Army interfering in Pakistani politics

[shuakataftab]

Many political parties claim that they do not want army to interfere in political issues
and that army should be on borders doing its job.
Recently there was a long march started by the lawyers and some political parties for the restoration of the deposed Chief justice. the protest became violent when the protesters started beating policemen.
Later that night General Ashfaq pervaiz kiyani talked to Prime minister Yousuf raza gilani and asked him to restore the deposed chief justice immediately. After which the prime minister yousuf raza gilani took the decision to restore the deposed cheif justice in front of the people of Pakistan.
The decision was welcomed by parties like plmn and pti.All these parties which in past claimed that army should not interfere in politics did not even said a word against General Kiyani pressurizing an elected prime minister instead they welcomed the decision
Isn’t this hypocrisy

 

[Patriot]

They don't want army to interfere when they are in Government but when they are in Opposition then it's ok!

 

[third eye]

Many political parties claim that they do not want army to interfere in political issues
and that army should be on borders doing its job.
Recently there was a long march started by the lawyers and some political parties for the restoration of the deposed Chief justice. the protest became violent when the protesters started beating policemen.
Later that night General Ashfaq pervaiz kiyani talked to Prime minister Yousuf raza gilani and asked him to restore the deposed chief justice immediately. After which the prime minister yousuf raza gilani took the decision to restore the deposed cheif justice in front of the people of Pakistan.
The decision was welcomed by parties like plmn and pti.All these parties which in past claimed that army should not interfere in politics did not even said a word against General Kiyani pressurizing an elected prime minister instead they welcomed the decision
Isn’t this hypocrisy

The corner stone of politics is hypocrisy. You cannot be a politician unless you are a hypocrite.

 

[osamaziadxb]

we dont care what the army wants but we dont want to bring Marshalla at any cost

 

[araz]

The fact remains that howsoever you look at it the Armed forces are the most organized unit in Pakistan. They form a fairly robust force which if used appropriately, ie not to take over, can still steer things in the right direction. This is a role thatthey can play and should do so. pakistani political heirarchy is nascent by all standards, and needs a couple of decades to grow up if not longer. The armed forces and hopefully the judiciary in time can look after this institution to steer it in the right direction. This would be best for pakistan in the long run.
WaSalam
Araz

 

[ajpirzada]

when u have got ppl lik zardari running the country then army cant remain at borders. best they can do is to atleast not stage another coup

 

[metalfalcon]

Whatever Pakistan Army did Just recently was for the Good of Pakistan. Army Must not interfere in Politics but no one can stop a COAS to give his advice or suggestion to the Prime Minister or President.

 

[Ratus Ratus]

I am not too sure how you constitution runs, but many have the concept of 3 distinct powers that are separated.
These being:
Legislative - The power to make laws, the parliament as a whole.
Executive - The power to enforce laws – in many democracies this is the ministers of the government of the day, or simply the government of the day.
Judicial – The power to interpret the laws.

Some constitutions have these 3 powers clearly defined as distinct, other have it “as read”.
The above would reflect say the UK approach, while the US system is a little different and there these 3 powers are clearly separated in their constitution.

In theory these are separate, i.e. do not interfere with each other. In simple terms the judicial arm does not get into politics and the legislative/executive does not interfere with the judicial.

The army in normal cases is and reports Executive, ie the government of the day.

In Pakistan unless I am wrong there seems to be a bit of an overlap with these three. Hence at present some level of disquiet. This overlap is either deliberate, or resulting from the fact the formality of separation is not defined in the constitution.
If deliberate it would amount to a total disregard to the concept of separation.

In Pakistan the most stable organisation is the military and biggest component is the Army.
When the separation starts to fail it would be understandable for the Army to provide a hint to the government, executive, that things are out of whack and need fixing.
This in Pakistan’s case would not be classed as interfering but maintaining stability of the democratic process. If one care to note, General Kiyani did not actually remove the government but went to the executive and also his head, the PM, and requested a level of stability to return. This at this point was acceptable as he was being placed in a position of having to maintain the countries security, borders, and at the same maintain internal security possible caused by the judges issue.

Army interfering would amount to the more serious mater of taking over. This had been discussed, by the media and here in these forums at length. If people care to note General Kiyani did not want to interfere in the democratic process, by being forced to take over.
He did not and his actions should be a sound light for guidance of how actions should occur in the future.

Remember General Kiyani is charged with the security of Pakistan.

The big problem is how the people of Pakistan want to have a democratic government, how it should operate and be structured, and what type of politicians you have to elect.
This may be a bigger problem.
You are on a learning curve. Learn from the mistakes. Not sure how but to have now at least realised people power can have an effect.

 

[Bane Blade]

I can't find even one quote saying that they thanked the army for being the factor they were constantly saying that the people of Pakistan are responsible for it, though their were a few people that thanked the army for not declaring emergency and stuff.

 

[shuakataftab]

I can't find even one quote saying that they thanked the army for being the factor they were constantly saying that the people of Pakistan are responsible for it, though their were a few people that thanked the army for not declaring emergency and stuff.

they were quiet on the fact that General kiyani pressurized PM

 

[ajpirzada]

y should they thanks army???? the fact remains that gov doesnt wanna show if army played any role which is a rit thing to do in my view

 

[jeypore]

I am not too sure how you constitution runs, but many have the concept of 3 distinct powers that are separated.
These being:
Legislative - The power to make laws, the parliament as a whole.
Executive - The power to enforce laws – in many democracies this is the ministers of the government of the day, or simply the government of the day.
Judicial – The power to interpret the laws.

Some constitutions have these 3 powers clearly defined as distinct, other have it “as read”.
The above would reflect say the UK approach, while the US system is a little different and there these 3 powers are clearly separated in their constitution.

In theory these are separate, i.e. do not interfere with each other. In simple terms the judicial arm does not get into politics and the legislative/executive does not interfere with the judicial.

The army in normal cases is and reports Executive, ie the government of the day.

In Pakistan unless I am wrong there seems to be a bit of an overlap with these three. Hence at present some level of disquiet. This overlap is either deliberate, or resulting from the fact the formality of separation is not defined in the constitution.
If deliberate it would amount to a total disregard to the concept of separation.

In Pakistan the most stable organisation is the military and biggest component is the Army.
When the separation starts to fail it would be understandable for the Army to provide a hint to the government, executive, that things are out of whack and need fixing.
This in Pakistan’s case would not be classed as interfering but maintaining stability of the democratic process. If one care to note, General Kiyani did not actually remove the government but went to the executive and also his head, the PM, and requested a level of stability to return. This at this point was acceptable as he was being placed in a position of having to maintain the countries security, borders, and at the same maintain internal security possible caused by the judges issue.

Army interfering would amount to the more serious mater of taking over. This had been discussed, by the media and here in these forums at length. If people care to note General Kiyani did not want to interfere in the democratic process, by being forced to take over.
He did not and his actions should be a sound light for guidance of how actions should occur in the future.

Remember General Kiyani is charged with the security of Pakistan.

The big problem is how the people of Pakistan want to have a democratic government, how it should operate and be structured, and what type of politicians you have to elect.
This may be a bigger problem.
You are on a learning curve. Learn from the mistakes. Not sure how but to have now at least realised people power can have an effect.

Good Point Mr. Rafus, but you have not mentioned one of the key component of true democracy were the fundamental problems lies for the Pakistani establishment. That is Commander and Chief, typically in a good democracy the commander and chief are the President and Prime Minister, but in Pakistan that power is given to head of the army. This creates such a polarize democracy that you are seeing today in Pakistan. One clearly knows the frustration United States is facing with Pakistan regarding this issue alone.

 

[kidwaibhai]

i personally think the more mature the pakistani political process gets the less the army will interfere in politics. this although as said above will take some time and i think the army has finally realized that they cannot rule and end up making things worse.

 

[spsk]

i personally think the more mature the pakistani political process gets the less the army will interfere in politics. this although as said above will take some time and i think the army has finally realized that they cannot rule and end up making things worse.

You are wrong, Pakistan politics is mature enough I would say its better than that of many democratic countries . I personally admire some leaders like Zulfikar Ali Bhutto of Pakistani politic s. Real problem lies in the leadership. I think real leaders did not get any chance to come to power .

Even after this many Military interventions to civil administration , I am not sure why GOP do not try to control the powers of Military, Its very easy to bring Military under political leadership.I think the politicians of Pakistan do not "want" to do this and they want military to interfere . I also think politicians of Pakistan do want to intervene Military like how Nawaz brought Mush to power ignoring the other experienced officers.Until and unless some good real leader of Pakistan comes to power and separates Military and Civil admin where Military "reports" to Civil admin and takes care of only external security ,its not going to change.

There are lot of problems if military comes to power,

Corruption would be more than a normal politicians ruling the country

As the military rules its a kind of dictatorship , ruler has to "compromise" on so many things to their "other officers" so keep things moving.

In case of war like "real" emergency,Military leadership cannot play any role on diplomacy which is very much important.

May be Pakistan friends might be knowing the fact why their politicians not willing to do this ,I am not that good Pakistan politics

 

[SurvivoR]

they were quiet on the fact that General kiyani pressurized PM

Pressurized PM? No it was AZ who was holding the entire country as hostage so the perssur on AZ was a good thing for the country.

Thank God Kiyani pressurized AZ otherwise bloody riots would have hit us.


Good work Pakistan Army you brought democracy to a steady path for the time being when so-called democrates were bent upon bringing judiciary and country down.