Arjun-II MBT development l Updates & discussion.

[Omega007]

Hmm there is something which i dinn knew. But a question how can a lateral spin affect the perpetrator rod ??? A normal common sense tells me that the entire round will spin on an axis which actually lies inside perpetrator rod . And yes u are true, riffled barrel dose need a complex shell design. Also u clarified one of my long standing doubts, about why dose even rifled barrel ammo needs to be fin assisted.

And about 120mm penetrators, yes those rounds cannot be used just off the shelf but i thought it was more to do with auto-loader carousel . ..

Because the rod is too thin at its cross section,it will tend to wobble at its lateral axis or get twisted along its longitudinal axis and might even break into pieces in mid air even before making an actual impact!!And as I said,lateral spin can only stabilize a projectile with a L ratio of 8-9:1,not more than that (I made a mistake on my above post when I had set the value at 6:1).

And no,the entire round doesn't spin........it should not spin!!The developers have to take special care so that the rod doesn't spin at all or the fins won't work.Just imagine the flight characteristics of an arrow,it's pretty much similar to a FSAPDS penetrator.

And lastly,no,it is not because of the carousels. Arjun tanks do not sport a carousel,so there is no question of compatibility issues.The sole reason is that the commercially available FSAPDS rounds are designed for 120mm smooth barrel guns and hence do not have those bearings fitted inside the sabots,which means they have no means of stopping those penetrators from spinning and breaking apart mid flight along its lenghth.You could still use the penetrators though,but the sabots has to be changed.

 

[Omega007]

I wish to hear that story.........

Alright then.As far as I have heard,the Iraqi T 72M was in a stationary position,totally dug in like they frequently used their tanks as stationary gun positions.What happened was something like this -
The forward platoon,close to that T 72M had an FOO (forward observation officer,guys that direct artillery fire support).He directed the fire of that Challenger MkI through the standard 'triangulation' method.The Challenger started firing with HESH rounds and eventually scored a hit on the upper glacis of that stranded T 72M and it caught fire.All the while the T 72M never moved an inch!!So that is pretty much it.The Challenger neither used an FSAPDS round nor hit it in a single well aimed shot.

Lets make one thing clear here,you can not hit something beyond 3.5-4 km with an FSAPDS round (even that is too much a stretch) even with the most sophisticated FCS due to the dispersal of the rods beyond 3 km.What those Brits achieved is very rare and I wouldn't count on these things if I were you.

 

[kṣamā]

Because the rod is too thin at its cross section,it will tend to wobble at its lateral axis or get twisted along its longitudinal axis and might even break into pieces in mid air even before making an actual impact!!And as I said,lateral spin can only stabilize a projectile with a L ratio of 8-9:1,not more than that (I made a mistake on my above post when I had set the value at 6:1).

And no,the entire round doesn't spin........it should not spin!!The developers have to take special care so that the rod doesn't spin at all or the fins won't work.Just imagine the flight characteristics of an arrow,it's pretty much similar to a FSAPDS penetrator.

And lastly,no,it is not because of the carousels. Arjun tanks do not sport a carousel,so there is no question of compatibility issues.The sole reason is that the commercially available FSAPDS rounds are designed for 120mm smooth barrel guns and hence do not have those bearings fitted inside the sabots,which means they have no means of stopping those penetrators from spinning and breaking apart mid flight along its lenghth.You could still use the penetrators though,but the sabots has to be changed.

hmm.. Nice info. Got a source for that. I would need that to be quoted somewhere else. Also I find it strange that a solid tungsten rod being broken by a vobble. Anyways thanks.

 

[Omega007]

Yep,I have a source but it's not free.......you have to buy that book and let me warn you,it's not cheap!!I'll tell you the name if you want to.

By the way,the wobble alone doesn't break those rods,it actually makes the rods totally inaccurate. The breakage happens due to the thin cross section and a property called adiabatic shear.

 

[Dazzler]

Haha,fucking Chimpanzee gone rabid.What happened,forgot to take your daily dosage of camel piss and dog serum today??And as we are gonna be talking about mother,I'm curious,do you always f*ck your mother before coming to PDF??Ha Kiddo??



Not really.In this case you are wrong.

Mods....

Why is this guy not banned yet? Look at the word selection !!

@Oscar @Fulcrum15 @Manticore @TaimiKhan

 

[The_Sidewinder]

any new updates about Arjun Mkii

 

[desimorty]

Lets make one thing clear here,you can not hit something beyond 3.5-4 km with an FSAPDS round (even that is too much a stretch) even with the most sophisticated FCS due to the dispersal of the rods beyond 3 km.What those Brits achieved is very rare and I wouldn't count on these things if I were you.

Source: Arjun-II MBT development l Updates & discussion. | Page 29

Firing sabot rounds beyond 4-5 km? a round that banks on kinetic energy...not a good idea. Hesh yes. at long ranges definitely, doesn't require kinetic energy as much. I've yet to decide if HESH was a choice by IA for PA bunkers/pillers or something DRDO had to develop because they didn't know how to make a smoothbore.

 

[Dazzler]

Firing sabot rounds beyond 4-5 km? a round that banks on kinetic energy...not a good idea. Hesh yes. at long ranges definitely, doesn't require kinetic energy as much. I've yet to decide if HESH was a choice by IA for PA bunkers/pillers or something DRDO had to develop because they didn't know how to make a smoothbore.

HESH was/ is utilized with 105mm rifled guns by both sides to good effect for bunkers and fortifications and IA has plenty of them, hence they asked for 120mm version too, much as LAHAT is originally a 105mm round, converted into 120mm compatible one.

Neither of these rounds that fall under heavy explosives catevory, are considered as tank specific, but apfsds penetrators are.

 

[Lord Of Gondor]

Neither of these rounds that fall under heavy explosives catevory, are considered as tank specific, but apfsds penetrators are.

The AT in LAHAT stands for Anti Tank.

 

[Dazzler]

The AT in LAHAT stands for Anti Tank.

really??

High Explosive Anti Tank rounds are used at long ranges against conventional steel or rolled homogenous armour but their effect is questionable against relatively thick armour. They are useless against a composite layered armour.

 

[Lord Of Gondor]

Real mature.
I can counter with more emoticons without actually conveying anything,just like you.
I countered your stupid argument where in you said

Neither of these rounds that fall under heavy explosives catevory, are considered as tank specific

even though the LAHAT is used as an Anti-Tank GM by Israel,India and Germany on their respective MBT's.

 

[Dazzler]

Real mature.
I can counter with more emoticons without actually conveying anything,just like you.
I countered your stupid argument where in you said even though the LAHAT is used as an Anti-Tank GM by Israel,India and Germany on their respective MBT's.

yes even then it cannot defeat a composite layered armour module. ATGM are good against rather simple armour types as explained above.

 

[Badbadman]

You do realise that mbt 2000(VT-1A), which the AK is a derivative....was specially made for piss poor export customers

piss poor customers
take it easy on these madrassa degree holders man.

 

[FNFAL]

piss poor customers
take it easy on these madrassa degree holders man.

Do you know ppl on this forum have actually had multiple mental orgasms thinking about the VT-1 taking out a M1A2 Abram
Hows that for lunacy?

 

[Badbadman]

Do you know ppl on this forum have actually had multiple mental orgasms thinking about the VT-1 taking out a M1A2 Abram
Hows that for lunacy?

Mental orgasms that they have for sure here.