Argument: The US is using the threat of sanctions to compel India to purchase US weapons instead of

[SrNair]

P.S. Raghavan, Convener, National Security Advisory Board, told The Hindu that the U.S. could not seek to sustain a strategic partnership with India while trying to weaken India at the same time.


Good luck with that one....
I have to say India has done a fine job so far on the diplomatic front, but it's only a matter of time before things like start to rear their head.

If they try to play their games here ,we will ignore them like we did 44 years ago .
The article itself says that we have options from France to Israel.
Russia is our privileged friend perhaps more than US .
And there is reason for our rebooting of relations with China also.
There is no shortage of weapons in world .
If the relation with US scuttled because of S 400 .
So be it ,we dont care .If Modi did opposite to that general interests we will kick him out from govt .
P.S: Attain self reliance in MIC ASAP.
We dont need this reliance not any more

I have said it many times. Sooner or later India will have to choose and we are slowly seeing the effects.

With the US you can't have it both ways.

For India ,India is first .
Except in MIC we already surpassed Russia and US is not that strong to provoke India .
Not any more.

US will provide India and some other countries a waiver under their CAATSA law.There is no other choice.

India only .
If I am not wrong , except India and China no others going to use S400.
We bought some systems from US because that is best in the world.
Had it been from Russia with same quality we would have been only chose Russian.

S 400 is unique and best .We will buy it

 

[Shamsher1990]

Yeah we all know how much you can?
https://www.nytimes.com/2000/07/13/world/israel-drops-plan-to-sell-air-radar-to-china-military.html

A certain Green Pine radar comes to mind.

 

[Novice09]

P.S. Raghavan, Convener, National Security Advisory Board, told The Hindu that the U.S. could not seek to sustain a strategic partnership with India while trying to weaken India at the same time.


Good luck with that one....
I have to say India has done a fine job so far on the diplomatic front, but it's only a matter of time before things like start to rear their head.

Russia is like that friend for us who has given its blood for our survival... just a call away... just one hug and tears will melt the hearts...

while US is that office friend who will enjoy elsewhere once the office hours are over...

No.

Russia is willing to sell S-400 to India only if India would buy FGFA too.

US is not willing to sell F-35 to India until India cancels the FGFA deal with Russia.

Modi has decided to cancel FGFA deal with Russia to procure F-16+F-35 from US. This means Russia would no longer be selling S-400 to India.

Actually the problem is not US... but denial by Russia to share the technology and level of cooperation during the development of FGFA... we are not ready to pay till things are in writing...

We have seen some real cost escalation in past and we are finding ways to not repeat those mistakes...

 

[Dash]

S 400 or even F 16-18-35 is not THAT important for India now. So India should not be worried nor USA. The diplomat has rightly pointed out so.

Good job by us.

 

[swnjo]

No F-35 or any US fighters for India, never.

 

[PurpleStone]

Actually the problem is not US... but denial by Russia to share the technology and level of cooperation during the development of FGFA... we are not ready to pay till things are in writing...

We have seen some real cost escalation in past and we are finding ways to not repeat those mistakes..

The problem is the IAF mindset which is being encouraged by Modi government.

IAF would oppose induction of Tejas even as MIG-21s kept crashing.

IAF would pay $112.80 million for Rafale but would not pay $100 million for PAK-FA.

A bird in hand is better than 2 in the bush.

Rather than chasing F-35s from US post 2030 it is better to induct PAK-FA which is available to India today.

S 400 or even F 16-18-35 is not THAT important for India now. So India should not be worried nor USA. The diplomat has rightly pointed out so.

Good job by us.

Of course we have to play down the significance as neither Russia is willing to sell S-400 nor US is wiling to sell F-35. US does not even want to share the details about F-35 unless India officially cancels the FGFA deal with Russia.

Now that Modi has succumbed to US pressure and cancelled the FGFA deal with Russia, US may be sharing the details about F-35 but they would not be available for sale to India at least until 2030 o later.

Modi has given up the bird in hand to chase the one in the bush. Modi has compromised India's security.

 

[RPK]

Try it and see the response from US. Only Israel and Turkey allowed to add or modify.

we already did it way back in 2010. read the article

 

[waz]

Guys please check if such threads are already running. I shall merge this with the one in the Indian defence section.

 

[Dash]

Now that Modi has succumbed to US pressure and cancelled the FGFA deal with Russia, US may be sharing the details about F-35 but they would not be available for sale to India at least until 2030 o later.

Thats your assumption. A. Modi hasnt cancelled FGFA deal with Russia, Its the IAF that lost interest some 2 years back. The trend started when IAF said they will not go for a twin seat version(original deal was all twin seats) and then they took a round turn again saying that the bird is not stealthy and there are shortcomings in almost every aspects of stealth( which is true to a large extent). Modi govt actyally set up a panel in MoD to evaluate the possibility of going with FGFA and the panel suggested to go ahead on the basis of ToT, work share, technical knowledge that will be gained to help us in our own AMCA.

Modi govt still wants the fighter, but Russia is not willing to give us the 25% work share as promised earlier. So its in a limbo and most likley it will be scrapped as its taking us nowhere. Whether its good or bad thats another debate.

Modi has given up the bird in hand to chase the one in the bush. Modi has compromised India's security.

India's current national security lies in developing its own aircraft and thats the path we are taking after so many years of half(may be quarter)-hearted attempts by prev govts. We are rightly on track with Tejas MK1A, Tejas Mk2 and AMCA. Modi is doing the right thing here.

 

[faithfulguy]

Thats your assumption. A. Modi hasnt cancelled FGFA deal with Russia, Its the IAF that lost interest some 2 years back. The trend started when IAF said they will not go for a twin seat version(original deal was all twin seats) and then they took a round turn again saying that the bird is not stealthy and there are shortcomings in almost every aspects of stealth( which is true to a large extent). Modi govt actyally set up a panel in MoD to evaluate the possibility of going with FGFA and the panel suggested to go ahead on the basis of ToT, work share, technical knowledge that will be gained to help us in our own AMCA.

Modi govt still wants the fighter, but Russia is not willing to give us the 25% work share as promised earlier. So its in a limbo and most likley it will be scrapped as its taking us nowhere. Whether its good or bad thats another debate.



India's current national security lies in developing its own aircraft and thats the path we are taking after so many years of half(may be quarter)-hearted attempts by prev govts. We are rightly on track with Tejas MK1A, Tejas Mk2 and AMCA. Modi is doing the right thing here.

If India is developing its own aircraft, it should not beg others to provide tech. As of now, India have zero fifth gen knowledge. It was hoping to compensate with PAKFA knowledge.

Indian brass was correct that PAKFA is not as stealthy. But it’s still way beyond what India can develop in the next ten years. The only way this decision to ditch Russia make sense is if India is getting in line for F-35.

In effect AMCA is dead. At least in the next twenty years. The earliest AMCA first flight with FGFA tech transfer should be 2025-2030. Now, India would be lucky to get anything going by 2040. So India might as well shelve AMCA and give you guys a dose or reality.

No F-35 or any US fighters for India, never.

By canceling FGFA cooperation, India is getting in line forF-35. No other explanation. India knows it has no ability to develop a stealth fighter. The only other option out there is F-35.

 

[Dash]

If India is developing its own aircraft, it should not beg others to provide tech. As of now, India have zero fifth gen knowledge. It was hoping to compensate with PAKFA knowledge.

Please point me to a link where we "BEGGED" others for tech. The PAKFA contribution was pegged at $25 billion. And thats called partnering and not begging, so give me some links where we "BEGGED".

Indian brass was correct that PAKFA is not as stealthy. But it’s still way beyond what India can develop in the next ten years. The only way this decision to ditch Russia make sense is if India is getting in line for F-35.

India has not asked for F-35 and nor its interested in. The solo reason going for PAKFA was getting to know at least 25% in all aspects of stealth tech.

In effect AMCA is dead. At least in the next twenty years. The earliest AMCA first flight with FGFA tech transfer should be 2025-2030. Now, India would be lucky to get anything going by 2040. So India might as well shelve AMCA and give you guys a dose or reality.

AMCA is still live and kicking. An initial govt approval has been given and funds has been released. We are happy if we lag 50 years from the world. But we will do it.

 

[RoyalEnfieldBullet500]

Bombs, bullets, rocks, nails, fists will not hurt you but words will kill you. Advice to the Hazara from me.

Kaptan hope you were a hazara in Pakistan...then you wouldn't be saying that.

 

[INDIAISM]

The problem is the IAF mindset which is being encouraged by Modi government.

IAF would oppose induction of Tejas even as MIG-21s kept crashing.

IAF would pay $112.80 million for Rafale but would not pay $100 million for PAK-FA.

A bird in hand is better than 2 in the bush.

Rather than chasing F-35s from US post 2030 it is better to induct PAK-FA which is available to India today.



Of course we have to play down the significance as neither Russia is willing to sell S-400 nor US is wiling to sell F-35. US does not even want to share the details about F-35 unless India officially cancels the FGFA deal with Russia.

Now that Modi has succumbed to US pressure and cancelled the FGFA deal with Russia, US may be sharing the details about F-35 but they would not be available for sale to India at least until 2030 o later.

Modi has given up the bird in hand to chase the one in the bush. Modi has compromised India's security.

Firstly, it was under Modi that IAF commited to buy 40 LCA Mk1 and 83 Mk1A.....

Secondly , who told you that Pak Fa will cost 100 Million $ did you know that in 2010 UPA Govt paid 4.3 Billion $ for 42 Su 30Mki.....


:- So just tell me how can you even think of buying PakFa for 100 Million $ in 2020 when you are paying 102 Million $ for Su 30Mki in 2010....

 

[PurpleStone]

Firstly, it was under Modi that IAF commited to buy 40 LCA Mk1 and 83 Mk1A.....

Secondly , who told you that Pak Fa will cost 100 Million $ did you know that in 2010 UPA Govt paid 4.3 Billion $ for 42 Su 30Mki.....


:- So just tell me how can you even think of buying PakFa for 100 Million $ in 2020 when you are paying 102 Million $ for Su 30Mki in 2010....

And how did people put $200 million as piece when no one knows what would be the final cost as the product is still being developed.