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What about Pakistan Military's involvement in the country's economy?

A lot of militaries are involved in country's economies.

Look at American Defence Sector and its role in American economy.

But yes, we should not become like Egypt where military controls everything and countries goes into shithole!

With more and more efficient governments, economy would become more reliable and Army would be put to its place.
 
A lot of militaries are involved in country's economies.

Look at American Defence Sector and its role in American economy.

But yes, we should not become like Egypt where military controls everything and countries goes into shithole!

With more and more efficient governments, economy would become more reliable and Army would be put to its place.
Isn't there a difference between a country's mil-ind complex and military running commercial interests and factories? I don't see the US military running commercial diary farms or real estate business..
 
Isn't there a difference between a country's mil-ind complex and military running commercial interests and factories? I don't see the US military running commercial diary farms or real estate business..

Yeah, cuz American economy is very effective. As I said, as economy grows, this army inc. will transform into military industrial complex.

Pakistani governments sucked in the past. Army could not have relied on them...so therefore you see Military going the way of 'on its own' ..and they does a wonderful job. Companies where Pakistan military is a share holder have been performing better than others.

Anyways, as Pakistan's economic, cultural, and industrial strength increases---Pakistan military strength will increase and Army will get more focused on itself than money making..hopefully.
 
Yeah, cuz American economy is very effective. As I said, as economy grows, this army inc. will transform into military industrial complex.

Pakistani governments sucked in the past. Army could not have relied on them...so therefore you see Military going the way of 'on its own' ..and they does a wonderful job. Companies where Pakistan military is a share holder have been performing better than others.

Anyways, as Pakistan's economic, cultural, and industrial strength increases---Pakistan military strength will increase and Army will get more focused on itself than money making..hopefully.
So, you agree that Pakistan military is deep into profit making businesses... This is not a good sign for a professional army..
 
So, you agree that Pakistan military is deep into profit making businesses... This is not a good sign for a professional army..

Not really. Army isn't "deep into profit making business"...It just has influence in certain areas of economy. Nothing to do with professionalism though...
 
Not really. Army isn't "deep into profit making business"...It just has influence in certain areas of economy. Nothing to do with professionalism though...
Sorry Sir Army is in lot off business from fertilizers to property and many others
 
Nicely written. Detail about formtions is interesting and seems accurate.
 
Not really. Army isn't "deep into profit making business"...It just has influence in certain areas of economy. Nothing to do with professionalism though...
Pakistani army's '$20bn' business
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The army is considered by many Pakistanis as one of the country's only functioninginstitutions but its influence over the economy is a cause for concern [GALLO/GETTY]

As legislators in Pakistan go to the polls against a backdrop of political protests and religious militancy, a recent book on the Pakistani military has thrown light on the army's role in private enterprise.

The Pakistani military's "welfare foundations" run thousands of businesses worth tens of billions of dollars, ranging from street-corner petrol pumps to sprawling industrial plants, says Ayesha Siddiqa, the author of Military Inc: Inside Pakistan's Military Economy.

And Siddiqa told Al Jazeera that whoever emerges as the eventual winner following Saturday's presidential election, they are unlikely to tame the economic power of the military.

"These politicians continue to negotiate with the military and despite populist politics, and calls for civilian rule, they are still inclined to strengthen the military."

The main street of any Pakistani town bears testament to the economic power of the military, with army-owned bakeries, banks, insurance companies and universities, usually fronted by civilian employees.

Retired military personnel are often involved in the army's business ventures, and according to Siddiqa, this reflects a similar pattern found in the Turkish and Chinese militaries.

"Pakistan, however, displays more of an indirect exploitation through the retired personnel. They act as primary conduits for the covert use of the country's resources," she said.

Double standards

Siddiqa says the military's private wealth could be as high $20bn, a "rough figure", she says, split between $10bn in land and $10 in private military assets.

She also estimates that the military controls one-third of all heavy manufacturing in the country and up to seven per cent of Pakistani private assets.

The author told Al Jazeera that the naming of the new army chief, and a power-sharing deal between Pervez Musharraf and Benazir Bhutto, is another attempt to maintain the army's control in politics.

Bhutto herself had supported a number of the military's business ventures.

A number of projects by the welfare foundations were sanctioned under her government.

"None of the political governments raised any major objections to the military-business complex during the 1990s," Siddiqa said.

Ventures 'needed'

Discussion of the military's role in Pakistani society has provoked strong reactions, with many military officials refusing to speak to Al Jazeera about the issue.

But Talat Hussain, a retired general, told Al Jazeera that discussion of the military's role in private enterprise was considered taboo.

"This area has always been considered a sacred cow in our society".

According to government figures, welfare foundations, or 'pensions funds' for retired personnel, invest in over $10bn in commercial ventures including oil and gas exploration, sugar mills, security and employment services.

Last year, the commercial operations of the Fauji (Soldier) Foundation accrued at least $500 million.

However, Syed Arif Hasan, the managing director of the Fauji Foundation, believes there is nothing wrong with the army's commercial interests.

He said: "It is vital that we invest in the commercial sector. These businesses generate the welfare schemes for hundreds of thousands of retired soldiers and officers."

"There are very little options, and it also benefits the country's economy."

Asked if there was a conflict of interest in the army's penetration into society, he denied Siddiqa's claim that political control is a factor.

"We have no intention to politicise welfare organisations," he said.

According to their website, the Fauji Foundation provides welfare services to around 9.6 million people, seven per cent of Pakistan's population.

Fauji labels itself a 'welfare-cum-industrial' group, and is dependent on industrial operations to maintain their services, as approximately 80 per cent of Fauji's profits are obtained through investment.

No apologies

The military boasts that it can run such organisations better than what they view as "incompetent and corrupt civilians".

In a speech in 2004, to open a new business owned by the Fauji Foundation, Musharraf boasted of "exceptional" military-owned banks, cement and fertiliser plants.

"Why is anyone jealous if the retired military officers... are doing a good job contributing to the economy?" he said.

Siddiqa fears that her book may step on some powerful toes. "Over the past three years a lot of my friends have advised me not to publish this book. They think I have suicidal tendencies."

Pakistani army's '$20bn' business - Pakistan Power and politics - Al Jazeera English

Pakistan army is deep into business

KAI RYSSDAL: So far in Pakistan it's been the lawyers who've been leading the opposition to the state of emergency that was declared over the weekend. Business owners might have been a more effective choice. Because they at least speak the same economic language as many Army officers. Some estimates are that Pakistan's army controls businesses worth as much as $40 billion. Maybe 10 percent of the whole economy. The Rand Corporation's Seth Jones says the army occupies a unique spot in Pakistan's society. And has for decades.

SETH JONES: The Pakistani army has a role in many ways, and that is it's not just involved in defense but it also has quite a complex conglomerate. You know most of these small scale and large scale corporate enterprises range the gamete from private security firms and bakeries, farms, schools, to insurance companies, cement and cereal manufacturing plants

RYSSDAL: Military organizations, when you rise to the top you've demonstrated some organizational skill, but really what do Pakistan's generals know about running business?

JONES: I'm not sure they know an extraordinary amount. Although most of these business ventures really began in the 1950s. So, over the years they have built a pretty serious economic enterprise system within Pakistan. So, I suspect there has been learning over the decades, but I think most of these military officials involved are military officers first and businessmen and entrepreneurs second.

RYSSDAL: Is this all above board? Does everybody know about this?

JONES: Well I think most people, both in Pakistan and internationally, do understand to some degree that the Pakistani military is involved. But the specifics are very secretive.

RYSSDAL: Where do the profits go that these enterprises generate?

JONES: It's my understanding that the profits actually go to the Ministry of Defense and the individuals involved in it. I don't think there is a really good reliable estimate of how much we're talking about but it's in the billions of dollars.

RYSSDAL: So when a company goes out and puts a want ad in the paper and it says I need bakers for my new bakery shop that I'm gonna open up in Raul Pindi does it say, you know, that the Pakistani Army is hiring today or something like that?

JONES: I would guess in most cases it probably does not. Although with some of the social welfare organizations that are run by the Ministry of Defense they do have advertisements. But I think you know there is an effort to conceal most of this activity.

RYSSDAL: So over the past five or six years Pakistan has gotten about $10 billion I guess, plus or minus, from the United States. What has it done with that money?

JONES: Well, the Pakistani military in general has increased its competence primarily in conventional weapons and conventional combat capability. It has deployed some forces to the federally administered tribal areas to conduct very limited operations against Al Qaeda and other militants. But for the most part a lot of this funding and equipment is geared towards what could be considered combating the Indians.

RYSSDAL: So not strictly speaking counter-terrorism?

JONES: So not strictly counter-terrorism. Nope. By no means.

RYSSDAL: The money that the Bush administration has sent to Pakistan aside, the Pakistani economy, in and of itself, is really doing pretty well. Isn't it?

JONES: Yeah, the economy is doing fairly well. It will be interesting to see with the rioting in the streets how this will impact general business, but the economy has done fairly well.

RYSSDAL: Do you suppose the military stands to lose any money if this state of emergency goes on too long?

JONES: If demonstrations persist, levels of violence increase, you could see an impact on the general state of the economy. Then I expect if the economy begins to suffer significantly in Pakistan, then the military, which again is deeply involved in a variety of different businesses, will probably suffer with it.

RYSSDAL: Seth Jones. South Asia analyst at the RAND Corporation in Washington. Mr. Jones thanks for your time.

JONES: Thank you, very much.

Featured in: Marketplace for Tuesday, Nov. 6, 2007

 
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The military in business

You name it, they make it

It was strange when the news began to circulate a week ago, the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex in Kamra, allocated tax money to build aircrafts, has undertaken R&D to produce the Pacpad, Pakistan’s prototype for the Apple iPad, available for $200/piece in the market.

When questioned, managers of the project offered the strange logic of using ‘spare’ capacity and ‘employee welfare,’ but were unable to answer the more important question that how much money went into the project and how was the PAF able to get money allocated from the national budget for R&D on the Pacpad?

Trouble is that everyone knows how the money was allocated but will not say it. Over the last 65 years, the Pakistan’s military has been able to channel funds into building a $10 billion business empire for itself, from money allocated to it through the official military budget.

Somewhere along the line, military generals have channelled money into starting business ventures. In fact, if we were to become sociologists, we could say, there is something in the Pakistani military man’s psyche that makes him a businessman. Somehow, Pakistan’s military man is not satisfied with military work.

The expanse of Pakistan’s ‘milibus’ as Ayesha Siddiqa calls it in her bookMilitary Inc suggests the military controls 7 percent of the national GDP, controls one-third of heavy manufacturing, controls 6-7 percent of private sector assets and owns 12 million acres of land.

The deep entrenchment of military-run, and increasingly retired military man-run enterprise, in the economy has continued to expand. What earlier was an enterprise that expanded from cooperatives to protect Punjab military officers’ families after colonial period recruitment for the World Wars, expanded to include military-run banks, fertiliser factories, cereal factories, cement factories, construction companies, transport companies, insurance companies. “You name it, our military makes it,” appears to be the slogan. If the mere expanse of the milibus is to be considered, the Pakistani military is Pakistan’s best and most successful capitalist.

Amongst the elite classes, it is also believed to be the best land developer – discounting the number of forced dispossessions and walled-in villages left by this apparent land development process. This, of course, is just a brief overview of organisations directly-owned by the military.

On the side, there has been an expansion of privately-owned military business. In the Musharraf period, a large number of army majors and colonels began to retire and set up the hugely lucrative post-9/11 private security industry. While terrorist wrecked the country as a consequence of the military being paid to run America’s war in Pakistan, retired military officers capitalised on the sense of fear produced in society to fill up their financial coffers.

Another aspect has been the move by ex-military men into opening cattle farms, creating a monopoly over the milk and meat market. The military also tried to change its land relations in 2000, when it tried to move the Okara peasants from tenancy to a lease, and produced a peasant revolt which it attempted to quell using military force.

The Pakistan military man lives a dual identity: one, as a military man; two, as a business man. While army officers continue to insist in public that they prioritise the former; facts on the ground suggest the priority is the later. One of the myths circulated once the ‘sacred cow’ of the milibus became public, was that the military is a good businessman.

But even the little information that filters through suggests that even the myth that the army is a good capitalist is questionable. In 2004 and 2005, the Pakistan government subsidised the Fauji Foundation, worth over Rs 10 billion, by $20 million and $25 million. Out of 96 business run by the military’s four largest foundations, only 9 file public accounts. The answer to the question: how much of a burden military business is on the national economy and tax-base is not known.

So while debate over privatising the Pakistan Railways, PIA, the Steel Mills can take place, the debate on privatising the Fauji Foundation, also taking subsidies, does not take place.
So let us return to the Pacpad. The question to ask is: who authorized the Pakistan Airforce to venture into consumer electronics? Should it not have reported to the civilian government that it was allocating it more money than it needs? If the government were to decide it wanted to develop a Pakistani iPad, then the spare money should go into building a consumer electronics capacity in Pakistan, by either subsidising private sector companies or setting up a public enterprise to undertake R&D in consumer electronics.

The military has no business doing business. The principle is simple enough. But enforcing it will remain a problem as long as civilian governments continue to consider the milibus a ‘sacred cow’ and not put the military budget under parliamentary oversight. As consumers, our position must be to shun the Pacpad, and the like, to let the capacity for public-owned or private enterprise to develop.

 
A lot of militaries are involved in country's economies.

Look at American Defence Sector and its role in American economy.

But yes, we should not become like Egypt where military controls everything and countries goes into shithole!

With more and more efficient governments, economy would become more reliable and Army would be put to its place.
Where Armies Rule
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Gorka Sampedro
By AYESHA SIDDIQA
Published: July 16, 2013

ISLAMABAD — The July 3 coup that ousted Egypt’s first popularly elected president, Mohamed Morsi, reminds us that military putsches can happen anywhere.

Egypt and Pakistan have political similarities. Both have powerful and predatory armies, are heavily militarized and suffer from a weak civil society that does not understand that political liberalization will never occur unless the democratic process — electoral competition, independent oversight, judicial independence — is strengthened.

In both countries, the military and its intelligence apparatus have penetrated most major institutions of society, including political parties.

In Egypt, the military reportedly controls as much as 40 percent of the economy. Its thriving business empire includes interests in tourism, real estate, construction, consumer goods and much more. Army ownership of business enterprises are prevalent in Pakistan and Turkey as well.

In Pakistan the military is a major player in real estate. Major land scandals, involving senior generals and their families, have come to light, but have been brushed under the carpet. For example, the country’s main anti-corruption agency, the National Accountability Bureau, has been stymied in examining the railways department and a military logistics and supply company, reportedly because of intervention by senior army officers.

The disconnect between the military and the global capitalism economy is so severe that military commanders often fail to perceive how their actions undermine growth and development.

In Pakistan’s case, four challenges to the military’s power have been attempted. The first took place after the army’s crushing defeat in the 1971 war with India that led to the creation of Bangladesh (formerly East Pakistan). Attempts by Pakistan’s first popularly elected prime minister, Zulfikar Ali Bhutto, to create institutional restraints on the military’s power failed because of his propensity to use the defense establishment for political purposes.

The second attempt was undertaken by Mr. Bhutto’s daughter Benazir, who served as prime minister twice, from 1988 to 1990 and from 1993 to 1996. Each time, her efforts to build consensus on security issues and cooperate with the army failed, and she was removed on accusations of corruption. (She was assassinated in 2007, shortly after returning from exile amid promises of amnesty.)

Nawaz Sharif, the current prime minister, is in the job for the third time. He served between Ms. Bhutto’s two terms, and again from 1997 to 1999. Each time he tried to weaken the armed forces’ power by co-opting a few leading officers. But after he removed one too many army chiefs, a coup led by Gen. Pervez Musharraf brought down his government in 1999. Mr. Sharif returned to power last month — the first peaceful transition between two democratically elected civilian governments in the nearly 66 years since independence. His approach to the military this time remains to be seen.

A final effort to rein in the military was attempted by Ms. Bhutto’s widower, Asif Ali Zardari, Pakistan’s president since 2008. But his once-powerful post is now largely ceremonial, and his Pakistan Peoples Party lost elections last year to Mr. Sharif’s Pakistan Muslim League-N party. It is only by acquiescing to the military that Mr. Zardari has been able to serve out his five-year term, which many misguided Pakistanis have applauded as a resounding democratic success. But Mr. Zardari only lasted because he was unwilling to follow the same route as his deceased wife and father-in-law. The problem with Mr. Zardari’s strategy is that while it can buy longevity of government, it does not challenge the established order.

It hasn’t even been that successful: The generals haven’t ceased accusing him of wild conspiracies, most recently in 2011-12, when Mr. Zardari’s ambassador to the United States, Husain Haqqani, was accused of seeking American intervention to weaken the Pakistani military. (Forced from his diplomatic post, Mr. Haqqani now teaches at Boston University.)

Pakistan’s history suggests that Egypt’s deposed president, Mr. Morsi, should have first created broad support for civilian rule by improving governance and economic performance before dismissing his defense minister, the military’s chief of staff and other senior officers last year. It is ironic that his choice as defense minister, Gen. Abdul-Fattah el-Sisi, ended up helping to spearhead the July 3 coup.

The political scientists Douglass C. North, John Joseph Wallis and Barry R. Weingast, authors of “Violence and Social Orders,” would likely classify Egypt as a “fragile natural state,” one in which elite groups are unable to arrive at a consensus other than mutually advantageous self-serving behavior. As a result, violence and chaos ensue because elite groups compete for individual control and profit maximization rather than compromise in the public interest.

In societies like Pakistan and Egypt, the military is the state’s primary tool for exercising power, so elites must partner with it, or control it, to eke out the benefits of power.

This allows the military to use divide-and-conquer strategies to stymie potential reformers. Liberal, secular protesters who joined with the Islamist Muslim Brotherhood in 2011 to protest President Hosni Mubarak — to the point where the army pushed him from power — have now turned to the military, this time to oust the Brotherhood.

Military dominance is especially dangerous when it reaches into society, influencing the judiciary, political parties, academia, media and civil society organizations. This has happened in Pakistan as the army has shifted from brute force to soft coercion — bribing different constituencies into obedience.

In Egypt, fear of the Muslim Brotherhood — by secularists, liberals and religious minorities — is already leading many who once condemned the army to accept it as a neutral arbiter. In such an environment, it is unlikely that genuine democratic government will emerge; instead Egypt is likely to experience some form of “military-guided democracy,” as has happened in Indonesia, Pakistan and other states with powerful generals. The tragedy of this pattern is clear: It allows the military to tame democracy, without being accountable to voters or being responsible for improving governance.
 
So, you agree that Pakistan military is deep into profit making businesses... This is not a good sign for a professional army..

Dumb,,,, troll... Fauji Foundation is run by retired officers and civilian executives and was formed as a welfare group for retired militarymen and is one of the most profitable industrial group..
 
Talking about Army being Tink Tank - yes they had been one - but their policies have been effective???
One thing I would like to say is they are evolving - but it will take time - as it is the ideology - the mindset that is the major hurdle. I am not talking about Generals here but Lt.Cols, Major, Brigadier...
 
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