially ailing Westland then taken over by the global engineering conglomerate GKN, ‘persuaded’ Gandhi to acquire 21 of them under a British developmental aid programme.

Initially reluctant to acquiesce, Gandhi was promptly persuaded after Thatcher unsubtly warned the Indian PM that further economic aid could prove ‘problematic’ if the Westland-30 deal was declined.

Thatcher’s fait accompli temporarily bailed out Westland financially.

But months later her Conservative government was besieged by a furious scandal involving Westland which badly damaged her political standing in Europe and led eventually to British Defence Secretary Michael Haseltine’s resignation.

For India problems with the Westland-30’s began soon after their induction in 1986 into Pawan Hans which assigned them to fly from Mumbai to offshore oil rigs and to ferry Hindu pilgrims to the Vaishno Devi shrine from Jammu.

Two Westland-30s crashed in 1988 and 1989 in Jammu and Nagaland killing 10 people and the troubled fleet was grounded soon after following endless wrangling over their obvious design flaws.

In their four years of erratic service in India the Westland-30’s posted a 5.6 million pound loss, officials said.

Aviation experts concur that the helicopter-originally named WG-30 Super Lynx before becoming the Westland-30-was technically unsound but the newly elected and confident Rajiv Gandhi rebuffed all counsel advising against its acquisition purely for political considerations.


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For ppl banging LCA or any other developing countries product should understand how hard it is create a system from scratch. Blind enthu for western system has its pitfalls.
 
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You make that sound as if the Rooivalk is sort of a poor man's last choice. (I'ld take that over a South African developed Super Hind any day ;-)


Sell them and recoup some cost.

The 2016 Australian Defence White Paper stated that the Tiger helicopters will be replaced with other armed reconnaissance aircraft in the mid 2020s.

If they are now 8 years old, by 'mid 2020', they'ld be about in the middle of their service life (17 years), at the time when they would need an MLU. So, essentially, the Ozzies are saving on the MLU and at that point will find some third party buyer or sell them back to the producer. And mind you, 'mid 2020' might also end up being 2028 (or - if these machines remain troubled - being 2023).

Did the European users experience any similar troubles ?

meh I don't mean it like that. Rooivalk just doesn't have the experience as other attack helicopters.

in reality Rooivalk might be the most expensive attack helicopter in the world.
 
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meh I don't mean it like that. Rooivalk just doesn't have the experience as other attack helicopters.

in reality Rooivalk might be the most expensive attack helicopter in the world.

Rooivalk wasn't mass produced, only 12 were made in span of 17 years. Since 1991 there are over 200 Tiger's... 16-17 per year... Rooivalk is comparable to Tiger HAD... Tiger HAD costs over 40 million USD despite being mass produced.

It is logical to expect that Rooivalk will be much cheaper since South African work costs half as much and most if not all components are produced in South Africa so in theory Tiger HAD would be like below 30 million USD...
 
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Atlas Aircraft (Denel) XTP1 Beta, a Puma based gunship used in the Rooivalk project, later as stand-alone upgrade programme

v3batlasxtp1.jpg


e9058731dfc162b63782d143bbe6143a.jpg
 
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The back story of Australian acquiring the ARH (not technically Eurocopter Tiger) Tiger is to replace Australian Army OH-58D and combine them with Aussie Huey Gunship.

Apache was considered and deemed not suitable for its sizes and it's role, and original plan for Australian Army is to implement different off the shelf technology into its ARH and that is what Boeing refused to do, so they go with Eurocopter Tiger.

What they (The Australian Army) want is a stealth and sleek airframe which would loaded up with American Designator (Hence the ability to fire Hellfire) and Belgium Weaponry Package, yet they were to perform virtually the same job as what Long Bow is to do today.

Alternatively, the Australian Army wanted to put its tiger stock and maintain it locally, however, the Brisbane plant (which is JV with eurocopter) can only managed to do minor touch up work and all major and essential job have to send back to Eurocopter in France to do them there.

Essentially what the Australian wanted is the Long Bow package, but they don't want them all from America, and they wanted to upgrade the copter bits by bits and it failed spectacularly. End of Story...
 
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