Saturday, December 28, 2024
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Arjun Mk.II Tank Clears All Army Trials, Service Next Year

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Your points have too much error in too many areas.



So. in the sense Leopard and Markheva, both are obsolete. Both are some 40 yrs old.

Its not about the age, its about the roles these tanks are supposed to play. India plans to induct a huge number of T-90s by 2020. Almost 2000 if you believe the media reports. The T-90 and Arjun have more or less the same capability, plus the Arjun is heavier which means extra costs in infrastructure. Why to go through the trouble of inducting a new tank when you already have the T-90?

USA cancelled commanche because they already had drones. Arjun does not make sense because India already fields the T-90.

Please go through Chinese tank generation and there orgins you will find.Even Chinese nukes are Created on the Scientific Data & Proliferation from the Russians.

Pakistani weapons are designed and built by China and Chinese weapons are built on Russian designs. For some reason he is super pissed at me for stating the obvious.
 
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Its not your fault. Many Indians are too blinded by nationalist pride to see the obvious.

The last proper standard rifle IA had after the SMLE was the 7.62x51mm FN-FAL. It was a good and accurate rifle and was much favored by NATO in the early 70s. But then the world had moved on to the 5.56x45 mm round which was lighter hence more stable, more rounds could be fired and was able to be fired at full auto, something impossible for the .30 caliber.

Further to this DRDO was sent a proposal for a new rifle in the 80s and the DRDO set to work at their own leisurely pace. Meanwhile in Sri Lanka the army learnt a bitter lesson that the FN-FAL had passed its usefulness and the IA needs a new lighter weapon. The FN-FAL was proving disastrous in guerrilla and counter-insurgency operations in Jaffna but the DRDO rifle was yet to be introduced. The IA purchased many Romanian kalashnikovs as an ad-hoc measure.

Around 94-95 the INSAS finally made its debut but to the dismay of the IA it was not what they had expected. The rifle was shorter in length but weighed almost the same as the FN-FAL, had 20 rounds ammo just like the FN-FAL and provided no advantage of using the 5.56 mm round which was the main reason why the army wanted to field 5.56 mm rifles. The IA was handed a 5.56 version of the 7.62mm FN-FAL rifle. It could not fire full auto like other 5.56 mm rifles, it did not carry a standard 30 round mag like 5.56 mm rifles worldwide and it weighed as much as a 7.62x51mm rifle minus the punching power.

If you visit the archives and read then you will find the IA criticised the INSAS during Kargil conflict.

Arjun is the most advanced MBT today? From what analysis have you come to this conclusion, please elaborate on this. How does the Arjun fare against the mighty Leo 2, Abram, Challenger 2, LeClerc and Merkava tanks which are universally considered the best in the world of MBT?

What, I repeat, WHAT advantage does the Arjun provide over the T-90 that IA should pay more for a tank that is too heavy and difficult to mobilise? How is the army supposed to deploy a 58 ton tank when infrastructure of rail, bridges etc. have trouble supporting anything over 50 tons? What is the power-to-weight ratio of the Arjun? How many T-90s can be purchased for the price of one Arjun?

The T-90 is already delivering whatever the needs of IA are. And India is fielding 1500 T-90s as of now. So instead of replacing all 1500 T-90s with 1500 Arjuns it would make more sense to add another 1500 T-90s to the mix. Why waste so much time and money on a tank that is the same as the one currently fielded by the IA?

Commanche was a high-tech stealth helicopter built by USA but it was scrapped later because the US army found it obsolete. Now you might wonder why was a stealth chopper considered obsolete, after all stealth age has just started right? Because the missions required for the Commanche was already fulfiled by cheaper, simpler, easy-to-use drones.

In the same way, Arjun is obsolete because whatever Arjun can do is already being done and done beautifully by the T-90.



You are welcome kid.

If only you could read and understand English language you would have understood what I have written. It is too much for me to explain to you the nuances of the English language but let me repeat what I said. AK is the REPACKAGED version of the T-55. Which means kid it is the T-55 tank with simple upgrades.

Now you won't be knowing that the so-called al khalid tank is a 100% chinese design, would you? Which means the tank was designed and built in china with zero pakistani inputs minus the name. The Chinese in turn designed the AK tank from the Type-96 tank which again in turn was designed from the Type-85III tank which is the Chinese tag for T-54/55 tank.

So you replace the 100mm gun with a 125mm gun, put on some extra armor and a new engine while the design and parameters remain the same. Maybe that is why China is not so keen on inducting the AK which according to you is a brand-new cutting-edge specimen of space-age technology. The proud owners of AK are Pakistan, Bangladesh and Burma. All super-powers who cannot afford more modern and sophisticated tanks of 21st century.


1 Question though if the INSAS was such a disaster that you claim why was it ordered in such large numbers by the Army,why couldn't they could just go for more AK's or any other variant of it
 
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akistani weapons are designed and built by China and Chinese weapons are built on Russian designs. For some reason he is super pissed at me for stating the obvious.
He Flame-baiting :azn::azn: he Knows everything.Don't Engage him he will Get you Ban:whistle::whistle:
 
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Its not about the age, its about the roles these tanks are supposed to play. India plans to induct a huge number of T-90s by 2020. Almost 2000 if you believe the media reports. The T-90 and Arjun have more or less the same capability, plus the Arjun is heavier which means extra costs in infrastructure. Why to go through the trouble of inducting a new tank when you already have the T-90?

USA cancelled commanche because they already had drones. Arjun does not make sense because India already fields the T-90.
I said earlier this thing, but I think I need to repeat myself.

The doctrine of IA changed long ago, now there is no use of Sunderji doctrine. Our goal is not to reach Islamabad or tear apart Pak. But jus a 2-3 days high intensity offensive, and then dug down to defend that territory, and force Pak for negotiations or ceasefire. Thats all.

The Arjun is not going to use in NE or on China Border, even T-90 cant be deployed there.

Now, dont tell me there is logistic problem, the Indian railway is based on broad gauge, and tell you what. The Punjab and Rajhsthan are two state which is well connected by railway.
 
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@Indian Patriot this is the Type-85IIIP (Pak modified variant built under licsense by HIT) from which T-96 series were based on :


T85.jpg
ra3ewi.jpg




You claim is a Chinese tag for T-55 aka Type 59:

t66.jpg


images.jpg


:rofl:

He Flame-baiting :azn::azn: he Knows everything.Don't Engage him he will Get you Ban:whistle::whistle:

:lol: epic... why even make retarded claims than?
 
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I said earlier this thing, but I think I need to repeat myself.

The doctrine of IA changed long ago, now there is no use of Sunderji doctrine. Our goal is not to reach Islamabad or tear apart Pak. But jus a 2-3 days high intensity offensive, and then dug down to defend that territory, and force Pak for negotiations or ceasefire. Thats all.

The Arjun is not going to use in NE or on China Border, even T-90 cant be deployed there.

Now, dont tell me there is logistic problem, the Indian railway is based on broad gauge, and tell you what. The Punjab and Rajhsthan are two state which is well connected by railway.

The army doctrine is for the army to decide. The current emphasis is on cold start which means rapid deployment in simple terms. Which further simplified would mean army has to deploy at very short notice. This was learned after Op Parakram in 2001.

For obvious reasons IA cannot store its hardware close to the border. Arty, tanks, APC etc. will have to be mobilised from across the country. So how do you suggest moving in 58 ton tanks over railway tracks and bridges that can handle a maximum of 50 tons? Are you going to re-structure the entire infrastructure of the country for a tank? Where are the lakhs of crores that will be needed?

Broad gauge or not there is a limit to the weight they can stand. Number two railway lines are also laid over bridges, will the bridge be able to handle that much weight? Tanks are compact objects by comparison. A Arjun weighs 58 tons. How much pressure will an Arjun be applying per sq. inch? How many Arjuns can a train carry and how much will that weigh?

Plus the Arjun costs more than the T-90. The T-90 can perform every function the Arjun can. So why Arjun.

I have been explaining the same things over and over again. If you don't like to read what I am saying then feel free to believe in your opinion.
 
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The army doctrine is for the army to decide. The current emphasis is on cold start which means rapid deployment in simple terms. Which further simplified would mean army has to deploy at very short notice. This was learned after Op Parakram in 2001.

For obvious reasons IA cannot store its hardware close to the border. Arty, tanks, APC etc. will have to be mobilised from across the country. So how do you suggest moving in 58 ton tanks over railway tracks and bridges that can handle a maximum of 50 tons? Are you going to re-structure the entire infrastructure of the country for a tank? Where are the lakhs of crores that will be needed?

Broad gauge or not there is a limit to the weight they can stand. Number two railway lines are also laid over bridges, will the bridge be able to handle that much weight? Tanks are compact objects by comparison. A Arjun weighs 58 tons. How much pressure will an Arjun be applying per sq. inch? How many Arjuns can a train carry and how much will that weigh?

Plus the Arjun costs more than the T-90. The T-90 can perform every function the Arjun can. So why Arjun.

I have been explaining the same things over and over again. If you don't like to read what I am saying then feel free to believe in your opinion.

Agree with what you say

Some "enhancement"-

Arjun is 68 tons.

Arjun is contradictory to rapid deployment. It is a massive burden on IA.

We can buy 4 T-90's for cost of 1 Arjun. Arjun offers nothing more than T-90.
 
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T-55 aaj ke standard ke hisaab se cute lagta hai badaa

Many countries are selling T-55 ugrades who look badass and lethal but Radical upgrades...

Ukranian T-55M8A2 Typhoon:

t666.jpg




Slovenian :


m55s1.jpg


T-55M5 (Ob'yekt 155M5) Russia:


T-55AM_vttv_omsk_2007_001.jpg



Zarrar Pakistan:

AL-ZARRAR-1.jpg
Al-Zarrar-tank.jpg
5be00d225db82dea57138146007c33f21.jpg
dvlydd.jpg
Al Zarrar Bangladesh tank.JPG
 
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So how do you suggest moving in 58 ton tanks over railway tracks and bridges that can handle a maximum of 50 tons? Are you going to re-structure the entire infrastructure of the country for a tank? Where are the lakhs of crores that will be needed?

Broad gauge or not there is a limit to the weight they can stand. Number two railway lines are also laid over bridges, will the bridge be able to handle that much weight? Tanks are compact objects by comparison. A Arjun weighs 58 tons. How much pressure will an Arjun be applying per sq. inch? How many Arjuns can a train carry and how much will that weigh?
Lol, Seriously, You know how much IR handing freight load/wagon normally. From around 50t-80t, anywhere according to the availability of locomotives, and amount of delivery.

Btw track handling load is calculated on axle load, and not on per sq. inch.
 
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The army doctrine is for the army to decide. The current emphasis is on cold start which means rapid deployment in simple terms. Which further simplified would mean army has to deploy at very short notice. This was learned after Op Parakram in 2001.

For obvious reasons IA cannot store its hardware close to the border. Arty, tanks, APC etc. will have to be mobilised from across the country. So how do you suggest moving in 58 ton tanks over railway tracks and bridges that can handle a maximum of 50 tons? Are you going to re-structure the entire infrastructure of the country for a tank? Where are the lakhs of crores that will be needed?

Broad gauge or not there is a limit to the weight they can stand. Number two railway lines are also laid over bridges, will the bridge be able to handle that much weight? Tanks are compact objects by comparison. A Arjun weighs 58 tons. How much pressure will an Arjun be applying per sq. inch? How many Arjuns can a train carry and how much will that weigh?

Plus the Arjun costs more than the T-90. The T-90 can perform every function the Arjun can. So why Arjun.

I have been explaining the same things over and over again. If you don't like to read what I am saying then feel free to believe in your opinion.

Bullshit. For someone with so little depth of understanding, you certainly have the air of an expert.

Firstly, The entire national road network is being upgraded to 70-T-R class, and I believe the process is almost completed in the western regions. So no, you wont be spending lakhs of crores of your money on upgrading the bridges.

Secondly, The bridges and tracks, infact everything for Trains are designed to carry much more than mere 50 tons or 70 tons. I can pull out official data, if you want me to back it up.

Thirdly, Arjun has less ground pressure than a T-90, despite the difference in size and weight. Which means, the Arjun can go where your dear T-90 can't.

Fourthly, The T-55, up-gunned with a 120 mm cannon can do the work of a T-90, as per your logic. Why go for the T-90 then?

If the army wants to go for the western concept of armored operations, and emphasize crew survival, it has no choice but to go for heavier tanks, or a smaller crew component.
 
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Lol, Seriously, You know how much IR handing freight load/wagon normally. From around 50t-80t, anywhere according to the availability of locomotives, and amount of delivery.

Btw track handling load is calculated on axle load, and not on per sq. inch.

There is a difference between 80 tons spread on a wide area and 80 tons spread over a confined area.

The army generals are not civilians like you. Why don;t you send them an email saying they are wrong?
 
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