Are you from martial race ?

[Yaduveer]

Martial race was a designation created by Army officials of British India after the mutiny of 1857, where they classified each ethnic group into one of two categories: 'Martial' and 'Non-Martial'.[citation needed] The ostensabile reason was that 'martial race' was typically brave and well built for fighting.[1] The 'non-martial races' were those whom the British believed to be unfit for battle because of their sedentary lifestyles.

Martial race theory debunked as major fallacy or colonial divide and rule policy. According to me, one major basis of martial race theory was sound aka separating sedentary lifestyle people from tough lifestyle men.Although there other basis too (colonial interests).

Practically martial theory is applicable to today's army of India and Pakistan.
Out of 20 Paramveer medal won by Indian men, atleast 14 belong to these castes.

Recipient of Paramveer Chakra:

Major Som Nath Sharma
Lance Naik Karam Singh --------------------------------Sikh
Second Lieutenant Rama Raghoba Rane ---------------Maratha
Naik Jadu Nath Singh --------------------------------Rajput
Company Havildar Major Piru Singh Shekhawat ---------Rajput
Captain Gurbachan Singh Salaria ---------------------Sikh
Major Dhan Singh Thapa ---------------------------Gorkha
Subedar Joginder Singh ---------------------------------Sikh
Major Shaitan Singh ---------------------------------Yadav
Havildar Abdul Hamid
Lieutenant-Colonel Ardeshir Burzorji Tarapore
Lance Naik Albert Ekka
Flying Officer Nirmal Jit Singh Sekhon ----------------Rajput
2/Lieutenant Arun Khetarpal ---------------------------Khatri or Rajput
Major Hoshiar Singh ---------------------------------Jat
Naib Subedar Bana Singh ----------------------Sikh
Major Ramaswamy Parameshwaran -----------------------Nairs (Not sure)
Captain Manoj Kumar Pandey
Grenadier Yogendra Singh Yadav ----------------------Yadav
Rifleman Sanjay Kumar ----------------------------------Jat
Captain Vikram Batra-------------------------------------Khatri

I may be wrong in 1 or 2 (Please correct me )....


Similar trend will emerge if we classify Pakistan's Nishan-e-haidar. At least 9 out 11 were from 'martial race'.

Recipient of Nishan-e-Haider:

Captain Muhammad Sarwar ----- Rajput
Major Muhammad Tufail---------- Rajput
Major Raja Aziz Bhatti ----------- Rajput
Major Muhammad Akram ----------Awan/Gujjar
Pilot Officer Rashid Minhas -------- Rajput
Major Shabbir Sharif
Sawar Muhammad Hussain --------- Rajput
Lance Naik Muhammad Mahfuz
Captain Karnal Sher Khan-----------Pathan
Havildar Lalak Jan
Naik Saif Ali Janjua------------------Janjua




So where is Martial race theory totally flawed ??

 

[Bhairava]

Martial race theory debunked as major fallacy or colonial divide and rule policy. According to me, one major basis of martial race theory was sound aka separating sedentary lifestyle people from tough lifestyle men.Although there other basis too (colonial interests).

The Shudras or the Dalits are the most hardworking of all the castes. And they are the ones with a least sedentary lifestyle.

So where is Martial race theory totally flawed ??

If there were more regiments like Reddy regiment, Kounder regiment, Kodava regiment etc then their chances of getting a PVC would have increased. Simple probability theory.

Anyway as long as the martial races theory serves a purpose I'm okay with it.

 

[Yaduveer]

Martial race theory can not be wrong just because you does not belong to it.

Please give us facts!

I can give similar facts regarding Mahavir Chakra and other medals.

If there were more regiments like Reddy regiment, Kounder regiment, Kodava regiment etc then their chances of getting a PVC would have increased. Simple probability theory.

Anyway as long as the martial races theory serves a purpose I'm okay with it.

Look there is no Yadav regiment , still two of them got it.

 

[Bhairava]

Martial race theory can not be wrong just because you does not belong too.

Puhleeeez. First of all you dont know about me.

Second, for instance, if you are going to come and touch my women or my land then you can bet your martial *** that you are going to get kicked.

What makes men martial is the surroundings, the situation and ofcourse the training.

Please give us facts!

If the martial races were indeed so martial why were you ruled for 800 years by outsiders and required the Maratha kings ably assisted by the mavali dalits to liberate you ?

Look there is no Yadav regiment , still two of them got it.

Statistical anomaly.

 

[harpoon]

Major Ramaswamy Parameshwaran -----------------------Nairs (Not sure)

I don't think Nairs is a designated 'Martial Race'.

 

[Bhairava]

Major Ramaswamy Parameshwaran -----------------------Nairs (Not sure)

I don't think Nairs is a designated 'Martial Race'.

They were I guess. Until they rebelled against the British.

 

[Yaduveer]

Puhleeeez. First of all you dont know about me.

Second, for instance, if you are going to come and touch my women or my land then you can bet your martial *** that you are going to get kicked.

What makes men martial is the surroundings, the situation and ofcourse the training.




If the martial races were indeed so martial why were you ruled for 800 years by outsiders and required the Maratha kings ably assisted by the mavali dalits to liberate you ?



Statistical anomaly.

Look brother ! Please don't take it personal, because what I commented was general.

Regarding 800 years, Pashtun,janjua are also martial...and they were muslims.

It is not about religion but lifestyle.

 

[Bhairava]

Look brother ! Please don't take it personal, because what I commented was general.

Regarding 800 years, Pashtun,janjua are also martial...and they were muslims.

It is not about religion but lifestyle.

There is nothing in this to be personal. You have some with a set mind that Martial Races theory is correct. I obviously disagree. Because it was the non-martial Bengali and Madrasi that really laid the foundation of the vast british empire, subduing each and every "martial" clan they encountered on the way. So lets agree to disagree.

But I stand with one thing that I said before - it was a sad spectacle that the martial races up there had to be rescued from the Turko-Mongols by others.

 

[Yaduveer]

They were I guess. Until they rebelled against the British.

Martial race was classified for convenience of Colonial masters, so that they are raise a disciplined army with minimum investment.

These tribes/castes were ready made soldiers, who rebelled against them , simply they remove from the list for sake of recruitment.

 

[nForce]

I have my doubts..During freedom struggle for Indian independence,there were varios forms of protest all over India.While people in Western and North India resorted to peaceful forms of protest,one of the strongest and militant form of nationalism was observed in Bengal.They were always up in arms and hurling bombs at British targets administrative and even military targets.
But then I think Bengalis are considered to peaceful community and not a martial race.
I guess,it all depends upon the situation.

 

[Yaduveer]

There is nothing in this to be personal. You have some with a set mind that Martial Races theory is correct. I obviously disagree. Because it was the non-martial Bengali and Madrasi that really laid the foundation of the vast british empire, subduing each and every "martial" clan they encountered on the way. So lets agree to disagree.

But I stand with one thing that I said before - it was a sad spectacle that the martial races up there had to be rescued from the Turko-Mongols by others.

Who say there is no martial tribe/castes in Bengal or Tamilnadu ?

Brother don't hogwash here and there , come with facts,... Thakurs,Muslims(mainly migrant Afghans,Turks...remember Sher shah suri ) in Bengal and Kodava,Nairs,Vanniya kula in south are from martial race.


Come to present Indian and Pakistan army, I'm ready to debunk that there is nothing martial about martial tribe/castes but you have to give me facts.

 

[livingdead]

In some areas/tribes, joining an army is a heredity thing, their parents and grandparents were in the army.
Because a caste/tribe is overrepresented in army, they will be overrepresented in the award list.

Gujrati/marwari/jains are overrepresented in business, everybody wants to do business from that community hence big businessmen/traders are from that region( not because any business race theory)

There was a proposal to change all the caste/tribe based regiment names but Indian army opposed it.
Also, maratha is not a single tribe/caste as far as I know.

 

[Yaduveer]

I have my doubts..During freedom struggle for Indian independence,there were varios forms of protest all over India.While people in Western and North India resorted to peaceful forms of protest,one of the strongest and militant form of nationalism was observed in Bengal.They were always up in arms and hurling bombs at British targets administrative and even military targets.
But then I think Bengalis are considered to peaceful community and not a martial race.
I guess,it all depends upon the situation.

Yeah! Chandra Sekhar Azad and Bhagat singh were torch bearer of peacefulness in Northern India.

 

[Roybot]

If based on 2 PVC Ahirs can be martial, then how come Brahmans are not?

 

[Yaduveer]

In some areas/tribes, joining an army is a heredity thing, their parents and grandparents were in the army.
Because a caste/tribe is overrepresented in army, they will be overrepresented in the award list.

Gujrati/marwari/jains are overrepresented in business, everybody wants to do business from that community hence big businessmen/traders are from that region( not because any business race theory)

There was a proposal to change all the caste/tribe based regiment names but Indian army opposed it.
Also, maratha is not a single tribe/caste as far as I know.

Why they were over-represented in the first place ??