Asian Union -- Day Dream!!

[EjazR]

My post was asking you to acknowledge that India has one of the largest muslim communites because you insisted that Pakistan could form unions with only Islamic countries.

Besides, I mentioned the OIC because it has observer members like Russia and Thailand which have miniscule muslim populations. Besides, Saudi Arabia, Malaysia, Iran and Egypt all supported Indian membership. Don't you feel Indian muslims should be represented in this organization because they make atleast 15% of the total muslim population and belong to one of the largest economies in the world?

Anyways, I think we have discussed this enough. And there is no reason why a formation of union be given a religious tinge. Like I said you already have SAARC, its just amtter of moving forward on that.

Just an insight for you though. For muslims outside Pakistan, (and even many Pakistanis), Pakistan does not equate with Islam. Sure there may be many good muslims in Pakistan, but being against Pakistani policies is not being against Islam. I hope you understand that.

 

[Omar1984]

My post was asking you to acknowledge that India has one of the largest muslim communites because you insisted that Pakistan could form unions with only Islamic countries.

There are millions of Muslims also living in India, but more than 80% of India's population is HINDU, most dont care about religion and believe there should be separation of state and religion.
Muslims believe that there will be a Khalifa, Imam Mahdhi, that will unite Muslims and Muslim majority regions will all become one country. I doubt the 80% Hindu population in India will be willing to be part of the Islamic Union that will happen in the future lead by Imam Mahdhi.

Besides, I mentioned the OIC because it has observer members like Russia and Thailand which have miniscule muslim populations. Anyways, I think we have discussed this enough. And there is no reason why a formation of union be given a religious tinge. Like I said you already have SAARC, its just amtter of moving forward on that.

SAARC is pretty much a failure. None of the South Asian countries trust each other. SAARC has no value, no country benefited from SAARC so far.

Just an insight for you though. For muslims outside Pakistan, (and even many Pakistanis), Pakistan does not equate with Islam. Sure there may be many good muslims in Pakistan, but being against Pakistani policies is not being against Islam. I hope you understand that.

We dont claim to be perfect but Pakistan is the second largest Muslim country in the world and does have a voice in the Islamic world as does Indonesia, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Iran, etc..

Pakistan is the only country in the world to win its independence on the empoweing night of 27th Ramadan. Millions of Muslims sacraficed their lives for Pakistan in the holy month of Ramadan.

Why does that bother you? Because you are a "Muslim" living in a Hindu dominated country and you would rather side with Kuffar Hindus than your brothers and sisters in Islam?

 

[xebex]

This is what Ejaz said......

Well first of all the union is not joining the countries together. India is a strong democracy, China has no political rights and the rest of the countries are in between. The union (like the EU) is mostly to improve economic and cultural cooperation. It would be more beneficial to the smaller countries than bigger countries like India and China in the long term because they will get easier access to capital and bigger export markets. Just think about it, would'nt Pakistani businessmen make more money selling their leather jackets to neighbouring Indian or chinese market than all the way in EU or US?

And remeber whenever you refer to India, you also refer to 160-170 million muslims as well, and one of the few countries were muslims can follow and practice their religion with freedom.

Because of just having one of the largest muslim populations in the world, should'nt Pakistan acknowledge this and even support Indian to have member ship of OIC or other Islamic organisations or atleast have observer status.

By the way, we already have a economic union of sorts, its called the SAARC and hopefully its just the beginning. Not because it will benefit only India, but because it will help all South Asians.

P.S. Europe is not united in a single ideology either, they have divisions of orthodox, catholics and protestants. Remeber the IRA and mayhem there? There are strong diffrences between socialist, capitalist and ex-communist countries but they still work to gether for mutual benefit.

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^ By 2011, Pakistan's total population will also be much higher. Right now its 176 million people in Pakistan (More than 95% of that population is Muslim), but Pakistan doesn't want to be over-populated like India.

And read Ejaz's post, my post was a reply to his. He said Pakistan should support India into Islamic organizations

Now, India is not running after OIC for membership. If u noticed, he mentioned so because the sole reason they kept India(with 3rd largest muslim popu. country) away is because of Pakistans pressure on Kashmir.But other member countries like KSA support India's insertion.

Let me ask you what is the logic behind bringing in Pakistan's population? I mean nobody said India has more muslims than Pakistan, did they? NO!

Overpopulation is an issue that need to be considered seriously by Indian government, but thatz just one side of the coin. U only talked about cons of high population rate ;there is also a Pro side for high population rate which is somthing that brought India and China into the lime light of prosperity. Do u know, India has the largest younger people in the world more than that of the total population of US, they will be the workforce of India in the comming decades. China is losing its younger generation because of their one child policy and they already started steps to change that into two child policy in urban areas.Trust me on this.......India's energetic younger workforce will be the driving engine of our modern economy.

 

[xebex]

Muslims believe that there will be a Khalifa, Imam Mahdhi, that will unite Muslims and Muslim majority regions will all become one country. I doubt the 80% Hindu population in India will be willing to be part of the Islamic Union that will happen in the future lead by Imam Mahdhi.

Okey, I know where u r heading into. Remeber the thread is about Asian Union NOT Islamic Union.

"Its like asking who is Jesus Christ after reading the entire BIBLE"

 

[muse]

Think "customs union" - a market of approximately 2.5 billion, not in some far off place across in the world, but right here, among neighbors.

"Musa ba deen e Khud, Essa ba deen e khud" -- a "Customs Union" is market, no one needs to give up anything except their protection rackets, and even those do not have to be given up immediately.

 

[EjazR]

There are millions of Muslims also living in India, but more than 80% of India's population is HINDU, most dont care about religion and believe there should be separation of state and religion.

This is just your misunderstanding on your part. Indian muslims represent any muslim country where you may have "name only" muslims but there are many who have contributed to Islam enormously as well. Please open your eyes and you will see Nadwatul uloom, Dar-ul uloom deoband, Zakir Naik's Islamic Research Foundation, AIMMM, Tablighi Jamaat and a number of other positve contribution of Indian muslim society that shows how much they care about their religion.

Muslims believe that there will be a Khalifa, Imam Mahdhi, that will unite Muslims and Muslim majority regions will all become one country. I doubt the 80% Hindu population in India will be willing to be part of the Islamic Union that will happen in the future lead by Imam Mahdhi.
SAARC is pretty much a failure. None of the South Asian countries trust each other. SAARC has no value, no country benefited from SAARC so far.

We are talking about now, not the future. And thats why SAARC is the building point because it woudl benefit the smaller countries more. You never addressed any of the economic benefits that I keep mentioning. Don't you want the lives of the common people to improve?

We dont claim to be perfect but Pakistan is the second largest Muslim country in the world and does have a voice in the Islamic world as does Indonesia, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Iran, etc..

Pakistan is the only country in the world to win its independence on the empoweing night of 27th Ramadan. Millions of Muslims sacraficed their lives for Pakistan in the holy month of Ramadan.

Millions of Muslims Hindus and Sikhs died BECAUSE of the partition not FOR it. And sorry to burst your bubble but because the muslim day starts from Maghrib, and Pakistan's independance was at midnight 14 August, It was actually on the 26th of Ramadan while India got independace on the 27th. Get any calculator on the net and you will see that. Besides, this is not even part of the discussion here.

Why does that bother you? Because you are a "Muslim" living in a Hindu dominated country and you would rather side with Kuffar Hindus than your brothers and sisters in Islam?

I am living in a country that has gauranteed my freedom of religion. If India was established as a Hindu republic or supressed my religious rights like China does, then yes Indian muslims will be opposed to it.

I care about muslims as well as non-muslims as our religion requires us to. I care about the common person on both sides. But do you or more specifically the Pakistani government care about Indian muslims (forget about the average "Hindu")? Ofcourse not.
There are more than enough examples of anti Indian muslim bias in Pakistan just because they are Indian. So no, this has nothing to do with Islam, its only about Pakistan. I am not saying evey Pakistani is like this but specifically to the military/elite establishment that runs the country.

Indian Muslims are one of the few Muslims in the world to enjoy sustained democracy and Indian parliament is fairly representatice of the Indian public (including indian muslims). The same cannot be said about Pakistan as most of the foreign policy (particularly Indian policy) is decided by military officials who have a vested interest in having a continuing conflict with India and generating propaganda for their masses. I know it might be difficult for you to understand but
Pakistan cannot expect the support of India's Muslims if it is in the wrong. And there is nothing anti-Islamic about it.

 

[Omar1984]

This is just your misunderstanding on your part. Indian muslims represent any muslim country where you may have "name only" muslims but there are many who have contributed to Islam enormously as well. Please open your eyes and you will see Nadwatul uloom, Dar-ul uloom deoband, Zakir Naik's Islamic Research Foundation, AIMMM, Tablighi Jamaat and a number of other positve contribution of Indian muslim society that shows how much they care about their religion.

I didnt say Indian Muslims were bad, I said India has over 80% Hindu population, Muslims are a minority in India. Is that a correct or false statement?

We are talking about now, not the future. And thats why SAARC is the building point because it woudl benefit the smaller countries more. You never addressed any of the economic benefits that I keep mentioning. Don't you want the lives of the common people to improve?

How has SAARC improved the lives of the common people in South Asia? There has been no significant change coming from SAARC so far.

Millions of Muslims Hindus and Sikhs died BECAUSE of the partition not FOR it. And sorry to burst your bubble but because the muslim day starts from Maghrib, and Pakistan's independance was at midnight 14 August, It was actually on the 26th of Ramadan while India got independace on the 27th. Get any calculator on the net and you will see that. Besides, this is not even part of the discussion here.

Millions of Muslims died for The Islamic Republic of Pakistan on the Holy month of Ramadan because the Muslims who were on the Indian side wanted to be part of Pakistan and sacraficed their lives for it. The ones who decided to stay in India did not make those sacrafices. Partition had to happen because we were killing each other even before partition, but the way it happened was wrong.

By the way the 27th night actually starts on the 26th.
Night comes first in our calendar like taraveeh! hav u noticed that we start offering taraveeh a day before ramadan and we dont offer taraveeh on the last 'ROZA' (fast).

I am living in a country that has gauranteed my freedom of religion. If India was established as a Hindu republic or supressed my religious rights like China does, then yes Indian muslims will be opposed to it.

Thats why Hindus and Sikhs murdered and raped over a million Muslims in 1947, thats why Hindus destroyed Babri Masjid in 1992 and killed and raped innocent Muslims in riots in Mumbai following that, thats why Hindus massacred Muslims in Gujrat in 2002.

I care about muslims as well as non-muslims as our religion requires us to. I care about the common person on both sides. But do you or more specifically the Pakistani government care about Indian muslims (forget about the average "Hindu")? Ofcourse not.

Do Indian Muslims care about Pakistanis. Of Course not, thats why you chose India over Pakistan in 1947, and whenever something happens in your Mumbai you join hindus in burning our flag.

There are more than enough examples of anti Indian muslim bias in Pakistan just because they are Indian. So no, this has nothing to do with Islam, its only about Pakistan. I am not saying evey Pakistani is like this but specifically to the military/elite establishment that runs the country.

Pakistan has a problem with India specifically Hindu extremists, if you Indian "Muslims" want to side with Hindu extremists then of course we are going to have a problem with you also.

Indian Muslims are one of the few Muslims in the world to enjoy sustained democracy and Indian parliament is fairly representatice of the Indian public (including indian muslims). The same cannot be said about Pakistan as most of the foreign policy (particularly Indian policy) is decided by military officials who have a vested interest in having a continuing conflict with India and generating propaganda for their masses. I know it might be difficult for you to understand but
Pakistan cannot expect the support of India's Muslims if it is in the wrong. And there is nothing anti-Islamic about it.

Dude, check out your Indian news channels see what kind of propaganda they make against Pakistan. Check out your Indian films, how come they always show Muslim girls falling in love with Hindu boys in Indian films and not the other way around, when you know its forbidden for a Muslim girl to marry a non-muslim.
You cant hide the facts. 1947, 1992, 2002 was more than enough for you Indian Muslims to handle.
Also check this fact:

 

[Max The Boss]

Sri Lanka will have a Singapore style Economic & Security plans.

Navel war ships from China, USA, Pakistan & Russia (Friendly visit) visiting Sri Lanka.

Sri Lanka always had a good friendship with China, USA, Pakistan & Russia.

Why always India fearing China?

India should stop blaming Sri Lanka, India only know to blame Sri Lanka.

Sri Lanka is an Independent country; Sri Lanka will have strategic Economic & Security plans.

India did not help Sri Lanka when Sri Lanka suffering.

Sri Lanka’s good friends China, USA, Pakistan & Russia helped Sri Lanka when Sri Lanka suffering.

 

[Max The Boss]

Sri Lanka won't trust India any way

 

[EjazR]

Thats why Hindus and Sikhs murdered and raped over a million Muslims in 1947, thats why Hindus destroyed Babri Masjid in 1992 and killed and raped innocent Muslims in riots in Mumbai following that, thats why Hindus massacred Muslims in Gujrat in 2002.

And what about the Hindus and Sikhs raped and murdered by the muslim mobs? I am not belittling the people who died. My heart cries when I hear or read their stories, but what happened was BECAUSE they had to willingly or unwillingly leave their homes and head to another land because of Two nation theory. Somthing which is'nt sanctioned by the Quran anyway. Now Pakistan is a reality and I'm not saying lets go back to pre-1947 but this is what happened.

And yes muslims have suffered in riots. Riots usually happen because of political compulsions and the recent Gujarat probe (even Modi is being questioned) shows that when push comes to shove, the Indian judiciary will give justice. Now compare this to Pakistan were judiciary is subservient to the government most of the time. Im sure the number of muslims killed in Pakistan this year alone are more than the number of muslims killed in India this year. Even though Indian muslims live in a Hindu majority country

Do Indian Muslims care about Pakistanis. Of Course not, thats why you chose India over Pakistan in 1947, and whenever something happens in your Mumbai you join hindus in burning our flag.

Care for the average Pakistani, ofcourse I do. Don't forget that most Karachites have relatives in India. And have families across the border.
I personally didnt have a choice. My grandparents choose to stay in India, and I thank Allah for their decision looking at the situation now. Besides, even if Iw anted to go to Pakistan, would I be accepted there? Even though it was the present day Indian muslims who died in the partition (i.e. the muhajirs)

50 Muslims including children and women were killed in that mumbai attack along with other Indians. While I personally don't see any point in burning flags, I can understand the anger of the average mumbaites (including muslims). Arn't you angry that Saudi, Egyptions, Afghans and Uzbeks causing problems in NWFP?

Pakistan has a problem with India specifically Hindu extremists, if you Indian "Muslims" want to side with Hindu extremists then of course we are going to have a problem with you also.

I have a problem with the Pakistani military and intellegience establishment pokicy towads India. And believe it or not they actually prefer Hindu extremists like the BJP coming to power. Infact, Im sure many on this forum where disappointed when BJP actually lost the elections. They were even reports (unsubstantiated) that ISI was funding (through the US) RSS , VHP and other extermist groups so as to help to cause frictions between Hindus and Muslims. I would'nt be surprised if it was true

And ofcourse there are the age old issues of bombings and shootings in Kashmir and mainland India, supposedly in defence of the muslims. We (and that includes Kashmiris) are sick and tired of this stuff. If you support these policies then you are part of the problem.

Dude, check out your Indian news channels see what kind of propaganda they make against Pakistan. Check out your Indian films, how come they always show Muslim girls falling in love with Hindu boys in Indian films and not the other way around, when you know its forbidden for a Muslim girl to marry a non-muslim.
You cant hide the facts. 1947, 1992, 2002 was more than enough for you Indian Muslims to handle.

I don't follow every Hindi Film that much but Im pretty sure there are movies that show both. Jodha Akbar was a recent one that was quite good. Im pretty sure they are plenty others.

Sure Indian muslims have had problems and still do. But at the same time we can and are changing this because we have politcal rights and civil liberties.
And we had even more problems by Pakistani subversive actions which has never helped Indian muslims in anyway.

Like I said Indian muslims don't have to be pro-pakistan and being anti-pakistan doesnt mean somehow they are less muslim. I know its difficult for you to accept that but I will keep insisting this. The problem is not with Islam or being Islamic, its Pakistani policies on India in the garb of being Islamic that are anything but. Similar to how Taliban have manipulated their policies using the name of Islam.

Besides that not even the point here.

The point is having an South Asian union like SAARC or an Asian union like SCO albeit even an economic union with favourable custom rates will be mutually beneficial. Hopefully you will discuss and focus on this point to keep to the topic.

 

[Omar1984]

And what about the Hindus and Sikhs raped and murdered by the muslim mobs? I am not belittling the people who died. My heart cries when I hear or read their stories, but what happened was BECAUSE they had to willingly or unwillingly leave their homes and head to another land because of Two nation theory. Somthing which is'nt sanctioned by the Quran anyway. Now Pakistan is a reality and I'm not saying lets go back to pre-1947 but this is what happened.

Before partition, Muslims, Sikhs, and Hindus were killing each other especially in Punjab and other parts of Northern British India, there was no way Muslims of Northern British India would have allowed British to leave us in the mercy of Hindu Majority India. We had to be separated or we dont know how many Muslims would've been killed and how many riots there would be in Lahore and Sialkot. Partition had to happen for Muslims to rule their own land the way they pleased.

And yes muslims have suffered in riots. Riots usually happen because of political compulsions and the recent Gujarat probe (even Modi is being questioned) shows that when push comes to shove, the Indian judiciary will give justice. Now compare this to Pakistan were judiciary is subservient to the government most of the time. Im sure the number of muslims killed in Pakistan this year alone are more than the number of muslims killed in India this year. Even though Indian muslims live in a Hindu majority country

Pakistan is only suffering after India set its consulates in Afghanistan. Compare the number of violence in Pakistan before 2002 and after 2002, you would see a huge difference, and its only in certain places of Pakistan especially areas near Afghanistan where India has made its prescence.

Care for the average Pakistani, ofcourse I do. Don't forget that most Karachites have relatives in India. And have families across the border.
I personally didnt have a choice. My grandparents choose to stay in India, and I thank Allah for their decision looking at the situation now. Besides, even if Iw anted to go to Pakistan, would I be accepted there? Even though it was the present day Indian muslims who died in the partition (i.e. the muhajirs)

Those Muslims who chose to come to Pakistan after partition would also say they thank Allah for their decision for migrating to Pakistan. Ask Dr Abdul Qadir Khan and General Pervaiz Musharaf if they regret coming to Pakistan. By the way, most of the Muslims who died during partition were Punjabi Muslims who were on the other side of Punjab trying to cross into Pakistan's part of Punjab and were butchered by Sikhs and Hindus on their way. Why do you think India's part of Punjab has the least amount of Muslims in all of India, even when Pakistan's side of Punjab is almost all Muslims and Punjabis are the ones who contributed most to Sufism in the subcontinent.

50 Muslims including children and women were killed in that mumbai attack along with other Indians. While I personally don't see any point in burning flags, I can understand the anger of the average mumbaites (including muslims). Arn't you angry that Saudi, Egyptions, Afghans and Uzbeks causing problems in NWFP?

Mumbai drama was a joke. Your police/army/navy couldn't even handle 10 young hoodlums who crossed international waters into Mumbai, India...and why would I burn a Muslim country's flags? I would be angry at the people not their country, especially if its an Islamic Republic country. Most of the problems in our western provinces are because India made its prescence in neighboring Afghanistan. NWFP/FATA was the most peaceful place in Pakistan before 2002.

I have a problem with the Pakistani military and intellegience establishment pokicy towads India. And believe it or not they actually prefer Hindu extremists like the BJP coming to power. Infact, Im sure many on this forum where disappointed when BJP actually lost the elections. They were even reports (unsubstantiated) that ISI was funding RSS , VHP and other extermist groups so as to causing frictions between Hindus and Muslims.

That's just plain old

And ofcourse there are the age old issues of bombings and shootings in Kashmir and mainland India, supposedly in defence of the muslims. We (and that includes Kashmiris) are sick and tired of this stuff. If you support these policies then you are part of the problem.

Kashmir is a disputed territory between Pakistan and India recognized by UN and the whole world as disputed, dont try to compare it to India, and Kashmiris are not Indians.

I don't follow every Hindi Film that much but Im pretty sure there are movies that show both. Jodha Akbar was a recent one that was quite good. Im pretty sure they are plenty others.

Most of your movies are anti-Muslim. Everytime they mention muslim-hindu romance..they always pick Muslim girl and Hindu man. Why cant they show Hindu girl with Muslim man..oh thats right Hindus might get offended, yet they dont care how Muslims feel.

Sure Indian muslims have had problems and still do. But at the same time we can and are changing this because we have politcal rights and civil liberties.

Keep telling yourself that. 1947, 1992, and 2002 say a different story.

And we had even more problems by Pakistanz subversive actions which has never helped Indian muslims in anyway. Like I said Indian muslims don't have to be pro-pakistan and being anti-pakistan doesnt mean somehow they are less muslim. I know its difficult for you to accept that but I will keep insisting this. The problem is not with Islam or being Islamic, its Pakistani policies on India in the garb of being Islamic that are anything but. Similar to how Taliban have manipulated their policies using the name of Islam.

Most Pakistanis are against Taliban. Pakistan is fighting a war against Taliban. Pakistani policies towards India is much better than Indian policies towards Pakistan....and Allah will judge you for taking Hindus side over Muslims.

The point is hacing an South Asian union like SAARC or an Asian union like SCO albeit even an economic union with favourable custom rates will be mutually beneficial. Hopefully you will discuss and focus on this point to keep to the topic.

I'm still waiting for that mutual benefit coming from SAARC.

 

[applesauce]

guys we can talk about a union when the asian continent is rich like western europe and have worked out boarder issues

 

[EjazR]

Before partition, Muslims, Sikhs, and Hindus were killing each other especially in Punjab and other parts of Northern British India, there was no way Muslims of Northern British India would have allowed British to leave us in the mercy of Hindu Majority India. We had to be separated or we dont know how many Muslims would've been killed and how many riots there would be in Lahore and Sialkot. Partition had to happen for Muslims to rule their own land the way they pleased.

Riots intensified closer to partition. And the British political agents definitely played a role in worsening the situation. You can read Maulana Azad's India Wins Freedom. Pakistani PM Gilani has referred to this as his most favorite and influential book.

If you really want to get an unbiased perspective on partition history, I suggest you read declassified documents from the British government about the partition like the Cabinet Mission Plan (some of it here Cabinet Mission Plan 1946 documents ) andTransfer of Power documents in 24 volumes where their tacit support to the rioters is explained in detail. It talks about how Congress leaders Hindus and Muslims as well as other muslim & hindu leaders trying to bring peace in riot affected area were arrested while Muslim league and Hindu Mahasabha activists were left freely. Arn't you surprised that Maulana Abul Kalam Azad, Abdul Gaffar Khan e.t.c spent years in British Jail but Jinnah and other Muslim league and RSS/Mahasabha activists were never arrested?

However, I have to agree that partition had to happen, given the situation created by the 1940s then. Having a SAARC council isn't denying that. Its a cooperative council for economic, cultural and cooperative benefits.

Pakistan is only suffering after India set its consulates in Afghanistan. Compare the number of violence in Pakistan before 2002 and after 2002, you would see a huge difference, and its only in certain places of Pakistan especially areas near Afghanistan where India has made its prescence.

Well what about sunni-shia clashes and deobandi barelvi riots? Killing each other in mosques of all places!? Something that even extremist Hindus haven't dared do to muslims in India.
What about the Ahmadis killed in the 50s and 60s? What about the Lal Masjid operation? The muhajir pathan riots in Karachi? And ofcourse there are the Baloch insurgencies that happened well before 2001. I don't enjoy bringing this up but I'm just putting things in perspective that just blaming India is not the solution. Pakistan need to get its act together instead of just blaming external factors. I pray they do, if only to stop the innocent blood being split their.

Those Muslims who chose to come to Pakistan after partition would also say they thank Allah for their decision for migrating to Pakistan. Ask Dr Abdul Qadir Khan and General Pervaiz Musharaf if they regret coming to Pakistan. By the way, most of the Muslims who died during partition were Punjabi Muslims who were on the other side of Punjab trying to cross into Pakistan's part of Punjab and were butchered by Sikhs and Hindus on their way. Why do you think India's part of Punjab has the least amount of Muslims in all of India, even when Pakistan's side of Punjab is almost all Muslims and Punjabis are the ones who contributed most to Sufism in the subcontinent.

Please don't divide the sufferings of muslims up as Punjabis, Biharis e.t.c. and still those were punjabi muslims who came from the present day Indian side.

Unfortunately Dr. AQ Khan had been declared traitor on national TV and can't even travel freely in his country. While Dr. Abul Kalam of India is invited around the world to address the west on various forums and made president of India.
And Musharraf? Isn't he one of the most hated person in Pakistan now? He bought a house in England recently just before the SC summons. Wanna bet on when he will come back to Pakistan?

And what about the Pakistani Bihari muslims (about 300 000) left in Bangladesh? Did Pakistan government care for these people who sacrificed TWICE for Pakistan. Atleast finally the present Bangladeshi government has been compassionate enough to give them citizenship in 2008.

But I am sure there are muhajirs, even non-Punjabi muhajirs who must have been successful and are happy in Pakistan.
Although I would remind you of how MQM is treated wiht suspicion by Punjabis as some sort of terrorist group even though its the third largest political party in Pakistan with membership from not only Muhajirs but Pathans, Kashmiris and southern Punjab as well. And I'm sure you know what Altaf Hussain and their party cadre's view is on Partition.

Mumbai drama was a joke. Your police/army/navy couldn't even handle 10 young hoodlums who crossed international waters into Mumbai, India...and why would I burn a Muslim country's flags? I would be angry at the people not their country, especially if its an Islamic Republic country. Most of the problems in our western provinces are because India made its prescence in neighboring Afghanistan. NWFP/FATA was the most peaceful place in Pakistan before 2002.

Why is it so hard for you to condemn the killing of innocents. I don't care who was behind it or how inept the security forces were. Innocent people were killed. 170 people lost their lives, 50 of them muslims and thats no joke. Isnt a human life more important then a Islamic countries flag? Again I don't think burning a flag is valid, but there is anger on the streets these things happen.

FATA was the staging ground for the Afghan war against USSR and was flooded with weapons, there have been no political rights to the people there even now. The only time these people followed non-violence was under Gaffar Khan and his Red Shirts organisation.

Kashmir is a disputed territory between Pakistan and India recognized by UN and the whole world as disputed, dont try to compare it to India, and Kashmiris are not Indians.

We should let the Kashmiris decide wether they want to be called Indians or not. I have personal contacts with people living in IaK and thats why I claimed what I claimed. Besides you can get independant opinion polls that say the same thing again if you say that is anecdotal

Most of your movies are anti-Muslim. Everytime they mention muslim-hindu romance..they always pick Muslim girl and Hindu man. Why cant they show Hindu girl with Muslim man..oh thats right Hindus might get offended, yet they dont care how Muslims feel.

Im not going to discuss movies anymore as movies are not government policy. I gave you the example of Jodha Akbar. Many Hindus appreciated the movie because of how beautifully it was done. Some Hindu-extremists may have opposed it, I don't know.

Keep telling yourself that. 1947, 1992, and 2002 say a different story.

And so do the elections results of 2009, the Gujarat SIT probe and the submission of the Liberhan commision report.
Do you know that the Sants and Sadhus of Ayodhya have banned the entry of VHP/BJP and Bajrang Dal there because they were against the illegal Babri Masjid demolition and killing of muslims after that? BJP never again won from that consituency ever.
The Tehelka undercover reporter whose evidence is being used in the current Gujarat riots case was a Hindu as well.
That tells the real story.

Most Pakistanis are against Taliban. Pakistan is fighting a war against Taliban. Pakistani policies towards India is much better than Indian policies towards Pakistan....and Allah will judge you for taking Hindus side over Muslims.

Is it because of the ISPR reports that India, US and Israel are behind them that they are against TTP? If yes then, Pakistan is fighting and winning the battle, but not the idelogical war. When majority Pakistanis will be against Afghan Taliban then we have an important breakthrough. Again its the military and intelligence agencies decision on how to portray the Taliban as the reality they are one of the dominant policy makers.

Pakistani civilian policies are fine, its the ISI and militarie's dominance over the civilian leadership that is the problem. They have a vested interest in keeping the conflict alive to divert the attention of the public to the Indian threat from the mishandling and looting of their country

And stop with making childish emotive statements. I am against Pakistani militaristic policies against India that directly and indirectly affect muslims and at the same time against extremist Hindutva agenda inside India. What do you mean side with Hindus against muslims? Allah will judge us all, especially if we close our eyes and refuse to think. May Allah guide us all to the right path

I'm still waiting for that mutual benefit coming from SAARC.

Like I said, thats the building point. The economic benefits of having a Free trade zone, duty free area would be enormous. Wouldn't it be nice to get cheap TATA cars in Pakistan duty free? Wouldn't it benefit Pakistani farmers to sell their produce in India tax free? And then there is investment Indian companies can make in other countries to create jobs their like its doing in Bangladesh now. Bangladesh now an India investment hub

Its win win for all while we work out border disputes and other issues. I hope you can atleast understand the benefits now.

 

[HK-47]

Most of your movies are anti-Muslim. Everytime they mention muslim-hindu romance..they always pick Muslim girl and Hindu man. Why cant they show Hindu girl with Muslim man..oh thats right Hindus might get offended, yet they dont care how Muslims feel.

I really like this part.This is something that is recurring in a lot of Hindi films and has a 'patriotic' tone to it.They also have a tendency to defame Islam.
Maybe it's not government policy but tells a lot about Indians.

Wouldn't it be nice to get cheap TATA cars in Pakistan duty free? Wouldn't it benefit Pakistani farmers to sell their produce in India tax free? And then there is investment Indian companies can make in other countries to create jobs their like its doing in Bangladesh now. Bangladesh now an India investment hub

Its win win for all while we work out border disputes and other issues. I hope you can atleast understand the benefits now.

dude all these are day dreams.
Like Omar said the EU worked because they were all Christians.Period.

 

[EjazR]

I really like this part.This is something that is recurring in a lot of Hindi films and has a 'patriotic' tone to it.They also have a tendency to defame Islam.
Maybe it's not government policy but tells a lot about Indians.


dude all these are day dreams.
Like Omar said the EU worked because they were all Christians.Period.

Out of my entire post, the part about the movies was the most important thing you wanted to address? And which movie defamed Islam? Any movie that would would never see the light of day, believe me. I have already given you example of JodhaAkbar where a muslim king and a Rajput princess fall in love. There are many others. The recent movie Slumdog millionaire is another were a muslim hero falls in love with a hindu girl. So stop getting so antsy about bollywood. Don't watch bollywood movies if you don't like them

If you want to say they portay Pakistanis and terrorists in bad light, I'll agree with you. Art imitates life afterall, and the producers want to make money

Sorry but EU is not even religious. Besides, they have strong secretarian differences like Anglicans, Protestants, Catholics and Orthodox. Its NOT religion thats holding them together. Its economic interests.

Did you even read the link about Indian companies creating jobs in Bangladesh?