Army set to place order for 118 Arjun Mark 1-As, the most potent tank in its inventory

[Keysersoze]

Mk2 and Mk3 will have those issues rectified...



Don't know but surely better than Al Khalid and T80 UDs

Yes yes As with all Indian projects "It's going to be..."

Army's fleet of Arjun tanks face technical issues; major proportion of 124 tanks in service not operational
NEW DELHI: The Army is facing major technical issues with its ‘indigenous’ Arjun tanks, as a significant proportion of its fleet has become inoperable in recent months and are non-serviceable due to continued maintenance problems.

The Army, which reluctantly inducted 124 tanks from 2009, after the UPA government insisted that a token number have to be ordered to keep the tank development programme viable, has of late been having quality problems with the fleet.


https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...ofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst

That's obvious... Too bad we have to explain such thing here



Actually not... single ROOHANI Al Khalid 1 can smash entire Indian tank force... Happy???



I understand your hate towards India...



Today's modern shells can take out even Leo or Abram.... Your point???

I notice throughout your whole post you have not answered any of the Points raised and simply go with Hyperbole. How about you address all the failures instead of whining....

Mk2 and Mk3 will have those issues rectified...



Don't know but surely better than Al Khalid and T80 UDs

Surely better? The MK1 was supposed to be surely better according to pundits like you. Same with the Tejas and The NAG and so on.......

 

[Darth Vader]

Today's modern shells can take out even Leo or Abram.... Your point???

Re-read 1st bit of my post, mobility, camouflage, and weight could be the deciding factors in 1 on 1 battles

 

[SIPRA]

Indians open such threads to scare and "yarkaofy" us.

 

[vishwambhar]

Yes yes As with all Indian projects "It's going to be..."

Army's fleet of Arjun tanks face technical issues; major proportion of 124 tanks in service not operational
NEW DELHI: The Army is facing major technical issues with its ‘indigenous’ Arjun tanks, as a significant proportion of its fleet has become inoperable in recent months and are non-serviceable due to continued maintenance problems.

The Army, which reluctantly inducted 124 tanks from 2009, after the UPA government insisted that a token number have to be ordered to keep the tank development programme viable, has of late been having quality problems with the fleet.


https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...ofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst


I notice throughout your whole post you have not answered any of the Points raised and simply go with Hyperbole. How about you address all the failures instead of whining....


Surely better? The MK1 was supposed to be surely better according to pundits like you. Same with the Tejas and The NAG and so on.......

These are the reasons you should be more worried about Indian homemade stuff.... we test them thoroughly and don't care about induction time regardless of how much our enemies are arming themselves to teeth.... if in place of India there was some other country it would have literally pushed all these items to service irrespective of how it performs just to save face... India however want's completely tested and hardened platforms just like what NATO or south Korea, Japan types will do and hence the delays....but off course you are blinded with hate and so unable to see that ..

Re-read 1st bit of my post, mobility, camouflage, and weight could be the deciding factors in 1 on 1 battles

Im literally fade up of this weight factor of arjun which is considered as a weak point in deployment or mobility... its still lesser in weight than Abraham or markawa....
Consider this.... if USA wants to invade and occupy India or Pakistan then in that case they will be forced to use their infantry and armoured cores.... will their heavies like Abrahams become ducks due to our terrain and light weight agile tanks like T series and variants we have?

 

[SIPRA]

Indians are typically, what we call in Punjabi "Darshani Pehlwaan".

@Mangus Ortus Novem

 

[Keysersoze]

These are the reasons you should be more worried about Indian homemade stuff.... we test them thoroughly and don't care about induction time regardless of how much our enemies are arming themselves to teeth.... if in place of India there was some other country it would have literally pushed all these items to service irrespective of how it performs just to save face... India however want's completely tested and hardened platforms just like what NATO or south Korea, Japan types will do and hence the delays....but off course you are blinded with hate and so unable to see that ..

At this point you must be trolling.......

Actually I am glad your country goes for long lengthy programs that produce substandard equipment. It's a source of amusement for me (Genuinely )


That's why you have to react with multi billion dollar purchases every few years (When you don't screw those up) to account for all the failed programs.

You have pushed them out to save face. Tejas needs a Mk1A to be serviceable (I doubt it will be) Arjun needs a mk2 to be serviceable (I doubt it will be)

Lets look at Nato tanks and their dev cycles

Leopard 2 start 1967-production 1978 (albeit with some work from mbt70 ) ----11years
Challenger 2 start 1986 production 1998 -----12 years
Leclerc 1983- 1990 (Albeit with work from Char futur project) ----7 years
Type 90- 1976-1990 ---14years
Korean K1 was basically designed by the same US company that designed the M1 Abrams
Korean k2 1995-2008 ---13 years

And finally Arjun -1974-2004.......30 years...30 years and still not good enough

Im literally fade up of this weight factor of arjun which is considered as a weak point in deployment or mobility... its still lesser in weight than Abraham or markawa....
Consider this.... if USA wants to invade and occupy India or Pakistan then in that case they will be forced to use their infantry and armoured cores.... will their heavies like Abrahams become ducks due to our terrain and light weight agile tanks like T series and variants we have?

The weight factor is recognized as an issue due to the unique conditions (Sand in the Thar desert being finer etc) The Americans would use their airforce to catch large tank groups in the open. They being a larger more flexibale force would have other options.

And weight plays a part if you know about things like; power to weight ratio/ ground pressure

A comment from a fellow indian for you

FORCE visited the Combat Vehicles Research & Development Establishment (CVRDE) for an exclusive insight into the programme. We learnt that while the Arjun Mk-2 is substantially improved and more capable than the Arjun Mk-1; it is too heavy, limiting areas where it can be deployed by the Army. And that renders it unsuitable for the army’s operational requirements for a Main Battle Tank (MBT). According to P Sivakumar, Director CVRDE, “the weight of the Arjun prevents it from being deployed in all the areas required by the Army”.

 

[vishwambhar]

At this point you must be trolling.......

Actually I am glad your country goes for long lengthy programs that produce substandard equipment. It's a source of amusement for me (Genuinely )


That's why you have to react with multi billion dollar purchases every few years (When you don't screw those up) to account for all the failed programs.

You have pushed them out to save face. Tejas needs a Mk1A to be serviceable (I doubt it will be) Arjun needs a mk2 to be serviceable (I doubt it will be)

Lets look at Nato tanks and their dev cycles

Leopard 2 start 1967-production 1978 (albeit with some work from mbt70 ) ----11years
Challenger 2 start 1986 production 1998 -----12 years
Leclerc 1983- 1990 (Albeit with work from Char futur project) ----7 years
Type 90- 1976-1990 ---14years
Korean K1 was basically designed by the same US company that designed the M1 Abrams
Korean k2 1995-2008 ---13 years

And finally Arjun -1974-2004.......30 years...30 years and still not good enough


The weight factor is recognized as an issue due to the unique conditions (Sand in the Thar desert being finer etc) The Americans would use their airforce to catch large tank groups in the open. They being a larger more flexibale force would have other options.

And weight plays a part if you know about things like; power to weight ratio/ ground pressure

A comment from a fellow indian for you

FORCE visited the Combat Vehicles Research & Development Establishment (CVRDE) for an exclusive insight into the programme. We learnt that while the Arjun Mk-2 is substantially improved and more capable than the Arjun Mk-1; it is too heavy, limiting areas where it can be deployed by the Army. And that renders it unsuitable for the army’s operational requirements for a Main Battle Tank (MBT). According to P Sivakumar, Director CVRDE, “the weight of the Arjun prevents it from being deployed in all the areas required by the Army”.

I thought you must have read suryas post #27.... hence I didn't bother to reply in detail....
Why are you talking about leclerk, challenger, Abraham? Show me what Pakistan has developed indigenously that is comparable to Mk1 let alone 2 or 3.... upgraded Chinese Al Khalid?
Why don't you just accept that arjun is a tank in the class of NATO tanks and it outperforms any tank in south Asia? Why don't you? Please accept this...

 

[Darth Vader]

These are the reasons you should be more worried about Indian homemade stuff.... we test them thoroughly and don't care about induction time regardless of how much our enemies are arming themselves to teeth.... if in place of India there was some other country it would have literally pushed all these items to service irrespective of how it performs just to save face... India however want's completely tested and hardened platforms just like what NATO or south Korea, Japan types will do and hence the delays....but off course you are blinded with hate and so unable to see that ..



Im literally fade up of this weight factor of arjun which is considered as a weak point in deployment or mobility... its still lesser in weight than Abraham or markawa....
Consider this.... if USA wants to invade and occupy India or Pakistan then in that case they will be forced to use their infantry and armoured cores.... will their heavies like Abrahams become ducks due to our terrain and light weight agile tanks like T series and variants we have?

Its a big issue few reasons
1 Terrain.
Pakistani Terrain is not like Iraq, or most other middle eastern countries, You have Sandy deserts, , Plains, few big rivers, tons of smaller bodies of water in Punjab. And if You go NWFP thats Just Cold and Hilly Area only suitable for Light Tanks
So these limits any aggressors options.
2nd Design - Shape and Size
Arjun is quite big tank which makes it easier to spot than rest of the tanks in use on both sizes.
It will limit its use in Urban Warfare as quite bit of the area on Pakistani Side is Smaller cities. AGAIN THOSE ATGMs will wreak havoc on your spare head units which will force your inventory to push instead or your tanks which will slow down the overall push, and enemy can cause more damage with less number.
3 Uncle Sam.
Ground invasion wont be Easy even if its Uncle Sam or anyone unless they are using robtic army which has unlimited supply.
1 Uncle Sam will get Air Superiority Quite Easily as Pakistan doesnt have much ( known )capability to fight 5th Gen Birds.
But Thats Where the problem starts Uncle Sam cant use same tactics which were being used against other current adversaries( E.g If India , Iran , Afg ) doesnt interfere in what ever is happening Pakistan will Deploy large numbers of its sholder fired missiles close to sea shore they might not be as useful against Jets Bit will be be MIGHTY effective against Helios & Drone so it will limit the deployment locations and Option of Pakistan using its land Based Missiles Specially with Babar and Raad in Service it will slow down the progress as Uncle Sam will depend alot on Satellites for possible locations and using Cruise missiles as well and will try to keep its forces save as well.

In Last 30 Years No Body has actually fought a war with other nation with similar weapon systems, it will be bloody and slow for both sides

 

[Keysersoze]

I thought you must have read suryas post #27.... hence I didn't bother to reply in detail....
Why are you talking about leclerk, challenger, Abraham? Show me what Pakistan has developed indigenously that is comparable to Mk1 let alone 2 or 3.... upgraded Chinese Al Khalid?
Why don't you just accept that arjun is a tank in the class of NATO tanks and it outperforms any tank in south Asia? Why don't you? Please accept this...

Why don't I? Because it simply isn't.

Because I was in a NATO force and know Arjun would have been cancelled in those countries.
It doesn't matter to me where equipment comes from so long as it works....
Also

 

[vishwambhar]

Why don't I? Because it simply isn't.

Because I was in a NATO force and know Arjun would have been cancelled in those countries.
It doesn't matter to me where equipment comes from so long as it works....
Also

You are Pakistani working in NATO.... I can understand.... there's still time for you to understand the real LOHA of Arjun.... wait till Mk2 and Mk3 are operatiinal

Its a big issue few reasons
1 Terrain.
Pakistani Terrain is not like Iraq, or most other middle eastern countries, You have Sandy deserts, , Plains, few big rivers, tons of smaller bodies of water in Punjab. And if You go NWFP thats Just Cold and Hilly Area only suitable for Light Tanks
So these limits any aggressors options.
2nd Design - Shape and Size
Arjun is quite big tank which makes it easier to spot than rest of the tanks in use on both sizes.
It will limit its use in Urban Warfare as quite bit of the area on Pakistani Side is Smaller cities. AGAIN THOSE ATGMs will wreak havoc on your spare head units which will force your inventory to push instead or your tanks which will slow down the overall push, and enemy can cause more damage with less number.
3 Uncle Sam.
Ground invasion wont be Easy even if its Uncle Sam or anyone unless they are using robtic army which has unlimited supply.
1 Uncle Sam will get Air Superiority Quite Easily as Pakistan doesnt have much ( known )capability to fight 5th Gen Birds.
But Thats Where the problem starts Uncle Sam cant use same tactics which were being used against other current adversaries( E.g If India , Iran , Afg ) doesnt interfere in what ever is happening Pakistan will Deploy large numbers of its sholder fired missiles close to sea shore they might not be as useful against Jets Bit will be be MIGHTY effective against Helios & Drone so it will limit the deployment locations and Option of Pakistan using its land Based Missiles Specially with Babar and Raad in Service it will slow down the progress as Uncle Sam will depend alot on Satellites for possible locations and using Cruise missiles as well and will try to keep its forces save as well.

In Last 30 Years No Body has actually fought a war with other nation with similar weapon systems, it will be bloody and slow for both sides

For the bold part how would you look at Arjun if Pakistan had terrain like gulf countries and had light weight T series types tanks.... would you consider heavy weight Arjun a threat in this scenario?

 

[Keysersoze]

You are Pakistani working in NATO.... I can understand.... there's still time for you to understand the real LOHA of Arjun.... wait till Mk2 and Mk3 are operatiinal



For the bold part how would you look at Arjun if Pakistan had terrain like gulf countries and had light weight T series types tanks.... would you consider heavy weight Arjun a threat in this scenario?

Well it's been 30 years I wonder if MK2 will arrive before I retire....lol

I know now that you are a troll.....no one could be that stupid...lol

 

[Darth Vader]

You are Pakistani working in NATO.... I can understand.... there's still time for you to understand the real LOHA of Arjun.... wait till Mk2 and Mk3 are operatiinal



For the bold part how would you look at Arjun if Pakistan had terrain like gulf countries and had light weight T series types tanks.... would you consider heavy weight Arjun a threat in this scenario?

If Pakistan had out Dated Tanks, like Iraq THAN SAME THING WILL HAPPEN AGAIN

 

[Adonis]

At this point you must be trolling.......

Actually I am glad your country goes for long lengthy programs that produce substandard equipment. It's a source of amusement for me (Genuinely )


That's why you have to react with multi billion dollar purchases every few years (When you don't screw those up) to account for all the failed programs.

You have pushed them out to save face. Tejas needs a Mk1A to be serviceable (I doubt it will be) Arjun needs a mk2 to be serviceable (I doubt it will be)

Lets look at Nato tanks and their dev cycles

Leopard 2 start 1967-production 1978 (albeit with some work from mbt70 ) ----11years
Challenger 2 start 1986 production 1998 -----12 years
Leclerc 1983- 1990 (Albeit with work from Char futur project) ----7 years
Type 90- 1976-1990 ---14years
Korean K1 was basically designed by the same US company that designed the M1 Abrams
Korean k2 1995-2008 ---13 years

And finally Arjun -1974-2004.......30 years...30 years and still not good enough


The weight factor is recognized as an issue due to the unique conditions (Sand in the Thar desert being finer etc) The Americans would use their airforce to catch large tank groups in the open. They being a larger more flexibale force would have other options.

And weight plays a part if you know about things like; power to weight ratio/ ground pressure

A comment from a fellow indian for you

FORCE visited the Combat Vehicles Research & Development Establishment (CVRDE) for an exclusive insight into the programme. We learnt that while the Arjun Mk-2 is substantially improved and more capable than the Arjun Mk-1; it is too heavy, limiting areas where it can be deployed by the Army. And that renders it unsuitable for the army’s operational requirements for a Main Battle Tank (MBT). According to P Sivakumar, Director CVRDE, “the weight of the Arjun prevents it from being deployed in all the areas required by the Army”.

I am not expert on defence related topics...but just want to remind on your data (in bold) that all these countries had lot of prior experience in tank manufacturing (since 1st WW).....so designing and developing a new model is far easier than doing it from scratch...Also any new product ( e.g. car) when launched has to undergo constant improvement...but that cannot be counted as it's development phase, it's called refinement. similarly this Indian tank was launched and inducted long back...what is now happening is refinement.

 

[War Historian]

You shouldn't as once Mk2 and Mk3 are inducted in numbers it will make your entire tank inventory obsolete.... with LCH and Apache hovering around this tank force will steamroll any tank force that dares to come its way....

No problem, we have Nasr battlefield missile to roast your tank divisions. Come and try once again, since 1998 you had came to the international borders at many occasions almost 6 times with mighty tank force but never dare to cross the red line. Because your leadership not fool enough like you,they knew the consequences.
So better keep this mk1, mk2 ...mk 30 theory for your public consumption. In the real world there is no value of your delusion and wet dreams of teja, arjun,prithivi, lch ..blah blah.

 

[Keysersoze]

I am not expert on defence related topics...but just want to remind on your data (in bold) that all these countries had lot of prior experience in tank manufacturing (since 1st WW).....so designing and developing a new model is far easier than doing it from scratch...Also any new product ( e.g. car) when launched has to undergo constant improvement...but that cannot be counted as it's development phase, it's called refinement. similarly this Indian tank was launched and inducted long back...what is now happening is refinement.

Yes you are clearly not an expert also you have skipped over the South Koreans with the K2, The Argentinians with the TAM, The Israelis with the Merkava and the Turks with the Altay. All of these countries do not have a history of tank production. (All of these have a lower development cycle than that joke Arjun)

And you are right that products get improved but they have to be useful in the first place. For example the leo2 Abrams and so on are on 4+ blocks. However they were workable from the beginning, didn't take 30 years to reach their first iteration and were inducted in more than just 100.