What's new

At least 75 killed in bomb blast at Quetta Hospital

I've been researching historical situations that could be useful analogies to Pakistan's predicament. An interesting one is the American Civil War.

In my analysis of the ACW, social pressures coupled with restrictions on free speech and fear of economic stagnation resulted in an upward spiral of competitive militancy among Southern politicians that eventually split the South from the North. The South was eventually defeated, but why was there no guerrilla war afterwards?

Well, the answer is that there was. President Lincoln was shot by a terrorist in the last days of the war. While the Confederate armies surrendered and most of the officers and men returned to their homes to resume normal economic life under the generous surrender terms, some did not, both out of conviction and from foreign support.

Less than six weeks after the Confederate surrender, Major-General Sheridan was at the Mexican border, for the Confederacy had been receiving arms from the French-supported Austrian "Mexican emperor" Maximilian. Sheridan had to discourage the wavering, insincere ex-Confederate Texan and Louisianan soldiers and prevent the efforts of the French to covertly supply them with weapons meant to reignite the rebellion. As military governor, he intervened in the backsliding civilian Louisiana government, removing corrupt leaders who refused to enforce the laws of the United States, which had resulted in a terrified citizenry. And while Sheridan was forbidden to cross into Mexico in force, secretly he supplied the Mexican republicans with arms. This had the effect of driving the French troops of Emperor Napoleon III out of the country. For Sheridan, the "war of rebellion" truly ended in 1870, when Prussian troops compelled his shadow enemy Napoleon III to surrender at Sedan - an event Sheridan witnessed in person as a military observer in the Prussian Army, representing the U.S.

However, ending foreign support was only part of the story - the most minor part. Other Union generals, specifically Major-General Sherman, foresaw that some of the old Confederate military leaders did not care about danger or cost to the population and might continue a guerilla. (Sherman was especially worried because before the Civil War most Northern politicians deliberately blinded themselves to the possibility of an armed conflict with the South.) One of those Sherman had in mind, Confederate General Nathan Bedford Forrest, established the Ku Kux Klan, an organization that terrorized blacks and infiltrated law enforcement in the South. In such an environment, capital investment was very limited, thus the areas where the KKK was strongest lagged behind the rest of the country economically as a result.

The influence of the KKK was very great, probably peaking in the 1930s. What happened to destroy the KKK network, then?

First, a growing revulsion of the KKK, both its goals and methods.
Second, active cultural push-back to undermine the KKK. Some white citizens gathered courage enough not just to vocally denounce the KKK but bodily protect prominent Negroes from harm.
Third, the KKK was then infiltrated and many of its secrets exposed and it was presented to the public as an enemy of freedom, rather than a protector of white citizenry. It was not the government that began this. It was Hollywood.
Finally, the growing civil rights movement and the court decisions of the 1950s and laws of the 1960s motivated the federal and state governments to investigate the KKK, reduce its influence, and convict its criminal elements in the courts. While the KKK organization remains today, its influence seems just about nil. There hasn't been an incident of mass white supremacist terror for over twenty years, and that was undertaken by an individual, not an organization.

So it seems unlikely to me that concentrating on RAW's influence, real or imagined, is going to be the decisive factor here. You have the advantage of knowing what happened to the U.S. and how it was dealt with. So with motivation and gumption you may be able to defeat in a few years what took American a century to accomplish. Good luck to you!
what can I say? God Bless America

many thanks for sharing this insightful narrative. indeed there are many parallels with ACW (by the way it is part of a subject taken by the candidates that sit in our superior civil services exams) .

your conclusion is exactly what I was saying to someone else that a permanent solution is within our own people, yes there are external entities and other opportunists that are adding fuel to the fire but a better counter narrative and unified stance is needed to combat the terror against the state and its citizens. something that can break the narrative of these terrorists who are able to influence people to join their ranks and continue to cause mayhem across the globe.
 
No, carrying out terror attacks is something your country is already doing in Pakistan. I'm rather suggesting an eye for an eye. If you think that we should let you walk after this cowardly attack you are gravely mistaken.
Any Proofs???
Because we always get proof and then get those organisation or terrorist banned..Do that first and then talk about it.
 
Any Proofs???
Because we always get proof and then get those organisation or terrorist banned..Do that first and then talk about it.

Proof has already been shared multiple times. The whole world knows that Indian consulates in Afghanistan are terror factories against Pakistan. These factories churn out suicide attackers. That is an open secret.
 
Proof has already been shared multiple times. The whole world knows that Indian consulates in Afghanistan are terror factories against Pakistan. These factories churn out suicide attackers. That is an open secret.
Then why did UN or US don't say anything to India about terrorism but always warns Pakistan about shutting there own terror factories?
 
If CPEC is pain in the @ss, Pakistan can start bigger projects that will be 'real' pain in the @ss.
I have some projects in mind that i will share on right platform.
 
...a better counter narrative and unified stance is needed to combat the terror against the state and its citizens.
The ACW analogy neither promotes nor disposes of a "unified stance". Indeed, Sheridan was forced out as military governor because the new president, in opposition to Congress and the likely last wishes of President Lincoln, decided upon a uniform policy of "back to normal" throughout the defeated South, which allowed many ex-Confederates to regain power and influence, though not sovereign independence. The development of anti-KKK sentiment therefore began as a deviancy from the established norm. Ideas must be allowed to flow and contest, you see. The motto of the United States isn't unum (unity) but e pluribus unum - "out of many, one."

...something that can break the narrative of these terrorists who are able to influence people to join their ranks and continue to cause mayhem across the globe.
The foundation of any government is a shared story - either real or myth.

The 1949 Objectives Resolution changed the direction of Pakistan's story from a land where Muslims, regardless of religious sect. could thrive without majority Hindu domination to a land "for Islam" - which destroyed the nascent democratic norms and opened the can of worms for the oppression of non-Muslims and the contest between sects for domination. The "for Islam" ideology was considerably strengthened after the defeat or rejection of other ideologies: constitutional monarchy (1956), parliamentary democracy (1958), imperialism (1965), the two-nation theory (1971), and socialism (1977). With the advent of Zia and the attendant restrictions on education, free speech, etc., an "upward spiral" of competitive militancy began, supported in part by non-Pakistanis.

It seems that the approach of Pakistani officials is to set policies to appeal to all Muslim sects, but that's in opposition to the will of some sects to defeat and dominate the others, as well as their desire to subjugate non-Muslims. Thus the current "shared myth" of the State is at odds with the desire of the State to maintain domestic order and is an irritant to other countries.

Change the myth - advocate and implement some sort of new deal - and that can change Pakistan's direction, at least for the new generation.

*

There are limits to how far one can push analogies, for not all situations are the same. Nor do different peoples necessarily respond to the same stimulus in the same way. I see two big cultural differences between Pakistanis and Americans: one, centuries of autocratic rule made the subcontinent poor soil for the growth of civic courage that the Americans and English common citizenry developed from the 17th to 19th centuries: Pakistanis accommodate themselves to authority - any authority, I've seen it can even be faulty equations in a math textbook -, rather than insist on freedoms to challenge and replace it. This was noted as a shared "Indian" quality by the British during their colonial period, and one of the reasons many British statesmen thought democracy in the subcontinent would fail. Pakistani civilian leaders may be aware of these characteristics, but seem to use the sociological and psychological knowledge they picked up in Western universities to dominate the populace, rather than educate and liberate them. No matter how they campaign, in practice the road of social responsibility, duty, and conscience followed by many Western politicians isn't taken by many in Pakistan's major political parties. Centralized control of the parties by their heads has something to do with it: the sense of individual responsibility of representatives for their decisions can be pushed onto the head of the leader.

Two, throughout its history Pakistani politicians have been extremely reluctant to compromise their individual purposes, apparently for fear of losing prestige, wealth, or influence. It is a failure of representative democracy. The usual solution is new elections, with a resulting change in party, or at least elected representatives. The parties of America's Founders yielded power gracefully after such defeats, as do American politicians today. Instead, Pakistan's politicians feared accountability to the people and - starting with Jinnah and emphasized by Mirza - sought to avoid elections or suppress democratic institutions to maintain their positions and prestige. After four generations it has become a habit: thus the military wields financial, judicial, and executive powers that more properly belong to elected leaders or appointed judges. Civilian authorities have much of the remaining powers - yet in the absence of mature checks and balances, top civilian officials can't be fully trusted with such powers, lest they try to abuse them to reach for dictatorship (as Nawaz Sharif demonstrated in 1999) or suppress effective government (as seen in B. Bhutto's first prime ministry.)
 
Not easy when the border is 1800km long

Not easy but it's time to show them we mean business the speed of the torkham gate is proof- It's very much possible 1800 km is nothing when the willpower is there.
We have the man power and military to back it up. I mean look at great the wall of china they built a wall to keep their enemies out and 1800 km is nothing compared to the length of that beast. If they could do it back then several hundred years ago then we should be able to easily do it with the modern construction technology we have today.
 
It's pretty obvious base of operations for these f**kers are in Kunar and Nuristan.

I have been calling for these areas to be razed for over 4 years. How much leverage does PA need to go ahead with a sortie campaign which will make shock and awe seem like a walk in the park?

I want Kunar and Nuristan obliterated so that each and every family member of TTP - their women and children included are bombed to pieces to avenge the 100+ children that died and all the other Pakistan deaths. Enough is enough. I want their total extinction and Pakistan won't be bothered again.
 
It's pretty obvious base of operations for these f**kers are in Kunar and Nuristan.

I have been calling for these areas to be razed for over 4 years. How much leverage does PA need to go ahead with a sortie campaign which will make shock and awe seem like a walk in the park?

I want Kunar and Nuristan obliterated so that each and every family member of TTP - their women and children included are bombed to pieces to avenge the 100+ children that died and all the other Pakistan deaths. Enough is enough. I want their total extinction and Pakistan won't be bothered again.
what did the family members do to deserve that?
 
what did the family members do to deserve that?

Its called consequences.

Clearly TTP don't care for their lives but they sure do care for their families. Introduce pure crystal retribution into the mix and watch them surrender within 2 weeks.

This should have been done atfter APS massacre. No other country would tolerate 100+ children being murdered so brutally.
 
@User

I hold the same view that you expressed up there and that others expressed.
I am a Jinnah fan way more than that of lawyers. And I agree that there is a
national mentality problem at play.
However there is also a debilitating geo-political environment on the outside.

This said, not all blame should be considered as local and unique. When Irfan
says, in a post that paralleled yours, that :

for example, it is my documented analysis that what he decries is actually true
in almost every modern democracy. The Far Right shift alone shows it at work.
Pakistan is not particular here, it's a universal woe.

The only reason why my post was a neutral appeal ( although the Again meant something )
is that as Irfan Baloch also pointed out, the perpetrators are deceitful plague.
I extolled courage precisely because it is the only thing clear and untainted here.

Sadly yours, Tay.

Tay,

Thank you for being there, standing with us in this time of grief and sorrow, really appreciate that.

I am sorry, my original post was out of frustration, the point where patience has run out, hopes dried, the moment when you really feel the insensitivity and incompetence surrounding you is unbearable, the stage where you can no more stand the liars being promoted and acting as saviors of the nation and country. I had no problem with your post (in fact I never can) I just referred to it and stated my views on a public forum for my countrymen. I thank you for that opportunity. Stay safe and blessed.
 
Let us understand that it is the job of the intelligence agencies of each & every country to ‘Spy’ on other countries. This serve two purposes. First one to know whether the country in question is neutral, friendly or hostile towards your country and secondly to seek out dis-enfranchised & rebellious groups to be used as the ‘Fifth column’ during hostilities and to destabilize during cold war situations.

Therefore if RAW, Mossad, CIA etc. were not doing this in Pakistan, they would not be doing their job. That is why there are counter intelligence agencies such as MI 5 & the FBI that deal primarily with the domestic security of the country and the counter espionage.

There have been even worse incidents in Quetta before this. People tend to forget but this old man has long memory. For example

July 4, 2003. A Hazara mosque was bombed during Friday prayers killing 50 with scores injured.

March 2, 2004. 60 died and about 180 injured when Ashura procession was bombed in Liaqat Bazaar Quetta.

Sept 3, 2010. 73 killed and 160 injured during a Shia procession marking solidarity with Palestinians on Al-Quds day.

January 10, 2013. There was a spate of bombings in Quetta with death toll (mostly Shia Hazara) was 130 with 270 injured.

June 30, 2013. 33 Hazara killed and over 70 injured when a suicide bomb exploded in a crowded area near Abu Talib mosque in Hazara Town.

Responsibility for nearly all of the above heinous acts was brazenly claimed by the LeJ & Al Qaida affiliated groups.

If we are serious about the peace & stability of Pakistan; without being emotional & abusing Mahmood Achakzai, let us look at what he is really saying. Without doubt his criticism was rather harsh; what you cannot deny is that all the successes of the Taliban/ISIS, LEJ etc. can only happen due to intelligence failure. One would have noticed that there was not a single criticism of his speech from the floor of the NA.

It is not enough to say that many possible bombing have been stopped thru the efforts of the security agencies, but that is why such agencies exist. You cannot be acclaimed for doing your job!

Without in any way lessening the severity of the current incident; pray tell me why there was far less hue & cry for the above incidents? Because most of those killed were Shia’s and therefore their blood is cheaper than those of the lawyers? When existence of terrorist cells was known in Quetta to all the world, why were they allowed to carry on killing Hazaras for the last 10 years without the agencies managing to stop it? One would be justified to presume that because some the groups were used by the same Agencies, sometimes they turned a blind eye.

I don’t agree with most of what Mahmud Achakzai has said in the NA session, but we simply cannot shrug of our shoulders and imply “ It is RAW or foreign sponsored hence we are helpless to stop it”.

Only good thing that may have come out of it is that people are openly questioning the sympathisers of the extremists. Qamruz Zaman Kaira correctly stated on the Kashif Abbassi program that many may condemn these barbarous acts but this is no more than ‘Lip service’ their heart still bleeds for the terrorists.

Let us ask ourselves as to how serious, we really are to stop shedding of innocent Pakistan blood? If we really are why the party leaders only talk but desist from implementing National Action plan.

Currently our relations with all our neighbours as well with the United States are at a low ebb. Wheres India has diplomatic relations with Israel but has good relations with all the Arab countries, Afghanistan and Iran despite his brutality on Kashmiri Mulsims?. Doesn't this show that our foreign policy is totally wrong? This is because as a nation we are confused. Significant section of the population wants to create a dark age Islamic Emirate and to hell with the state of Pakistan. It is this section of the society that is responsible for the anarchy in Pakistan.

While Kaira didn’t name these people, I have no such qualms. I have heard the chant of “ Sufi Mohammed aao, hum tumharey saath hain” from Jamaat Islami supporters. In addition to the JI leaders, I would say that such groups include Rana Sana Ullah of PML-N and most of the JUI cadre with Sami ul Haq in particular. Instead of taking any action against the terrorist madrasahs per nation action plan, donation of Rs 300-million to the nursery of Taliban indicates that despite his public denials Imran Khan still carries a torch for the Taliban. Greatest culprit is the PML-N gov’t who, despite open decalrations by the Lal Masjid mullah, has not dared to arrest him.

Another way of looking at it is that we are fighting a war of existence and must expect that extremist forces will occasionally find soft targets to take revenge. In that case we should all shut up and accept these deaths as collateral damage. ( Hasan Nisar's words, not mine)

I apologise that most of my posts are so long, but I am seeing my country being slowly destroyed, is there anything else an ordinary old man can do?
 
Last edited:
...the point where patience has run out, hopes dried, the moment when you really feel the insensitivity and incompetence surrounding you is unbearable,

I feel that way every morning and it rarely goes away before nighttime.
Being with family, friends and being alone in nature assuage it sometimes.
And I live in some of the most modern and valued places on Earth!!!
I blame humanity mostly, myself included ...

Hugs and peace out, my friend, Tay.
 
I apologise that most of my posts are so long, but I am seeing my country being slowly destroyed, is there anything else an ordinary old man can do?

At some point, one has to just sit back, relax, and watch, to let things be. After all, acceptance is the final stage of grieving.
 
Its called consequences.

Clearly TTP don't care for their lives but they sure do care for their families. Introduce pure crystal retribution into the mix and watch them surrender within 2 weeks.

This should have been done atfter APS massacre. No other country would tolerate 100+ children being murdered so brutally.

yeah..good idea.. Pakistan Army should go ahead and do just that.
 
Back
Top Bottom