Army to get six heavy-duty Apache attack helicopters

[doe33]

Lol.
It is PAF which is now famous for crashing itself into the ground.

Since January 2012 till today there have 29 crashes of IAF fighter jets whereas PAF has seen 24 fighter jet crashes i.e. a ratio of 1.21:1.

Now taking into consideration the fact the IAF is 1.8 to 2.0x the size of PAF, PAFs crash rate is significantly worse than IAF's.
In helicopter department too, January 2012 onwards Indian military saw 13 write offs & 5 damaged whereas Pakistan whose helo fleet despite being atleast 1.8x smaller saw 10 write offs & 5 damaged in same period i.e. a crash ratio of 1.30:1 which means in this department too, Pakistan crash rate is much worse.
https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/dblist.php?Country=AP
https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/dblist.php?Country=VT

Why giving logic? Now surely he will change the context of discussion.

 

[ziaulislam]

There are historic reasons, in the past the IAF wanted control of everything that flew, they opposed the Indian Navy and Army from having their own aviation wings. Whilst this has been addressed to a large degree there is still a legacy of the IAF being spoilt brats (IMHO), they think that because the current fleet of Mi-35s are in IAF control so should their replacements (AH-64Es), it has created the rather crazy situation where both the IA and IAF will operate identical assets.

They also claim they will use the Apaches for SEAD/DEAD.


Hmm, it's an interesting thought.

There's nothing that I have seen to indicate this though- 39 Apaches are assured for the IA (1 SQN each for the 3 Strike Corps) so more Apaches are coming. But I do think the IA (and IAF) will deploy LCHs to the West and not just the East/North.

In the next 10 years there's no doubt that HAL will start working on their AH-64 equivalent though.

honestly its more ridiculous for IAF using gunships, there is goignt o be lack of co ordination, i think amry should control these assets, for navy its debatable especially if it helpe to mitigate training and other costs especially if its an identical plateform.
its going to be weird for army, air force both using apaches
i doubt they have much role in SEAD

Lol.
It is PAF which is now famous for crashing itself into the ground.

Since January 2012 till today there have 29 crashes of IAF fighter jets whereas PAF has seen 24 fighter jet crashes i.e. a ratio of 1.21:1.

Now taking into consideration the fact the IAF is 1.8 to 2.0x the size of PAF, PAFs crash rate is significantly worse than IAF's.
In helicopter department too, January 2012 onwards Indian military saw 13 write offs & 5 damaged whereas Pakistan whose helo fleet despite being atleast 1.8x smaller saw 10 write offs & 5 damaged in same period i.e. a crash ratio of 1.30:1 which means in this department too, Pakistan crash rate is much worse.
https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/dblist.php?Country=AP
https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/dblist.php?Country=VT

logic is way more operational flight hours especially in helicopters department(and hence the gunships going down), we are running an operation larger than NATO

in air force its true we are loosing lots of planes mostly the old mirages and f-7s, IAF have effectively stop flying those, the situation would go away in next 3-4 years, i still dont know the definition of much worse, whether couple of more crashes qualify as way worse. would you be kind enough to post all the crashes and subtypes of both airforces, as you already worked hard enough to get the numbers

 

[airmarshal]

Only 6! For such a large force.

The way this tussle is between Air Force and Army, it does not seem both military branches are at good terms and that is not a good omen as Air Force and Army have to fight wars together. In theory, Air Force should not be flying attack helicopters. They should be given to Army.

 

[Kinetic]

Only 6! For such a large force.

The way this tussle is between Air Force and Army, it does not seem both military branches are at good terms and that is not a good omen as Air Force and Army have to fight wars together. In theory, Air Force should not be flying attack helicopters. They should be given to Army.

6 is just a start ultimate goal is to get 40 Ah-64E. Army also got 27 of Rudra (70 on order)and 120 of LCH are on order.

Rudra (Army has 27 of them already)

 

[Gregor Clegane]

honestly its more ridiculous for IAF using gunships, there is goignt o be lack of co ordination, i think amry should control these assets, for navy its debatable especially if it helpe to mitigate training and other costs especially if its an identical plateform.
its going to be weird for army, air force both using apaches
i doubt they have much role in SEAD


logic is way more operational flight hours especially in helicopters department(and hence the gunships going down), we are running an operation larger than NATO

in air force its true we are loosing lots of planes mostly the old mirages and f-7s, IAF have effectively stop flying those, the situation would go away in next 3-4 years, i still dont know the definition of much worse, whether couple of more crashes qualify as way worse. would you be kind enough to post all the crashes and subtypes of both airforces, as you already worked hard enough to get the numbers

It is not only that PAF suffers from a higher crash rate than IAF, but PAF fighter jet pilots fatalities are a staggering three times higher than IAF fighter jet pilot fatalities as since 2012, 15 PAF combat pilots killed in crashes in comparison to 4 IAF combat pilots killed.

These shows something is seriously wrong with PAF pilot training.

 

[wiseone2]

in air force its true we are loosing lots of planes mostly the old mirages and f-7s, IAF have effectively stop flying those, the situation would go away in next 3-4 years, i still dont know the definition of much worse, whether couple of more crashes qualify as way worse. would you be kind enough to post all the crashes and subtypes of both airforces, as you already worked hard enough to get the numbers

I agree the Indian army should own Apaches. Air Force has no business with them.

I will say this about accidents - the accident rate is a function of how air force trains. statistics will not tell the whole story. If I drive my car on city roads from work to home to grocery store I am less likely to have an accident as opposed to driving my car to the mountainous regions on a daily basis.

 

[Sully3]

meanwhile in India

 

[ziaulislam]

It is not only that PAF suffers from a higher crash rate than IAF, but PAF fighter jet pilots fatalities are a staggering three times higher than IAF fighter jet pilot fatalities as since 2012, 15 PAF combat pilots killed in crashes in comparison to 4 IAF combat pilots killed.

These shows something is seriously wrong with PAF pilot training.

can you post the list

 

[Gregor Clegane]

can you post the list

https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/dblist.php?Country=AP

 

[#hydra#]

Long term? No doubt about it. Once LCH and LUH development programs are complete HAL will move onto IMRH and a heavier attack helo 100%.

I think not IA & IAF will go for more number of appaches,so closely will be with Indian military,and by our nature of operating thing,we will continue to use it minimum 30 years from the day of induction. Tell me,in that case weather our armed forces support such new inhouse heavy class copters ?

 

[Omega007]

It is not only that PAF suffers from a higher crash rate than IAF, but PAF fighter jet pilots fatalities are a staggering three times higher than IAF fighter jet pilot fatalities as since 2012, 15 PAF combat pilots killed in crashes in comparison to 4 IAF combat pilots killed.

These shows something is seriously wrong with PAF pilot training.

This was completely unnecessary.

 

[Tshering22]

Why only 6?

How is that supposed to help in CAS roles? It hsould have been at least a dozen if not more.

 

[Kinetic]

meanwhile in India

Idiot, you dont have a similar ship! The entire surface fleet of your navy costs less than our two destroyers.

 

[Abingdonboy]

honestly its more ridiculous for IAF using gunships, there is goignt o be lack of co ordination, i think amry should control these assets,

That's not an issue, existing IAF Mi-35s are co-deployed with IA formations and are under the IA's full battlefield authority over the attack helos. The IAF's attack helo SQNs are well integrated with the IA.

for navy its debatable especially if it helpe to mitigate training and other costs especially if its an identical plateform.

The IN has entirely seperated itself from any other branch and is expanding their aviaton arm entirely in-house.

i doubt they have much role in SEAD

The first shots fired in Operation Desert storm were by US army Apaches taking out Iraqi radar sites, the IAF is very much interested in this role.

Army also got 27 of Rudra (70 on order)

The IA has 90 Rudra on order.

Tell me,in that case weather our armed forces support such new inhouse heavy class copters ?

Of course, it will be designed to their specifications just like the ALH, LUH, LCH and IMRH and will have automatic orders from the outset. The Indian military won't be sitting still, for the forseeable future they will be expanding just as the defence budget grows (considerably after the 2020).

Only 6! For such a large force.

Why only 6?

How is that supposed to help in CAS roles? It hsould have been at least a dozen if not more.

A minimum of 39 Apaches are promised to the IA but they would like 50.


This deal is making use of the follow-on clause contained within the IAF's Apache deal, 6 Apaches will allow the IA to kickstart the training and infrastructure development for 3 SQNs (1 each for the Strike Corps) whilst the larger deal for IA Apaches is worked out seperately. It was impossible to meet the IA's demands in full (39+) with the follow on clause, this is a good comprimise and a surprisingly dynamic decision from the MoD- by the time the IA's full Apache order begins landing in India they will already be well versed in operating the Apache.

 

[danger007]

Boeing Apache Block 64E IV is awesome.


50 of them will be great for Army.

hahahaha... Next we will buy Predator! You know it better than others!

If economy progressed well, I would like to see 75 to 100... Along with LCH...