Asim munier murda bad: skardu

[The Accountant]

I think you have a comprehension issue, not me. I didn’t defend Army, both parties are wrong. IK accepted help from Army to come in power, he didn’t become PM on own merit. What Army did, we know since we were born.

I gave a solution. You have any practical solution or just defending PTI like another fanboy ?


yeah guess who made IK’s seat higher.

No one made imran khan seat higher... it was reduced

 

[Signalian]

You keep deflecting.

I didn’t. I provided a solution though it needs working.

No one made imran khan seat higher... it was reduced

Army did along with ISI, can’t put names of course mates on duty and others

It is now well known that IK was not the first choice for PM, he was just to be made a boogyman to keep in line the others.

Army would be: seedhay hoo jaoo warnaa IK ajayee gaaa.

2018 elections first choice was Shahbaz Sharif but with the condition that his elder bro would be history, which he did not agreed thus reluctantly Bajwa traitor had to select IK but deliberately weakened him by changing results of seats which PTI was even winning without establishment help.

Khawaja Asif is on record saying Bajwa approached them in April 2019 to oust IK by first taking Punjab govt and then federal. This was exactly after the Indian strike after February 2019, when Bajwa realized that IK will not be towing the same line as establishment wanted and will go his own way, which we saw with February 2019 strikes which Bajwa never wanted and the closure of airspace for US drones to carry out strikes which army used to give permission very happily.

So IK was never first choice, he was just kept to make others agree to what establishment wanted.

Point being - army brought him in, whether he ranked 20th on the list.

 

[Peaceful Civilian]

There was no need to introduce new blasphemy laws. It will bring unrest & more violence.
Generals are making mistakes again by using the name of religion. Learn lesson from Syria & other countries.

 

[TheSolution]

Forget democracy.

Replace it with a new set-up that is run like a company, similar to how the Chinese do it. Based on proven credentials, qualifications and performance. Create a whole institutional body managing different sectors that you can continue to move up on.

At the top can be the president.

This probably wouldn't work though because they'd just turn into a corrupt feudal elite...

 

[Signalian]

Since when did calling for an end to the constitutional violations and treason by the Fauj in rigging elections and meddling in politics become equivalent to ‘defending PTI like a fanboy’?

since the way you judged me in post#86.

But isn’t the first time I’m judged by you. I have discussed another solution of going against army with another member sometime ago but just like you parrot the media here and set the trend, therefore discussing newer ideas has died. Wish lists have grown long as practical thinking has diminished

Forget democracy.

Replace it with a new set-up that is run like a company, similar to how the Chinese do it. Based on proven credentials, qualifications and performance. Create a whole institutional body managing different sectors that you can continue to move up on.

At the top can be the president.

This probably wouldn't work though because they'd just turn into a corrupt feudal elite...

Much of Pakistan’s interests are linked with Chinese investments.

Since when did calling for an end to the constitutional violations and treason by the Fauj in rigging elections and meddling in politics become equivalent to ‘defending PTI like a fanboy’?

Everyone here is calling for an end to the Fauj violating the constitution and allowing free and fair elections, but you continue to be disingenuous and refuse to address that and keep harping about the Fauj rigging the 2018 elections - yes, we all know the Fauj rigged those elections, hence the demand that it stop its fascist crackdown and STOP rigging elections.



@Tps43
IK publicly said that he was willing to move on and not exact revenge, he kept calling for negotiations with the Establishment - we all saw what the Fauj did instead.

The responsibility therefore lies with the Fauj to fix this and stop its fascist persecution of the PTI.

Nothing from your own brain apart from copy pasting Twitter and passing judgements.

I discussed a method that there is a way to go after retired generals, you have nothing to add ? Apna dimagh Nahi hay Kiya that you need to parrot social media. There are methods to stop breaking of constitution by army but you are not coming on that point so don’t accuse me of deflecting.

You don’t want to discuss ideas or solutions. All you have is reiteration from media. Nothing from your own brain.

 

[Signalian]

It is now well known that IK was not the first choice for PM, he was just to be made a boogyman to keep in line the others.

Army would be: seedhay hoo jaoo warnaa IK ajayee gaaa.

2018 elections first choice was Shahbaz Sharif but with the condition that his elder bro would be history, which he did not agreed thus reluctantly Bajwa traitor had to select IK but deliberately weakened him by changing results of seats which PTI was even winning without establishment help.

Khawaja Asif is on record saying Bajwa approached them in April 2019 to oust IK by first taking Punjab govt and then federal. This was exactly after the Indian strike after February 2019, when Bajwa realized that IK will not be towing the same line as establishment wanted and will go his own way, which we saw with February 2019 strikes which Bajwa never wanted and the closure of airspace for US drones to carry out strikes which army used to give permission very happily.

So IK was never first choice, he was just kept to make others agree to what establishment wanted.

U have any solution for going after army so breaking of constitution stops. Something effective in the long run but practical too ?

@M. Sarmad

Army always needed a popular leader. Army didn't bring IK but 2012 jalsa popularity makes him a public favourite. Now, army wanted to be on the right side of course. So, they just spread rumours that IK is their man and he is coming. In fact, they rigged and snatched some seats in 2018 elections.

ISI was working before that to bring IK in. Infact, before all this, ISI was on the path to “sort of” generate a bigger gathering for PTI jalsas, against other political parties.

Kaan left se pakro ya right se, Army did what it wanted.

 

[Signalian]

Since when did calling for an end to the constitutional violations and treason by the Fauj in rigging elections and meddling in politics become equivalent to ‘defending PTI like a fanboy’?

Everyone here is calling for an end to the Fauj violating the constitution and allowing free and fair elections, but you continue to be disingenuous and refuse to address that and keep harping about the Fauj rigging the 2018 elections - yes, we all know the Fauj rigged those elections, hence the demand that it stop its fascist crackdown and STOP rigging elections.



@Tps43
IK publicly said that he was willing to move on and not exact revenge, he kept calling for negotiations with the Establishment - we all saw what the Fauj did instead.

The responsibility therefore lies with the Fauj to fix this and stop its fascist persecution of the PTI.

IK isn’t an infant who lives in oblivion.

IK knew Army is bringing him in, he knew he needed army support and he got in bed with Bajwa and gave him extension. That makes IK partner in crime and thus punishable.

Wondering Who made this patwari consultant here on PDF ?

Burnt ? stay burnt.

 

[Signalian]

This current mess started in Oct 2021. IK was partial responsible to back on one guy too much & not letting go of his ego.
In my eyes Faiz Hameed is the guy to be hanged, that son of bun is ultimate piece.
That is what happens when non int guys parachute at 2 star slots with no exp of intel for a single day.
AM unlike QJB is smart. He has something concrete, 2024 is the year for that.
IK & PA should find a middle ground to get out of this mess, he has his fair share of mistakes but the good thing is he accepts unlike 2 other buffoons sitting in London

There are two lawyers on PDF that I know of, this thing can be directed towards something purposeful if lawyers joined hands with media journalists. The journalists came out too strong and were pointed out. Had they joined hands with lawyers, things might have started differently.
Issue stands that ISI is still the strongest entity so any step taken by lawyers or journalists or combined, will be countered and their ranks will be infiltrated or bought or division through Politics will occur. This net has to be kept intact at all steps. The targeting of retired generals will keep the serving ones in order since they need to retire too. On a larger scale, the lawyers need to come United as back in Musharraf era. The informer in from journos and the multiple cases through lawyers will keep the retired officers in a fear of incarceration. The next step is about intelligence and much more difficult to practically enforce by any public entity - IB or FIA getting more freedom vis a vis ISI. This is practically almost impossible.

 

[Signalian]

@Tamerlane
I think I was discussing something with you regarding civilian Vs military. Can’t remember that exact term we were discussing.

It is now well known that IK was not the first choice for PM, he was just to be made a boogyman to keep in line the others.

Army would be: seedhay hoo jaoo warnaa IK ajayee gaaa.

2018 elections first choice was Shahbaz Sharif but with the condition that his elder bro would be history, which he did not agreed thus reluctantly Bajwa traitor had to select IK but deliberately weakened him by changing results of seats which PTI was even winning without establishment help.

Khawaja Asif is on record saying Bajwa approached them in April 2019 to oust IK by first taking Punjab govt and then federal. This was exactly after the Indian strike after February 2019, when Bajwa realized that IK will not be towing the same line as establishment wanted and will go his own way, which we saw with February 2019 strikes which Bajwa never wanted and the closure of airspace for US drones to carry out strikes which army used to give permission very happily.

So IK was never first choice, he was just kept to make others agree to what establishment wanted.

I won’t deny that this didn’t occur, but I shared what I personally know, not media info.

If let’s say IK knew that his seats were being reduced, then why didn’t he speak up and made army interference unacceptable from the start but he accepted the seat and made besties with Bajwa. So no, IK isn’t innocent. IK is partner in crime.

And if it’s said that IK didn’t know Army was controlling his seats, then should such a baby become PM of Pakistan who doesn’t know what’s going on around him ?

 

[TigerOfMysore]

I didn’t. I provided a solution though it needs working.


Army did along with ISI, can’t put names of course mates on duty and others


Point being - army brought him in, whether he ranked 20th on the list.

@Signalian you keep saying they made his seat higher.

Though you are correct that they supported him coming to power (did not oppose him) - but what if I told you IK's power was trimmed not increased. Yes there were a few seats that would normally fall out of his support base where there was some careful manicuring (he was made to win) but in totality his seats were curtailed not increased. IK had around 15-20 seats at the MNA level that were pulled.

For example in Karachi his support base was reduced. He did much better in KHI than people were expecting. But the powers that be did not like that narrative and they wanted a stronger PPP win in Sindh. So they pulled some of seats. Such careful execution was seen in other areas well. Now we know why.

That makes sense; almost a sort of wounded tiger, not physically but ego wounded and lashing out.

Tigers are noble creatures!

 

[Signalian]

@Signalian you keep saying they made his seat higher.

Though you are correct that they supported him coming to power (did not oppose him) - but what if I told you IK's power was trimmed not increased. Yes there were a few seats that would normally fall out of his support base where there was some careful manicuring (he was made to win) but in totality his seats were curtailed not increased. IK had around 15-20 seats at the MNA level that were pulled.

For example in Karachi his support base was reduced. He did much better in KHI than people were expecting. But the powers that be did not like that narrative and they wanted a stronger PPP win in Sindh. So they pulled some of seats. Such careful execution was seen in other areas well. Now we know why.


Tigers are noble creatures!

Bhai i won’t refute this, like I said above but I shared what I know personally and the subsequent discussion.

 

[Signalian]

They?..what kidna bullshit is this


There are 20+ corps commanders
They need to grow a dick and do something about it

The chief doesn't has any power, the power comes from those corps commanders if majority aren't happy with it..the chief has to go..

Not the best solution. You won’t get anywhere through mutiny.

 

[TigerOfMysore]

Bhai i won’t refute this, like I said above but I shared what I know personally and the subsequent discussion.

Meri Jaan - I was (almost) on the front lines on that election. I know first hand what our "boys" were up to.
I have to give them credit the level of engineering is masterful. Trust me when I say they picked and chose jurisdictions. IF you were looking at it from one angle you'd see them "support" his win, and if that is all you saw you'd walk away thinking they fudged the numbers for his win. IF you saw it from another angle you'd see them pull back and you'd be convinced they reduced his numbers. Very few knew what the holistic and totality of the plan was. For that you needed to see the game play at a national level and very very very few people had access to that view. In the end when the calculus was done they pulled 15 to 20 of his seats on the National Assembly level. In the parliamentary side PTI was going to win hands-down Punjab/KPK and Balouchsitan. PPP's rigging system and patronage system is strong in Sindh and were always likely to win. What happened in Sindh was that IK blew MQM out and made some strong voter counts in-roads in internal Sindh (which shocked everyone). Both those elements were suppressed. His win in Urban centers on provincial levels were controlled and PPP was given a strong position in Sindh, otherwise they would have had a much weaker government in Sindh.

Not the best solution. You won’t get anywhere through mutiny.

Agreed - we cannot and should not see mutiny in Pak Army. That would be horrendous.
Only "God's" hand is the way.

 

[Signalian]

Meri Jaan - I was (almost) on the front lines on that election. I know first hand what our "boys" were up to.
I have to give them credit the level of engineering is masterful. Trust me when I say they picked and chose jurisdictions. IF you were looking at it from one angle you'd see them "support" his win, and if that is all you saw you'd walk away thinking they fudged the numbers for his win. IF you saw it from another angle you'd see them pull back and you'd be convinced they reduced his numbers. Very few knew what the holistic and totality of the plan was. For that you needed to see the game play at a national level and very very very few people had access to that view. In the end when the calculus was done they pulled 15 to 20 of his seats on the National Assembly level. In the parliamentary side PTI was going to win hands-down Punjab/KPK and Balouchsitan. PPP's rigging system and patronage system is strong in Sindh and were always likely to win. What happened in Sindh was that IK blew MQM out and made some strong voter counts in-roads in internal Sindh (which shocked everyone). Both those elements were suppressed. His win in Urban centers on provincial levels were controlled and PPP was given a strong position in Sindh, otherwise they would have had a much weaker government in Sindh.


Agreed - we cannot and should not see mutiny in Pak Army. That would be horrendous.
Only "God's" hand is the way.

Now that I read your post, Can you pour ur thoughts on my post 115, the questions and point I asked ?

Also what’s your solution that can practically be a step towards restraining army from playing with constitution ?

 

[Cash GK]

They are idoit think army brought him. They dont know he worked for 27 years on ground. He builded hospitals unis world cup. He was bigger then isi itself since he was 15. Banchood kuch be bakwass karnh shroo ker detey hain. Landy k arastooos.
From his 15 Pakistan loved him. He ispublic figure for 60 years. Is there any one who rulled in harts of people of Pakistan for 60 years. Landy k arastooos those who bron yesterday talking shit here. Go and read 70 80 90 2000 media. Banchoodoo

Is there any Pakistani batter educated and well manner and well accepted by world with this cv to be pm of Pakistan. He is confidence of nation. Look since his ouster. How nation lost the confidence.

Yes army did not oppose him like they're doing now Because he is real threat for them Against their corruption and lies since after they detained mohammad ali jinna in bulogistan in his last days. After killing of first pm and lady fatima jinna. Breaking country losing war.
So **** of lanndy ki arstooos