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Army contemplating military options

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India, China face-off escalates: Army contemplating military options

Army_SL_25042013.jpg


With China not budging from its stand, Indian Army has briefed the Government about various military options that can be exercised to deal with the situation arising out of the intrusion in Ladakh.

The Army has given its inputs on the incursion by Chinese troops to the National Security Advisor-headed China Study Group which includes the Secretaries of the Ministries of Defence, Home and External Affairs, government sources said.

Meanwhile, ignoring India’s demand to revert to a status-quo in Depsang Valley, China on Wednesday firmly stuck to its stand that its troops have not violated the Line of Actual Control (LAC) ‘by a step’ in the Ladakh region.

“I want to reiterate here that the Chinese border troops have been acting in strict compliance with the bilateral agreements and conducting normal patrol on the Chinese side of the LAC. They have never crossed the line by a step”, Chinese Foreign Ministry Spokesperson Hua Chunying told a media briefing.

“The two sides should abide by their consensus which is in the interest of both. The two sides should work together to properly resolve border issues with in the framework of existing mechanisms and create favourable conditions for the bilateral relations”, she said.

This is the first time, after the controversy broke, that China has acknowledged that the issue is being discussed between the two countries.

Meanwhile, Indian Army had rushed its troops from the 5 Ladakh Scouts battalion to the DBO area and they are camping there. The force is also considering the option of dispatching additional troops if the need arises.

On April 15, a platoon-strength contingent of China’s People’s Liberation Army (PLA) had come 10 km inside the Indian territory in Burthe in the DBO sector on the night of April 15 and established a tented post there.
India, China face-off escalates: Army contemplating military options
Indian Army contemplating military options against Chinese troops | idrw.org
 
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Indian army is far too scared to fight the PLA, the PLA knows this too. That's why we entered without any worry.
 
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^^^You entered in 86 as well but left after seeing first wave of IA.
 
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Indian army is far too scared to fight the PLA, the PLA knows this too. That's why we entered without any worry.


In India, its not the Army who calls the shot, its the civilian elected Government.

And Army has already mentioned lot of option on the table in front of National Security Adviser here in New Delhi just yesterday and demands a military action against intruded PLA soldiers, Its the civilian elected goverment who is not marching the order's for so, but instead looking to solve this matter via Diplomatic Talks with Beijing.

Army wants ‘show of force’ , govt not keen

By Rajat Pandit, TNN | 25 Apr, 2013, 09.52AM IST

NEW DELHI: The dominant sentiment coming to the fore in the armed forces is that India should jettison its ultra-defensive mindset towards China, and if it requires "a show of force'' to resolve the ongoing military standoff in Ladakh, then so be it.

India has now sought a third flag meeting at "a higher level'' after the first two meetings on April 18 and April 23 — held at the level of an Indian brigadier \Chinese senior colonel — failed to make any headway in resolving the 10-day-old eyeball-to-eyeball confrontation between rival troops in the Depsang Bulge area of Ladakh.

The Army has also briefed the China Study Group, led by national security adviser ( NSA) Shiv Shankar Menon, on the prevailing face-off in Ladakh and suggested different options, including further troop reinforcements to the region.

Though the "show of force'' option is on the table , the government is unlikely to exercise it to prevent any escalation at this stage. But senior military officers contend the People's Liberation Army is "also unlikely'' to agree to an immediate troop pull-back . "It would amount to a loss of face for them. There has been a clear hardening in China's stand in recent times,'' said an officer.

The intrusion by PLA troops as much as 18 km inside in Ladakh, and rubbing it even further in by setting up a camp in tents there, has only served to "validate'' the argument that India needs to be "tough' ' while dealing with China. China has hugely upgraded its military infrastructure all along the 4,057-km long Line of Actual Control ( LAC) over the last two decades, which allows it to rush troops to the border to outnumber Indian forces by over 3:1.

"But when we belatedly begin to build infrastructure , in terms of roads, posts and re-activating advanced landing grounds or airstrips, the People's Liberation Army jumps up to become even more aggressive ,'' said a senior officer.

"Such a setting up of a camp within our territory has not happened for several years. PLA is clearly provoking us. We have to respond with a show of force since the only language China understands is that of strength. It will, of course, have to be calibrated to ensure things do not spin out of control,'' he added.

Defence minister A K Antony on Wednesday did say the government "will take every step to protect national integrity and security'' , but added that "negotiations are on at various levels to resolve the issue peacefully'' . While agreeing that diplomatic engagement is critical, officers stress India also has to systematically build its "trans-border'' military capabilities and "keep its powder dry'' for any eventuality . "The government has approved certain measures but the systematic modernization required to keep China firmly at bay is happening in an extremely haphazard manner,'' he added.


Army wants ‘show of force’ , govt not keen - The Economic Times
 
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why ischina fighting against everyone. the world is too stressed out and polluted. needs a litle love.
 
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By Maj Gen Sheru Thapliyal

After the debacle of 1962, nothing could have enhanced the self esteem of India Army than the mauling that was given to the Chinese at Nathu La in Sikkim on 11th September 1967 and at Chola on 1st October 1967. It must have come as a ride shock to the Chinese Army and also its political leadership. And by a happy coincidence, the Army leadership which got the better of this eyeball to eyeball confrontation was the same that went on to create Bangladesh in 1971. Maj. Gen Sagat Singh was GOC 17 Mountain Division in Sikkim, Lt Gen Jagjit Aurora was GOC 33 Crops and Sam Manekshaw was the Eastern Army Commander.

It was on 21st July 1967, that I reported to my Unit, which was a mule pack artillery regiment in Sikkim after finishing my young officers course. Those days young officers were made to have their professional mailing by sending them on long range patrols for area familiarization, take part in Khad race to increase their stamina and sending them to remote observations ports on Sikkim – Tibet border for a month.

Having done my share of long range patrols (LPR) and having taken part in Khar race. I was to send to main Sabu La observation post on Sikkim – Tibet Border. This observation post about a kilometer south west of Nathu La. It dominates Nathu La by virtue of taking on higher ground and commands an excellent view of the pass is also to the Chinese defense on the feature known as North shoulder. We were two OPS as Sabu La and had good old radio set 62 and PRC-10 and of course line communications to the guns deployed in the rear.

Nathu La at 14200 feet is an important pass on Tiber – Sikkim border through which passes the old Gangtok – Yatung – Lhasa Trade Route. Although Sikkim – Tiber boundary is well defined by the Anglo – Chinese convention of 17 March 1890, Chinese did not like Sikkim being a protectorate of India at that time and Indian Army being deployed there. During 1965 War between India & Pakistan, the Chinese, in order to pressurise India, gave an ultimatum to India to vacate both Nathu La and Jelep La passes on Sikkim – Tibet border. For some strange reason, 27 Mountain Division, under whose jurisdiction Jelep La was at that time, vacate the Pass which remains under Chinese possession till date.

However, Lt. Gen Sagat Singh, true to form, refused to vacate Nathu La. Incidentally it is at Nathu La where Chinese and India forces are deployed barely thirty yards apart, closest any where on the 4000 km Sino – Indian Border and the border remains undemacrated. Chinese hold the Northern shoulder of the pass while Indian Army holds the Southern shoulder. Two dominating features South and North of Nathu La namely Sebu La and Camel’s back were held by the Indians. Artillery observation post officers deployed on these two features have an excellent observation into Chinese depth areas whereas from Northern shoulder, Chinese have very little observations into Indian depth areas.

This factor proved crucial in the clash that ensued. At the time of the clash, 2 GRENADIERS was holding Nathu La. This battalion was being commander by Lt. Col (Later Brigadier) Rai Singh. The battalion was under command of 112 Mountain Brigade being commanded by Brig MMS Bakshi, MVC part of 17 Mountain Division.

The daily routine at Nathu La used to start with patrolling by both the sides along the perceived border which almost always resulted in arguments. The only one on the Chinese side who could converse in broken English was the Political Commissar who could be recognized by a red patch on his cap. Sentries of both the forces used to stand barely one meter apart in the centre of the Pass which is marked by Nehru Stone, commemorating Pandit Nehru’s trek to Bhutan through Nathu La and Chumbi Valley in 1959.

Argument between the two sides soon changed to pushing and shoving and on 06 September 1967 a scuffle took place in which Political Commissar fell down and broke his spectacles. These incidents only added to the excitement, I developed excellent rapport with Capt. Dagar of 2 GRANEDIERS and a few days before the slash we had gone to Gangtok together on “liberty” to see a movie. Little did I know that within a week, Dagar would be a martyr.

In order to de-escalate the situation it was decided by the Indian military hierarchy to lay a wire in the centre of the Pass from Nathu La to Sebu La to demarcate the perceived border. This task was to be carried out by the Jawans of 70 Field Company of Engineers assisted by a company of 18 Rajpur deployed at Yak La Pass further of North of Nathu La. The wire laying was to commence at first light on the fateful morning of 11 September 1967.

The morning of 11 September 1967dawned with bright sun shine unlike the normal foggy days. 70 fields Company Engineers assisted by Jawans of the company of 18 RAJPUT started erecting long iron pickets from Nathu La to Sebu La along the perceived border while 2 GRENADIERS and Artillery Observation Post Officers at Sebu La and Camel’s back were on alert. Immediately the Chinese Political Commissar, with a section of infantry came to the centre of the Pass where Lt. Col. Rai Singh CO 2 GRENADIERS was standing with his commando platoon. The Commissar asked Lt. Col Rai Singh to stop laying the wire. Orders to Indian Army were clear. They were NOT to blink. An argument started which soon built up into a scuffle. In the ensuing melee, the commissar got roughed up. Thereafter the Chinese went up back to their bunkers and engineers resumed laying the wire.

Within a few minutes of this, a whistle was heard on the Chinese side followed by murderous medium machine gun fire from North shoulder. The pass is completely devoid of cover and the Jawans of 70 Field Company and 18 RAJPUT were caught in the open and suffered heavy casualties which included Col Rai Singh who was wounded. He was awarded MVC later. Two brave officers – Capt. Dagar of 2 GRENADIERS and Major Harbhajan Singh of 18 RAJPUR rallied a few troops and tried to assault the Chinese MMG but both died a heroic death. They were posthumously awarded Veer Chakra and MVC respectively.

2 GRENADIERS opened small arms fire on North shoulder but it was not very effective. Within the first ten minutes, there were nearly seventy dead and scores wounded lying in the open on the pass. Within half an hour, Chinese artillery opened up on the pass as well as in the depth areas but it was mostly prophylactic fire due to lack of observation and failed to do much damage. Meanwhile we as artillery observation post officers asked for artillery fire, permission for which came a little later. Because of excellent domination and observation from Sebu La and Camel’s back, artillery fire was most effective and most of the Chinese bunkers on North shoulder and in depth were completely destroyed and Chinese suffered very heavy casualties which by their own estimates were over 400. The artillery dual thereafter carried on day and night for the next three days Chinese were taught a lesson.

On 14th September, Chinese threatened use of Air Force if shelling did not stop. By then the lesson had been driven home and an uneasy ceasefire came about Chinese, true to form, had pulled over dead bodies to their side of the perceived border at night and accused us of violating the border. Dead bodies were exchanged on 15th September at which time: Sam Aurora and Sagat were present on the Pass.

Every battle has its own share of heroism, faint heartedness, drama and humour. Nathu La Skirmish was no exception. 2 GRENADIERS were initially shaken up due to lass of Capt Dagar and injury to their CO but found their man of the moment in Lieutenant Atar Singh who went round from trench to trench to rally the troops and was later promoted as Captain on the spot.

On the lighter side was one artillery observation post officer my colleague at Sebu La whose radio set was damaged due to shelling and he was out of communication with his guns. He rightly decided to go back to the base at Sherathang in the depth to get another radio set. While he was on his way back, Commander Artillery Brigade was coming up. He stopped the young captain, accused him of running away from the battle and sent him back after reducing him to his substantive rank of a second lieutenant. Casualties could not be evacuated for three days and nights as any move to do so invited a hail of Chinese bullets. Some wounded may well have succumbed to cold and rain. There were awards for bravery as also court martial for cowardice. However, what stood out was the steadfastness of the commanders and bravery of the Jawans and junior officers. Indians refused to blink and the mighty Chinese dragon was made to look ordinary.

No wonder, Sino-Indian border has remained peaceful ever since to the extent that today Chinese soldiers come and ask their Indian counterparts at Nathu La for cigarettes, rum and tea, mail is exchanged twice in a week in a hut constructed specially for this purpose and Border personnel meeting takes place there twice a year. It was my privilege to command the Nathu La Brigade many years later and conduct the first border personnel meeting at Nathu La is 1995. it was done in a starting at that time but how a permanent hut has been constructed for this purpose.
Post Script

Situation again flared up twenty days later when on 01 October 1967 a face off between Indian and China took place at Cho La another pass on Sikkim – Tibet border a few kilometers North of Nathu La. Despite initial casualties, 7/11 GR and 10 JAK RIF stood firm and forced the Chinese to withdraw nearly three kilometers away to a feature named Kam Barracks where they remain deployed till date. Cho la Pass is firmly in Indian hands. Indian Army had got better of Chinese yet again.Every battle has its own share of heroism, faint heartedness, drama and humour. Nathu La Skirmish was no exception. 2 GRENADIERS were initially shaken up due to lass of Capt Dagar and injury to their CO but found their man of the moment in Lieutenant Atar Singh who went round from trench to trench to rally the troops and was later promoted as Captain on the spot.

On the lighter side was one artillery observation post officer my colleague at Sebu La whose radio set was damaged due to shelling and he was out of communication with his guns. He rightly decided to go back to the base at Sherathang in the depth to get another radio set. While he was on his way back, Commander Artillery Brigade was coming up. He stopped the young captain, accused him of running away from the battle and sent him back after reducing him to his substantive rank of a second lieutenant. Casualties could not be evacuated for three days and nights as any move to do so invited a hail of Chinese bullets. Some wounded may well have succumbed to cold and rain. There were awards for bravery as also court martial for cowardice. However, what stood out was the steadfastness of the commanders and bravery of the Jawans and junior officers. Indians refused to blink and the mighty Chinese dragon was made to look ordinary.

No wonder, Sino-Indian border has remained peaceful ever since to the extent that today Chinese soldiers come and ask their Indian counterparts at Nathu La for cigarettes, rum and tea, mail is exchanged twice in a week in a hut constructed specially for this purpose and Border personnel meeting takes place there twice a year. It was my privilege to command the Nathu La Brigade many years later and conduct the first border personnel meeting at Nathu La is 1995. it was done in a starting at that time but how a permanent hut has been constructed for this purpose.
Post Script

Situation again flared up twenty days later when on 01 October 1967 a face off between Indian and China took place at Cho La another pass on Sikkim – Tibet border a few kilometers North of Nathu La. Despite initial casualties, 7/11 GR and 10 JAK RIF stood firm and forced the Chinese to withdraw nearly three kilometers away to a feature named Kam Barracks where they remain deployed till date. Cho la Pass is firmly in Indian hands. Indian Army had got better of Chinese yet again.

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/milita...ese-were-given-bloody-nose.html#ixzz2RSlsIuyN

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Right Now

Do immediate action to purchase necessary weapons like Boforce Guns, Howitzers etc.
Its true we are not ready for a war.
Act of Chinese is Provocative and India need to take appropriate steps.
Indias are with the Antony. Just go ahead Antony for Right, best and brave decisions.
 
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As I said in another thread there are a lots of ways other than bloodshed.
1. Surround the Chinese tent with our posts.
2. Make them listen 24X7 our selected crappiest music (e.g :Altaf Raja songs)
3. Offer them our hospitality by offering chowmein prepared with channa masala, sambar powder etc.
4. During night put up big screens and show the our selected heavy mallu movies (whole night)
5. Talk to them in different Indian languages everyday.
Any further Idea? This will definitely **** them.
Any way this is summer, so they are there. I guess we will have to wait for winter
(till UPA govt. goes))
 
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i think we should setup a IT jobfair and recruit all of them.
In indian IT, "Trespassers will be recruited"

As I said in another thread there are a lots of ways other than bloodshed.
1. Surround the Chinese tent with our posts.
2. Make them listen 24X7 our selected crappiest music (e.g :Altaf Raja songs)
3. Offer them our hospitality by offering chowmein prepared with channa masala, sambar powder etc.
4. During night put up big screens and show the our selected heavy mallu movies (whole night)
5. Talk to them in different Indian languages everyday.
Any further Idea? This will definitely **** them.
Any way this is summer, so they are there. I guess we will have to wait for winter
(till UPA govt. goes))

- offer them indian citizenship and tell them that they can have 2 children if they want
- all soldiers will dress up like priyanka chopra dressed as a a chinese in that movie. and thentell hem we are also like you only
 
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I'd welcome our Jawan's Move, they're the real Guardian of our Country than this Blood sucking Politicians.... those short guys say they've not violated our territory but at the same time in flag meeting they demand India Demolish certain Bunkers in order to remove its forces from occupied place.... We must need to show them the force, they think We wouldn't do a thing and it would Deferentially encourage them in future as their powers grow,... Govrnt must take a military step if Diplomacy fails....
 
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As I said in another thread there are a lots of ways other than bloodshed.
1. Surround the Chinese tent with our posts.
2. Make them listen 24X7 our selected crappiest music (e.g :Altaf Raja songs)
3. Offer them our hospitality by offering chowmein prepared with channa masala, sambar powder etc.
4. During night put up big screens and show the our selected heavy mallu movies (whole night)
5. Talk to them in different Indian languages everyday.
Any further Idea? This will definitely **** them.
Any way this is summer, so they are there. I guess we will have to wait for winter
(till UPA govt. goes))

1.throw **** on their tents (literally). so no sanitary problem for the indians.
2. every morning our loudspeakers should blare away chinese pop songs while our soldiers cud dance butt-naked (only butt, the butt facing towards the chinese)
 
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Man oh man. It is hilarious some of the things Indians are suggesting. You are so scared to use force against the PLA because you and I both know the ending of that. India experienced it in 1962, I don't think modern India is ready to experience something similar or even worse.
 
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