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Assam violence death toll rises to 21, shoot-at-sight order issued

Looks like another riot engineered against the Muslims.

Hope the government manages to take action this time unlike the last time during the Gujarat riots.
 
Since you seem to be an expert in history, why then all Hindus in that area was targetted...I am sure not all Hindus were Zamindars there. The Hindus were murdered, converted and even temples desecrated by having cows slaughtered inside the temple premises by Muslims.

You seem to be an expert in misreading and misunderstanding things. Read my post carefully where I mentioned "In initial phase no hindu was harmed. But circumstances changed and it took an ugly turn". Never did I say that Mopillas never attacked Hindus, I only said that in initial stages no hindu was harmed. Either you seem to jump to a conclusion without proper understanding or try to put words in my mouth.:disagree:
 
Forget about Akbar. Why did I learn about a different map of Kashmir at the school and later came in for a rude shock?


Because that is what India actually claims and believes that its the rightful owner of that land but then we have other countries having a similar claim and occupying part of it which India should have tried retaking them back as the other side keeps trying the same.
 
Atrocities against lower castes can certainly be defined as discrimination , but not physical violence .There are hardly any example of upper castes mass murdering the lower castes on account of castes or lower castes getting into riot like situation in the urban upper caste dwellings .Among the upper castes the Brahmans had little any political power and most lived donation to the temples.

Caste wars: Bloody pages of Bihar's history | NDTV.com

Over 1000 people have been killed in just a span of 10-15 years and almost all the victims were of lower caste. So can't really say "Atrocities against lower castes can certainly be defined as discrimination , but not physical violence" as in modern history we can see good amount of blood spilled. There must have been similar cases in ancient or medieval times where the lower caste suffered but most probably wasn't reported or noted down. Can't really say that Brahmins had little political power as Brahmins were considered to be of highest echelon of caste. They had such respect that in certain parts of India all women belonging to other caste apart from Brahmin caste were even required to stay bare chested before Brahmins as a mark of respect.
 
My take is that with the total intellectual and political bankruptcy of the Communist left, there is a void, and liberals are not sufficient in number to fill that gap. Nor are they active enough politically to mobilize the masses.

On the present problem, I see it as another nail in the coffin of the Gandhi-Congress alternative to the Two Nation Theory, what might be termed the Unity in Diversity model. Now we have a situation where both models used for visualizing our future nation state have failed.

In India, we have to acknowledge the issue of each of us owning multiple identities. These are successive in nature, and once one identity is addressed, and its needs for recognition are met, we need to cope with the next.

Take the case of a man who is Hindu, Bengali and Dalit, and poor. His immediate, primary identification is likely to be Hindu, if that is felt to be threatened. Once that is protected, he stops using that identity unless he reverts to it in a moment of crisis. Until then, however, his next identity is Bengali, and his ethno-linguistic identity takes over. He is defensive about Biharis, for instance, or Oriyas, at the labouring classes level, or about Marwaris, perhaps Punjabis, at a business community level.

In the villages, however, he is not directly confronted with this challenge, so he shifts to his Dalit level, or his poor level, and he takes a stand whereby whichever identity faces the greatest threat is the identity on top.

In the city and in towns, he is directly confronted, but is wholly unable to cope with the challenge, and is prey to populist ethno-linguist demagogues like Mamata Bannerjee. It will take time to penetrate beyond that level.

Finally, when all else is done, he faces his dilemma on the gender front. Actually women face this dilemma earlier, as their gender identity is always the most threatened identity.

The point of this elaborate explanation is to convey my personal reading of the situation, that it is not a secular issue at all. It is an issue of our failure to cope with the identity demands of the tribes and of tribals. The failure in central India has led directly to the so-called Maoist problem, which is not a Maoist problem at all; it is a tribal problem, and the tribals are flocking to the Maoist cause simply because the apparatus of state has let them down. The failure in the north east has led to the development of a number of tiny rebellions, as a number of small tribes have taken to arms against being flooded by caste Hindus from the plains. The Naga and Mizo rebellions were the biggest of this kind, and that India has been able to bring them under control shows that solutions are possible.

The present troubles are plainsmen against tribals, not Muslims against Hindus or Animists or Christian. It is just that the communal composition of that area is far more Muslim than in other parts.

Having said that, clearly successive Congress governments in Assam have behaved in a criminally irresponsible manner by behaving with leniency towards unofficial migrants from Bangladesh, who have added to the older Bengali Muslim population. At this level, they were still operating at the level of religious identity, and were opposed at the ethno-linguistic level, Ahom versus Bengali, by the AAGSP and the AASU. When the anti-migration agitation broke out, the Congress was caught flat-footed and thought matters could be resolved by resolving the competition between religious identities. Naturally, they failed, since the Ahom had moved on. They have failed again, in failing to recognize and address the plainsman-tribal divide, and that is what is at the root of these problems today.

Has there been a failure of secular India?

No.

These are not problems related to religion, these are problems related to a wholly different thing, the question of the future of the tribes. Until we address the problems of the tribals, we cannot get a resolution of this clash.


Secularism in pure form is good. But what is practiced in India is pseudo-secularism counting on votebanks and compromising on secular values ( Gandhi - support for Khilafat, Rajiv - Shahbano case and opening of Babri Masjid for prayer to Hindus, Karunanidhi's nonsense against Ram but keeps mum against other religious gods, Indira promoting Bhindranwale and going against him later). So I feel this is nothing but failure of secularism in India. This is similar to the communism. Utopian communism is painted as good for common people. But the forms practiced by USSR, Cambodia etc. showcased the failure.
 
Because that is what India actually claims and believes that its the rightful owner of that land but then we have other countries having a similar claim and occupying part of it which India should have tried retaking them back as the other side keeps trying the same.


That is fine. Present the fact that it is the stated position but we do not control Akshai Shin or whatever is under Pakistan. La Bong mentioned that he read about it in his school books but in my case, it was not the situation.
 
Caste wars: Bloody pages of Bihar's history | NDTV.com

Over 1000 people have been killed in just a span of 10-15 years and almost all the victims were of lower caste. So can't really say "Atrocities against lower castes can certainly be defined as discrimination , but not physical violence" as in modern history we can see good amount of blood spilled. There must have been similar cases in ancient or medieval times where the lower caste suffered but most probably wasn't reported or noted down. Can't really say that Brahmins had little political power as Brahmins were considered to be of highest echelon of caste. They had such respect that in certain parts of India all women belonging to other caste apart from Brahmin caste were even required to stay bare chested before Brahmins as a mark of respect.

Those Brahmins are the Aryan or the followers of the Aryan!!!!!!
 
Secularism in pure form is good. But what is practiced in India is pseudo-secularism counting on votebanks and compromising on secular values ( Gandhi - support for Khilafat, Rajiv - Shahbano case and opening of Babri Masjid for prayer to Hindus, Karunanidhi's nonsense against Ram but keeps mum against other religious gods, Indira promoting Bhindranwale and going against him later). So I feel this is nothing but failure of secularism in India. This is similar to the communism. Utopian communism is painted as good for common people. But the forms practiced by USSR, Cambodia etc. showcased the failure.

I completely agree. The Congress is not secular; far from it. It is crypto-Islamic allied to crypto-Hindutva. That is why it manages to contradict itself in so many ways so often.

Self Deleted.

Huh!

Empty promises.

Those Brahmins are the Aryan or the followers of the Aryan!!!!!!

There is no race called Aryan. It is a language group.
 
My take is that with the total intellectual and political bankruptcy of the Communist left, there is a void, and liberals are not sufficient in number to fill that gap. Nor are they active enough politically to mobilize the masses.

On the present problem, I see it as another nail in the coffin of the Gandhi-Congress alternative to the Two Nation Theory, what might be termed the Unity in Diversity model. Now we have a situation where both models used for visualizing our future nation state have failed.

In India, we have to acknowledge the issue of each of us owning multiple identities. These are successive in nature, and once one identity is addressed, and its needs for recognition are met, we need to cope with the next.

Take the case of a man who is Hindu, Bengali and Dalit, and poor. His immediate, primary identification is likely to be Hindu, if that is felt to be threatened. Once that is protected, he stops using that identity unless he reverts to it in a moment of crisis. Until then, however, his next identity is Bengali, and his ethno-linguistic identity takes over. He is defensive about Biharis, for instance, or Oriyas, at the labouring classes level, or about Marwaris, perhaps Punjabis, at a business community level.

In the villages, however, he is not directly confronted with this challenge, so he shifts to his Dalit level, or his poor level, and he takes a stand whereby whichever identity faces the greatest threat is the identity on top.

In the city and in towns, he is directly confronted, but is wholly unable to cope with the challenge, and is prey to populist ethno-linguist demagogues like Mamata Bannerjee. It will take time to penetrate beyond that level.

Finally, when all else is done, he faces his dilemma on the gender front. Actually women face this dilemma earlier, as their gender identity is always the most threatened identity.

The point of this elaborate explanation is to convey my personal reading of the situation, that it is not a secular issue at all. It is an issue of our failure to cope with the identity demands of the tribes and of tribals. The failure in central India has led directly to the so-called Maoist problem, which is not a Maoist problem at all; it is a tribal problem, and the tribals are flocking to the Maoist cause simply because the apparatus of state has let them down. The failure in the north east has led to the development of a number of tiny rebellions, as a number of small tribes have taken to arms against being flooded by caste Hindus from the plains. The Naga and Mizo rebellions were the biggest of this kind, and that India has been able to bring them under control shows that solutions are possible.

The present troubles are plainsmen against tribals, not Muslims against Hindus or Animists or Christian. It is just that the communal composition of that area is far more Muslim than in other parts.

Having said that, clearly successive Congress governments in Assam have behaved in a criminally irresponsible manner by behaving with leniency towards unofficial migrants from Bangladesh, who have added to the older Bengali Muslim population. At this level, they were still operating at the level of religious identity, and were opposed at the ethno-linguistic level, Ahom versus Bengali, by the AAGSP and the AASU. When the anti-migration agitation broke out, the Congress was caught flat-footed and thought matters could be resolved by resolving the competition between religious identities. Naturally, they failed, since the Ahom had moved on. They have failed again, in failing to recognize and address the plainsman-tribal divide, and that is what is at the root of these problems today.

Has there been a failure of secular India?

No.

These are not problems related to religion, these are problems related to a wholly different thing, the question of the future of the tribes. Until we address the problems of the tribals, we cannot get a resolution of this clash.

Sir, that was a good summary of the problem we are facing. The Bodo movement claimed lives of many people. You must be aware during 80s many Assamese people were killed by them. Then in the 90s they killed the Santhals by thousands. Now this time its the muslims. The cause as I, a local see it is insecurity among the Bodos that they would be marginalised in their hard got Bodoland. They would make every effort to reduce the influence of any other ethnic group which emerge as potential political rival. You are correct to assume that this is not a religious riot.
 
AAPSU Cautions Arunachal Govt Against Bangladeshi Immigrants | Northeast Today

assam-riots.jpg


AAPSU Cautions Arunachal Govt Against Bangladeshi Immigrants

Expressing grave concern over the situation arising out of the clashes that has rocked the Bodoland Territorial Autonomous District Council (BTAD) in the neighbouring State of Assam, the All Arunachal Pradesh Students¡¯ Union (AAPSU) has cautioned Arunachal government to keep strict vigil and pull up its intelligence apparatus so that the spillover effect of the violence involving immigrants from the neighbouring country Bangladesh isnot witnessed in the State, as reported in various regional papers.
AAPSU said, ¡°It is unfortunate to know from various media publication, if it is to be believed, that somewhere the fall out of the violence in a way is due to the presence of unaccounted numbers of illegal immigrants from the neighbouring country of Bangladesh. As such, it cannot be considered as an isolated case affecting only the BTAD region.¡± It added, ¡°The whole of the country in general and northeastern States of the region in particular should view the situation seriously, keeping in mind the complexity of the problem, which could have far reaching consequences in the demographic set up andinternal security of the country.¡±
In this connection, State¡¯s apex students¡¯ body, AAPSU urged the State government to immediately instruct all the district administrations to carry out extensive Inner Line permit (ILP) drive in their respective jurisdiction to check and detect the presence of illegal immigrants. The Union also urged upon the government to take necessary stepsfor immediate renovation of the Arunachal Pradesh Public Service Commission office building that was damaged a few months ago by unidentified miscreants.
 
Sir, that was a good summary of the problem we are facing. The Bodo movement claimed lives of many people. You must be aware during 80s many Assamese people were killed by them. Then in the 90s they killed the Santhals by thousands. Now this time its the muslims. The cause as I, a local see it is insecurity among the Bodos that they would be marginalised in their hard got Bodoland. They would make every effort to reduce the influence of any other ethnic group which emerge as potential political rival. You are correct to assume that this is not a religious riot.

Can non-Bodos buy land in BTC. If no, I don't think Bodos have anything to worry about being marganalized.
 
Assam-riot.jpg


Situation has improved in Assam Says Gogoi, NHRC Seeks Report
The situation has improved in the communal violence-hit areas of Assam with the government planning to send all the displaced people to their homes by Aug 15, Chief Minister Tarun Gogoi said Wednesday. n”The situation has improved in the violence-affected areas. There has not been any major incident since July 25. We have also sent back 12,000 people to their homes from relief camps,” he told mediapersons in Dispur. As many 56 persons were killed after clashes broke out between Bodos and Bengali-speaking Muslims in Bodoland Territorial Areas District and Dhubri district between July19 to July 25.
Gogoi said all the people displaced by the violence would be sent to their homes with proper security by August 15. He also said security pickets would be set up in the affected areas. ”Police and security forces have identified 104 sensitive areas in the three districts. We have already set up 19 pickets and efforts are on to set up the remaining pickets,” said Gogoi. However, night curfew is still being imposed in the affected districts. According to government reports, the clashes affected over four lakh people in Kokrajhar, Chirang and Dhubri districts. Around 5,000 houses belonging to both the communities were burnt down.
The government then set up 278 relief campsto accommodate the displaced. According to reports, six of the 56 people were killed in conflict with security persons, 61 people were injured and 11 were missing till Tuesday. The army took out a flag march in the sensitive areas and there was police and paramilitary patrolling too, a home department statement had said Tuesday.
NHRC seeks report: The National Human Rights Commission (NHRC) has issued notice to the Assam chief secretary asking for a detailed report on the recent communal violence in the state. An NHRC spokesman said it would also send a team to study the arrangements made by the government for the rehabilitation of affected people. The team would submit a report in four weeks after visiting the violence-hit areas. NHRC has asked Assam to submit its report within threeweeks. It has also asked the chief secretary toinform about the arrangements made for relief and rehabilitation of the affected peopleand the financial assistance given to them. As many as 56 persons were killed in clashes that broke out between Bodos and Bengali-speaking Muslims in Bodoland Territorial Areas District and Dhubri district between July19 to July 25.

Situation has improved in Assam Says Gogoi, NHRC Seeks Report | Northeast Today
 
^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Assam government managed the situation fairly well. Now its time all the refugee should be sent back home with appropriate security measure. I am glad that Bengali did hold their ground and a turning point for NE states.
 
Well I know its off-topic but just wanted a view point of Bangladeshis present over here about this woman's statement.

PM says Bangladesh cannot help Rohingya - Central & South Asia - Al Jazeera English


I simply want to say I was appalled at the apathy of this woman who leads your country. I do understand you are overpopulated, your country's isn't economic power house but her attitude was just plain bad. I hate to say this but I would want to see her expression when the country she leads suffers a major catastrophe like floods and when she begs for help from foreign countries they should shrug her off saying "Hey look we are already in recession we can't help you, its not our responsibility". She also forgot that many Bangladeshis got asylum in UK itself during their own perils.
 
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