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Asim munier murda bad: skardu

Yeah I’ve seen your posts for a while. You do add a lot of knowledge and perspective to this discussion.

I try to mostly stay away from Pakistani internal affairs as they’re none of my damn business, mostly.

However, this subject and discussion- the military’s evolving role in Pakistani society - interests me from an intellectual standpoint, and I’m jumping in feet first :)

I don’t think that the strategy of going after generals or officers after they retire is a feasible one. It reeks too much of a witch hunt, plus no serving officer will support it, because they know it will be their turn to be thus targeted in a few years. It won’t happen.

What PA needs to understand- as a core principle and institutional memory (that is, systemic knowledge as opposed to just a few officers who get it) - is that the more the armed forces engages with the public, the less respect it gets. Period. And conversely the less PA comes out in the open, the more powerful it will get.

What’s the difference between the police and the army in today’s India? Why is the army respected (in most parts of the nation) and the police feared / hated / looked at with contempt everywhere? The answer is that one institution rarely interacts with the public, the other by nature is public facing.

In fact I’d argue that the typical class one police office in India (IPS or Indian Police Service) is far more educated, academically qualified and with a greater maturity than the army officer. But the IA officer is given huge natural respect and affection, while the IPS officer is feared and sometimes hated.

As soon as PA really gets this lesson and implements it by fading into the background, it will recover its preeminent position in Pakistani society. It just needs to get subtler.

Let the politicians, police and bureaucrats earn the abuses and gaalis. PA should bask in the background.

The other route - more and more public exposure and overt decision making - will make it worse for PA.

I’ll also say this - mark my words. The best thing for PA is that they allow IK to be PM, give him all the rope he wants.

I admire IK, but in six months in power everyone will be abusing him - because that’s what happens to politicians everywhere. In a year many Pakistanis will be saying that perhaps the PA wasnt as bad as they thought. This is how politics works, and PA is failing to understand the new ground realities.

For starters PA (the products of kakul) is an outsider. All the products are made that way. But now every commoner knows this well.(Thanks to social media). They very well know this. And that's what hurting their egos. They want to rule with iron fist as they consider themselves gods. And will go to every extent to do it. They have already broke up the country in 71 and now they have broken up financially. The things u mentioned applies to professional militaries not the khaki creatures. They are a different breed.
 
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Repeated trolling and flame-baiting
Being sentient and having some degree of intelligence does allow one to absorb new information, evolve and change.

I can only speak for myself. I genuinely believed the Fauj was removing itself from poitics and the PTI winning the 2018 elections was another sign of the same, especially after 2 successive PPP and PMLN governments post Musharraf.

Yes, many of us still believed there was rigging in the 2018 elections that reduced the PTI’s overall strength, but we were all so giddy with the thought of FINALLY breaking out of the vicious cycle of musical chairs of Military Coups, Sharifs and Zardaris, that we missed the Fauj’s continued political machinations and manipulation. We were just happy that a political party geuinely focussed on the middle and lower class was finally doing many things we had yearned for — universal healthcare, expanded safety nets for the poor etc etc.

And then, with the PTI’s ouster, harsh, cruel reality hit us in the face. And of course the house of cards kept falling as the Fauj, through its statements and actions, removed any semblance of being ‘neutral’, whilst loudly proclaiming to be just that.

Democracy is weak in Pakistan, run by a corrupt venal landowning and business elite because that is precisely what the Fauj wants, because such an elite can be controlled and manipulated.
Speechless.....1 woken up.... 234 million to go.
 
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That is the most troubling part of this situation. For a long time we assumed that the Army leadership always had the best interests of the country at heart and good intentions.

Unfortunately, its increasingly becoming clear that the Army leadership does not care about the country or citizens so long as they can maintain their hegemony and control.

Pervaiz Illahi essentially abducted today by the Fauj despite CLEAR orders from the Islamabad High Court for his release.

This is now basically undeclared Martial Law, and an extremely vicious and fascist one that is focused on retaining power at all costs - so outside of international sanctions and/or a massive uprising against the Fauj on the streets, I don’t see the Fauj changing course.

Couldn't agree more.

During my discussions i say that when an officer becomes a general, he becomes part of a new breed, and this new breed sheds its old skin which has patriotism in it, and the new general's skin only now cares about plots, houses, businesses of future, kids marriages in influential places, farm houses etc etc.

So this new breed is totally a new animal who will do anything to hold to its power.
 
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Couldn't agree more.

During my discussions i say that when an officer becomes a general, he becomes part of a new breed, and this new breed sheds its old skin which has patriotism in it, and the new general's skin only now cares about plots, houses, businesses of future, kids marriages in influential places, farm houses etc etc.

So this new breed is totally a new animal who will do anything to hold to its power.
Haram-khor, selfish and traitor breed
 
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The purpose of new bill was not to save Islam but to increase sectarian war & extremism. Hafiz General Munir did big mistake to pass these laws . Generations will pay the price of mistake. I fear more bloodshed in coming months & years.
 
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The purpose of new bill was not to save Islam but to increase sectarian war & extremism. Hafiz General Munir did big mistake to pass these laws . Generations will pay the price of mistake. I fear more bloodshed in coming months & years.

Blood in GB will mean breakup. And it's only a matter of time now.
That will definitely be followed up by Balochistan and Kpk.

Meanwhile fanboiz will be counting on China.
 
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Yes indeed true, negotiations were held between them as well but its outcome was stalemate. I know about the minutes of meeting first hand. Thing is fauj said they won't interfere with elections, PTI can come with 2/3 majority no issues just IK can't be the PM, He can handpick the person of his choice & he himself can be president. Army needs face saving infront of people, Public support is critical for every army in world they want to have some back. They took one step back. IK should've taken it in my personal opinion but he didn't & nothing wrong with that, It's his choice. Thing we all need to understand there's no idealism, We know our history , our deep flaws, Change takes decades. There were several options to play his own gameplay even after accepting this option but that didn't happen.
We do not accept this lanti army's demand. These haramkhors have destroyed our country.
 
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This is huge, a very large crowd. Gilgit Baltistan people are fiercely independent.

The PTI's Gilgit Baltistan govt. of CM Khalid Khursheed was removed by the political engineering, by the neutral duffers.

And that resulted in huge backlash. GB is a sensitive area and duffers shouldn't have done this.

But nobody can help them being d. duffers.

The treasonous Pakistani Military Generals are going to hand Gilgit Baltistan to India on a platter...

Murdabad!

It is high time PTI is declared as an anti-Pakistani terror organization.

This is nothing but brazen treason against the state.
Lol... Jahil.

Same fauj which rigged and brought PTI into power- but that is considered halal.
:-)

Correction: the same fauj that couldn't stop the PTI power and therefore "allowed" a limited role of PTI by engineering results (minority government) and sabotaged their tenure.
 
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With population already angry dye to inflation, myst take a team of Einsteins to come with idea of this bill..
 
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Same fauj which rigged and brought PTI into power- but that is considered halal.
:-)

Correction: the same fauj that couldn't stop the PTI power and therefore "allowed" a limited role of PTI by engineering results (minority government) and sabotaged their tenure.... It's all imploding anyways so curses upon the fauj.

Selective blaming on Army where suitable - blah lol

It's always suitable. In every situation... Now live with it.
 
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