Are The Afghan Taliban Different From The Pakistani Taliban?

[waraich66]

What's more important- a true islamic state in every respect as envisioned, for instance, if the taliban were able to gain control of Afghanistan by the power of their gun, or Pakistan regardless of whether it remains governed by Zardari with democratic elections regularly scheduled?

If the afghan taliban conquered Afghanistan, how many here would emigrate to Afghanistan and live under taliban sharia?

These are two serious questions of which I'd like to know the answer from all those whom I've not yet placed on "ignore".

Thanks.

Talaban never captured Afghanistan with power of gun , also after US exit local Afghan will well come them , Talaban rule was not ideal but better than War lord ,Russian and ISAF rule.

 

[Ahmad]

Talaban never captured Afghanistan with power of gun ,

Are you sure about this?

 

[FireFighter]

S-2,

All you've got to offer to support your pro-war argument is a petty statement from Bruce Reidal?? A closet Israeli American with the agenda of Saban Institute - an Israeli think tank - and a mouth piece of the American military industry, i'm sure he makes a hella money serving his masters


How many times has Reidal met the Taliban? how long has he lived in Afghanistan? how many local languages does he speak?

He has no credibility when compared to professional journalists like Yousufzai, Orakzai who speak pashtu, understand the Afghan Tribal culture, and have met the Afghan Taliban dozens of times, not to mention they have spent their *entire lives* covering wars in that part of the world


Your bubble of misinfo has been burst


NEXT...

 

[waraich66]

Are you sure about this?

Yes , only in mazar shrif area they were in conflict with ahmad shah mahsud and dostum armies

 

[FireFighter]

What's more important- a true islamic state in every respect as envisioned, for instance, if the taliban were able to gain control of Afghanistan by the power of their gun, or Pakistan regardless of whether it remains governed by Zardari with democratic elections regularly scheduled?

If the afghan taliban conquered Afghanistan, how many here would emigrate to Afghanistan and live under taliban sharia?

These are two serious questions of which I'd like to know the answer from all those whom I've not yet placed on "ignore".

Thanks.

I'm not a proponent of the Taliban Sharia nor I would ever aspire to live in it largely due to cultural and differences in religious interpretation and their warrior lifestyles.

But, one has to take the extremely aggressive nature of the Afghan Tribal culture and elements in that culture that nurture warlords, landlords, smugglers and criminals that give life to all forms of inhumane activities and humanitarian abuses. The only way to stop those madmen is through the enforcement of some sort of a moral code, preferably *their* interpretation of Shariah and culture, that is acceptable to most of them, as history has shown. Yes, that may seem to be really harsh to much of the liberal west, for ex hanging criminals in stadiums in broad daylight, but that IS how things are done in much of rural Afghanistan. in that part of the world for ex tit-for-tat tribal killings are still present in Afgh culture despite of Islam, communism and neo liberal democratic systems. Both the communists and western neo-liberals systems have proven to be failures, instead of containing the war-lords, poppy farmers, and criminal elements in Afgh, with their leniency they gave a *new life* to criminal cultures in Afgh, and have proven to be incompatible and not functional with their cultural and religious traditions. Complete failures.

What else would you suggest in *realistic* terms? Even Gen. McChrystal has realized it, and i believe hes trying his best to marganize and disintegrate and separate the Taliban from the non-compliant hard-headed extremist elements, hence Obama giving green light to McChrystal to buy the Talib tribes out of war...

Well.... time is not on his side and he's running out of options now

 

[dabong1]

If the afghan taliban conquered Afghanistan, how many here would emigrate to Afghanistan and live under taliban sharia?

Well considering that you think that the afghan govt is so good......why dont you move and live under them?

Under any afghan govt since the last 50 odd years very few peole would have wanted to live there.

These are two serious questions of which I'd like to know the answer from all those whom I've not yet placed on "ignore".

Thanks.

Let me guess......all the people you have placed under ignore are the ones that give you the real arguments.
Please tell me i am on this list!

 

[Ahmad]

Yes , only in mazar shrif area they were in conflict with ahmad shah mahsud and dostum armies

you are deadly wrong.

 

[The Patriot]

Its interesting topic. Here are my thoughts.
I would like to divide my post in sections below:

Ideology:

Time has proved that both Pakistani Taliban (PT or TTP) and Afghan Taliban (AT) are ideologically the same. In other words, they are the two heads of the same monster. This analogy is based on the following undeniable, observed and reported facts:
1. They both adhere to extremist Deobandi and Salafi or Wahabi school of thoughts.
2. During the rule of AT, they denied women education, beat them in streets, killed those who did not follow their instructions, set up their own so called Shariat courts where some rural idiot who would have not gone under the laborious work of Islamic scholarship issue death sentences, they forbid clean shave and so barber shops were closed, they closed down CD shops and banned music and other arts, they destroyed archeological heritages like Buddha statues, they did not have any educated social scientists or economist in their ranks, they did not allow any opposition of views, they rule by the harsh use of force. The same is true about PT when they ruled in Swat and until recently in SW. Opponents were slaughtered, clean shave was forbidden, girls’ education was forbidden, CD shops destroyed, artists either killed or threatened, Shariat courts established, women beaten up in streets, suppressed any opposing view with harsh use of force. They also blew up the Buddha statue in Miandam, Swat.
3. Both AT and PT lack religious scholarship.
4. Both get support and training from Al Qaeda.
5. AT wants to establish sharia rule in Afghanistan while PT wants the same in Pakistan, both have expressed this goal in their repeated statements. This Sharia rule is based on the same ideology.

Having said that lets see their relations in the past and present:

Past:

PT has always supported AT. They were often class mates in the seminaries of Pakistan. Baituallah had fought alongside AT and had visited Afghanistan several times. Fazlullah and Nek Muhammad did the same. Other foot soldiers also used to go to Afghanistan to fight along side their brothers in Afghanistan. Till 2001 when Pakistan took a U turn on AT, it was quite common and accepted norm in Pakistan to help AT. After 2003, AT when finding it hard to cross over to Afghanistan started to focus on Pakistan. The agenda remained the same for both the organizations. PT was doing AT’s work in Pakistan: 1) to force GoP to abandon its support in the War on Terror; 2) to provide strategic depth to AT; 3) to try to cut the supply line of NATO troops in Pakistan; 4) and lastly which came very late, is to impose Sharia in Pakistan too. This last change of heart was not something new. There were reasons for this: 1) Al Qaeda, this whole coordination was being done by al Qaeda. AQ was provided brains, training, money and weapons for strengthening PT. AQ’s found fertile ground for its objectives in Tribal Areas in special and Pakistan in general. AQ gave them hope that they could in fact take over Pakistan. Their moral went up by the repeated failures of PA in SW and Swat. It is the goal of AQ to take over at least one Islamic country in order for bringing Caliphate system. Readers can refer to Syed Qutub’s book for this. They had tried this in Sudan but failed, then in Afghanistan and lately they saw this opportunity in Pakistan; 2) power syndrome: some PT leaders like Nek Muhammad, Baituallah and Fazlullah saw their rise to power and tasted the fruits of ultimate power. When they started to enjoy power they became corrupt of their original ideology and wanted to perpetuate their power. But relationship between AP and TP although reduced was still there. This reduction was caused by: 1) US drones hovering over their heads all the time; 2) PA blocking their way on Pakistani side while NATO on the Afghan side; 3) AQ’s role in focusing them on Pakistani front in the new geo strategic situation; 4) leadership did not want to lose power by sending men and ammunition to Afghanistan. This was largely true for TTP.

Present:
The present situation is very complex and need though analysis. In my view, to untangle this, lets divide PT. One groups is TTP: 1) TTP for various reasons I cited above lost direct interest in Afghanistan and focused on Pakistan. But they have repeatedly said that they want to help their Afghan brothers by attacking PA to stop support of War on Terror. They attack NATO supply line, and attack GoP and PA to pressurize it to stop support for WoT and stop operations in Tribal Areas so that they could do whatever they want. 2) Al Qaeda is the link between TTP and AT. AQ taught them making explosives like IEDs, suicide vests, landmines, Car bombs to TTP as well as AT. AQ had perfected these skills in Iraq and brought them to these areas. AQ is the mind behind both AP and TTP. Some TTP guys can still cross over to Afghanistan in order to escape operation by PA. They can get shelter at AT. AT tried to dissociate itself from TTP when it saw that it will be finally knocked down by Pakistan and they it will lose its strategic depth in Pakistan. In fact, in the past, not long ago, they called in TTP to come over to Afghanistan.
Other Talibans, under the umbrella of TTP, like those in Bajaur, Mohmand have close ties with AT in Kunar and Nuristan. Qari Zaiur Rehmand who is the commander of those areas have clearly showed his support for them. There is active coordination among them.
If you minus TTP from PT then you are left with guys like Gul Bahadur, Haqqani, Maulvi Nazir, who still help AP. And this is the second group. it is mostly based in North Waziristan. These guys have peace deals with GoP under which they will not attack PA as long as PA doesn’t interfere in their affairs. They openly support AT.

The third group is the independent or volunteers ‘jihadis’. They also include some foreigners. This group doesn’t know much of the complexity of the situation but they want to carry out ‘jihad’. They, if, get into contact with LeT are most probably pushed into Afghanistan or if get in touch with Gul Bahadur and other guys, again to Afghanistan, but if come in touch with Ghazir force, LeJ, SSP or TTP may end up with TTP. They are free swingers and can offer their services anywhere in Afghanistan and Pakistan.

Future Scenarios:

I will try to predict some scenarios in the future:
1) Pakistan remains partner in WoT, takes on TTP and will defeat it. But terror incidents will continue for some years in different parts by splinter groups and members of TTP. The real test will come when the US will put pressure on Pakistan to take on those Taliban like Gul Bahadur and Maulvi Nazir. Pakistan will either have to convince them to not cross the border or will take action. The first case can be achieved if Pakistan convincingly defeat TTP which will give message to these Taliban that they can be routed if they don’t listen. In the second case, another front will be opened and will take a heavy toll on Pakistanis. Political support may dwindle for PA. and those Taliban may also resort to terrorism in Pakistan. It means we are talking anther four to five years of operations and violence.

2) NATO and ISAF leaves, and AT takes over. This would be a nightmare for Pakistan. Their previous stubbornness have shown that AT will not serve Pakistan’s interests. They did not listen to Pakistan then in cases of handover of OBL, not accepting Durand line as international border and not listening to Pakistan request to not destroy Buddha statues. It will mean for Pakistan that everything is back to square one. AT ideology will spillover to Pakistan. They have a lot of sympathizers and supporters in Pakistan who will become their assets. These assets will get their strategic depth in Afghanistan. They will demand the same system in Pakistan. Why would they not wish the same system for themselves which they supported for Afghans. But this scenario is unlikely to happen.

3) ISAF and NATO pulls out and Afghan government is able to take affairs into its hands. AT take part in process, and hardcore elements are separated and hunted down. They are also denied sanctuaries in Pakistan. This scenario is unlikely to happen in near future.

4) The likely scenario would be, if NATO pulls out, bloody civil war. Taliban will not be able to take over Afghanistan again: 1) they have resorted to terrorist activities and no terror movement has so far been able to succeed in the world; 2) AT do not represent minority. The fact that their who support comes from Pashtuns who are 40 per cent. And they have hardly an support of the majority of the Pashtuns. Which means their support comes down to less than 20 percent. In the past and in the present, thanks to their harsh policies, they have alienated much of the Afghans. They do have some support in different pockets and their they still terrorise people and make them support them. It is just like the same TTP, which represent less than five percent of Swat or SW but took effective control of it. 3) World will not allow again Afghanistan to be ruled by these barbarians.
The civil war will have very adverse effects on Pakistan. Refugees, trade, terror, gun culture, opium, war economy, al Qaeda all will come together to play havoc in Pakistan.

Options for Pakistan and ISAF

For Pakistan:

To make a comprehensive counter terrorism strategy including prevention, preempting, and coordination. All kinds of extremists shall be denounced and effective measures shall be taken both on ideological, political and military fronts to tackle extremists. Sound coordination shall be established with ISAF and NATO. Capacity building of police, FC and intelligence agencies shall be done on war footing. Borders with Afghanistan shall be fenced.

For ISAF and NATO:

Troops shall be increased to give AT final blow. ANA shall be strengthened and development shall be achieved on fast track basis. They should help Pakistan in capacity building and technological needs. Once, ANA and Afghan police are made capable of fighting AT they should start phased withdrawal.

I would be glad to have your comments and criticism. But pl avoid cheap shots and argue with sound analysis and logic.

Thanks for your time!

 

[waraich66]

you are deadly wrong.

Let us tell your story but please with links if possible.

 

[waraich66]

Time has proved that both Pakistani Taliban (PT or TTP) and Afghan Taliban (AT) are ideologically the same. In other words, they are the two heads of the same monster. This analogy is based on the following undeniable, observed and reported facts:
1. They both adhere to extremist Deobandi and Salafi or Wahabi school of thoughts.

Let me clear you concept Afghan Talaban follow deobandi school of thought but TTP under influence of Ahle hadees (kair mukalada) idealogy dont follow any fiqa.

Wahabis are follower of Fiqa Shafi

2. During the rule of AT, they denied women education, beat them in streets, killed those who did not follow their instructions, set up their own so called Shariat courts where some rural idiot who would have not gone under the laborious work of Islamic scholarship issue death sentences, they forbid clean shave and so barber shops were closed, they closed down CD shops and banned music and other arts, they destroyed archeological heritages like Buddha statues, they did not have any educated social scientists or economist in their ranks, they did not allow any opposition of views, they rule by the harsh use of force. The same is true about PT when they ruled in Swat and until recently in SW. Opponents were slaughtered, clean shave was forbidden, girls’ education was forbidden, CD shops destroyed, artists either killed or threatened, Shariat courts established, women beaten up in streets, suppressed any opposing view with harsh use of force. They also blew up the Buddha statue in Miandam, Swat.
3. Both AT and PT lack religious scholarship.
4. Both get support and training from Al Qaeda.
5. AT wants to establish sharia rule in Afghanistan while PT wants the same in Pakistan, both have expressed this goal in their repeated statements. This Sharia rule is based on the same ideology.

AT try to establish shariah in Afghanistan but could not suceed fully , TTP movement based on Al Qaeada distructive idealogy , also they are getting aid from India and Israeli agencies.

Please campare apple with Apple?????

Having said that lets see their relations in the past and present:

Past:

PT has always supported AT. They were often class mates in the seminaries of Pakistan. Baituallah had fought alongside AT and had visited Afghanistan several times. Fazlullah and Nek Muhammad did the same. Other foot soldiers also used to go to Afghanistan to fight along side their brothers in Afghanistan. Till 2001 when Pakistan took a U turn on AT, it was quite common and accepted norm in Pakistan to help AT. After 2003, AT when finding it hard to cross over to Afghanistan started to focus on Pakistan. The agenda remained the same for both the organizations. PT was doing AT’s work in Pakistan: 1) to force GoP to abandon its support in the War on Terror; 2) to provide strategic depth to AT; 3) to try to cut the supply line of NATO troops in Pakistan; 4) and lastly which came very late, is to impose Sharia in Pakistan too. This last change of heart was not something new. There were reasons for this: 1) Al Qaeda, this whole coordination was being done by al Qaeda. AQ was provided brains, training, money and weapons for strengthening PT. AQ’s found fertile ground for its objectives in Tribal Areas in special and Pakistan in general. AQ gave them hope that they could in fact take over Pakistan. Their moral went up by the repeated failures of PA in SW and Swat. It is the goal of AQ to take over at least one Islamic country in order for bringing Caliphate system. Readers can refer to Syed Qutub’s book for this. They had tried this in Sudan but failed, then in Afghanistan and lately they saw this opportunity in Pakistan; 2) power syndrome: some PT leaders like Nek Muhammad, Baituallah and Fazlullah saw their rise to power and tasted the fruits of ultimate power. When they started to enjoy power they became corrupt of their original ideology and wanted to perpetuate their power. But relationship between AP and TP although reduced was still there. This reduction was caused by: 1) US drones hovering over their heads all the time; 2) PA blocking their way on Pakistani side while NATO on the Afghan side; 3) AQ’s role in focusing them on Pakistani front in the new geo strategic situation; 4) leadership did not want to lose power by sending men and ammunition to Afghanistan. This was largely true for TTP.

AT never suported TTP , do you have any proof??????

Present:
The present situation is very complex and need though analysis. In my view, to untangle this, lets divide PT. One groups is TTP: 1) TTP for various reasons I cited above lost direct interest in Afghanistan and focused on Pakistan. But they have repeatedly said that they want to help their Afghan brothers by attacking PA to stop support of War on Terror. They attack NATO supply line, and attack GoP and PA to pressurize it to stop support for WoT and stop operations in Tribal Areas so that they could do whatever they want. 2) Al Qaeda is the link between TTP and AT. AQ taught them making explosives like IEDs, suicide vests, landmines, Car bombs to TTP as well as AT. AQ had perfected these skills in Iraq and brought them to these areas. AQ is the mind behind both AP and TTP. Some TTP guys can still cross over to Afghanistan in order to escape operation by PA. They can get shelter at AT. AT tried to dissociate itself from TTP when it saw that it will be finally knocked down by Pakistan and they it will lose its strategic depth in Pakistan. In fact, in the past, not long ago, they called in TTP to come over to Afghanistan.
Other Talibans, under the umbrella of TTP, like those in Bajaur, Mohmand have close ties with AT in Kunar and Nuristan. Qari Zaiur Rehmand who is the commander of those areas have clearly showed his support for them. There is active coordination among them.
If you minus TTP from PT then you are left with guys like Gul Bahadur, Haqqani, Maulvi Nazir, who still help AP. And this is the second group. it is mostly based in North Waziristan. These guys have peace deals with GoP under which they will not attack PA as long as PA doesn’t interfere in their affairs. They openly support AT.

The third group is the independent or volunteers ‘jihadis’. They also include some foreigners. This group doesn’t know much of the complexity of the situation but they want to carry out ‘jihad’. They, if, get into contact with LeT are most probably pushed into Afghanistan or if get in touch with Gul Bahadur and other guys, again to Afghanistan, but if come in touch with Ghazir force, LeJ, SSP or TTP may end up with TTP. They are free swingers and can offer their services anywhere in Afghanistan and Pakistan.

TTP could block NATO supply but why they had not done it , instead they were attacking on PA ?????? this is biggest proof that they are working on indian and israeli agenda.

Future Scenarios:

I will try to predict some scenarios in the future:
1) Pakistan remains partner in WoT, takes on TTP and will defeat it. But terror incidents will continue for some years in different parts by splinter groups and members of TTP. The real test will come when the US will put pressure on Pakistan to take on those Taliban like Gul Bahadur and Maulvi Nazir. Pakistan will either have to convince them to not cross the border or will take action. The first case can be achieved if Pakistan convincingly defeat TTP which will give message to these Taliban that they can be routed if they don’t listen. In the second case, another front will be opened and will take a heavy toll on Pakistanis. Political support may dwindle for PA. and those Taliban may also resort to terrorism in Pakistan. It means we are talking anther four to five years of operations and violence.

2) NATO and ISAF leaves, and AT takes over. This would be a nightmare for Pakistan. Their previous stubbornness have shown that AT will not serve Pakistan’s interests. They did not listen to Pakistan then in cases of handover of OBL, not accepting Durand line as international border and not listening to Pakistan request to not destroy Buddha statues. It will mean for Pakistan that everything is back to square one. AT ideology will spillover to Pakistan. They have a lot of sympathizers and supporters in Pakistan who will become their assets. These assets will get their strategic depth in Afghanistan. They will demand the same system in Pakistan. Why would they not wish the same system for themselves which they supported for Afghans. But this scenario is unlikely to happen.

3) ISAF and NATO pulls out and Afghan government is able to take affairs into its hands. AT take part in process, and hardcore elements are separated and hunted down. They are also denied sanctuaries in Pakistan. This scenario is unlikely to happen in near future.

4) The likely scenario would be, if NATO pulls out, bloody civil war. Taliban will not be able to take over Afghanistan again: 1) they have resorted to terrorist activities and no terror movement has so far been able to succeed in the world; 2) AT do not represent minority. The fact that their who support comes from Pashtuns who are 40 per cent. And they have hardly an support of the majority of the Pashtuns. Which means their support comes down to less than 20 percent. In the past and in the present, thanks to their harsh policies, they have alienated much of the Afghans. They do have some support in different pockets and their they still terrorise people and make them support them. It is just like the same TTP, which represent less than five percent of Swat or SW but took effective control of it. 3) World will not allow again Afghanistan to be ruled by these barbarians.
The civil war will have very adverse effects on Pakistan. Refugees, trade, terror, gun culture, opium, war economy, al Qaeda all will come together to play havoc in Pakistan.

Options for Pakistan and ISAF

For Pakistan:

To make a comprehensive counter terrorism strategy including prevention, preempting, and coordination. All kinds of extremists shall be denounced and effective measures shall be taken both on ideological, political and military fronts to tackle extremists. Sound coordination shall be established with ISAF and NATO. Capacity building of police, FC and intelligence agencies shall be done on war footing. Borders with Afghanistan shall be fenced.

For ISAF and NATO:

Troops shall be increased to give AT final blow. ANA shall be strengthened and development shall be achieved on fast track basis. They should help Pakistan in capacity building and technological needs. Once, ANA and Afghan police are made capable of fighting AT they should start phased withdrawal.

I would be glad to have your comments and criticism. But pl avoid cheap shots and argue with sound analysis and logic.

Thanks for your time!

AT never attacked on PA , they have already achieved their target and ISAF is very close to complete surrender, wait and see soon US will exit from Afghanistan.

PA had flushed all TTP terrorist and they will continue search and kill mission .

Your analysis is totally misleading .

 

[Developereo]

The Afghan Taliban have repeatedly said that, unlike AQ, they have no agenda outside Afghanistan. But I do share your concern that they probably would try to export their ideology to neighboring countries and revitalize the TTP.

i can see contradiction in this post.

There is no contradiction. The Afghan Taliban do not have a global agenda for a pan-Islamic Caliphate. But they would export cultural influence over their neighbors, just like any country, including India.

Pakistan is in a tough situation. We don't want an Indian puppet NA government in Afghanistan

but you want a pakistani puppet in place in that country, right?

I have already said that Afghanistan should have an independent government, free of both Pakistani and Indian influence. You already know that from our other discussions, but I notice you like to prop up these strawmen arguments like a pathetic Indian apologist. It seems you are being deliberately facetious just to be argumentative.

The same issue is with Pakistan. India has been blaming them for decades but have you accepted? Also at least what is expected from you is to send proof to India or are you expecting India to accept it without it. If that ia yes reciprocate the same when it's your turn

We do not expect India to accept the proof. Nor do we expect their minders in the West to be particularly objective or forthcoming in this matter, given their current agenda for building up India as a counter to China.

The only thing Pakistan can do is to make India aware that we know exactly what they are up to.

What's more important- a true islamic state in every respect as envisioned, for instance, if the taliban were able to gain control of Afghanistan by the power of their gun, or Pakistan regardless of whether it remains governed by Zardari with democratic elections regularly scheduled?

The Taliban are not, and have never been, in any position to "gain control of" Pakistan. As others have mentioned, it would be more conducive to a sane discussion if you stop quoting rabidly anti-Pakistan propagandists like Brude Reidel and Seymour Hersch. The only thing will get this way will be the usual Indian jingoists cheering you on.

If the afghan taliban conquered Afghanistan, how many here would emigrate to Afghanistan and live under taliban sharia?

By that logic, anybody who opposed the Vietnam war was really a communist.

NATO is an invading force with its own agenda, which has nothing to do with the Afghans' own wellbeing. Also, contrary to NATO propaganda, the Taliban are fighting only to evict the invaders and regain control of their country. I abhor their ideology, but I am also not thrilled about NATO's agenda.

till u guys live in this disillusioned world of calling Afghan taliban gud and TTP bad and justify supporting one form.. no body can save ur country....

It's not that the Afghan Taliban are good, but the fact that the NATO invasion has pushed some of them into Pakistan and is creating problems in Pakistan. I would like the Afghan Taliban to return to Afghanistan, and for Pakistan to kill or reform the TTP. Furthermore, if possible, Pakistan should try to reform the Afghan Taliban, simply because we don't want their kind of ideology in our neighborhood.

 

[S-2]

"The Taliban are not, and have never been, in any position to "gain control of" Pakistan."

They seem to think otherwise. Now who's the jingoist?

"NATO is an invading force with its own agenda, which has nothing to do with the Afghans' own wellbeing."

You are a liar.

NATO is in Afghanistan under a U.N. mandate and by the invitation of the duly-elected Afghan government. Their purpose has EVERYTHING to do with the well-being of the afghan people. At no time has NATO provided any indication that its purpose extends beyond the stabilization of Afghanistan. Nobody could suggest that intent in any way has anything but the well-being of the afghan people at its heart

Never.

Those are the facts. Your diatribe constitutes a twisted irhabist narrative to suit your narrow repressive agenda.

It, however, allows me to know that you do see a difference between the afghan taliban and the pakistani taliban. I'll be fascinated to know how that shall be reconciled by you with Mullah F.M. living in Konar/Nuristan under the protection and with the support of the afghan taliban.

Thanks...liar.

 

[Developereo]

"The Taliban are not, and have never been, in any position to "gain control of" Pakistan."

They seem to think otherwise. Now who's the jingoist?

That would be you, since you would rather believe the delusions of a ragtag bunch of foreign-funded fanatics to suit your prejudice, than face the reality that the state of Pakistan has never been under threat of collapse from TTP.

"NATO is an invading force with its own agenda, which has nothing to do with the Afghans' own wellbeing."

You are a liar.

NATO is in Afghanistan under a U.N. mandate and by the invitation of the duly-elected Afghan government. Their purpose has EVERYTHING to do with the well-being of the afghan people. At no time has NATO provided any indication that its purpose extends beyond the stabilization of Afghanistan. Nobody could suggest that intent in any way has anything but the well-being of the afghan people at its heart

Wrong by a mile and a half.
NATO invaded to avenge 9/11, and when the mission turned out to be not quite accomplished as yet, has been stuck in the mud.

For eight years, NATO abandoned Afghanistan and is now thrashing about trying to find a face saving exit strategy.

Those are the facts. Your diatribe constitutes a twisted irhabist narrative to suit your narrow repressive agenda.

It, however, allows me to know that you do see a difference between the afghan taliban and the pakistani taliban. I'll be fascinated to know how that shall be reconciled by you with Mullah F.M. living in Konar/Nuristan under the protection and with the support of the afghan taliban.

Thanks...liar.

Yawn.

Your habitual descent into name calling when unable to respond is getting tiresome.

I don't like either Taliban, and I want both gone from Pakistan. Where they go and how they go is secondary.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Rocket attacks on public market places suggest that there's no uniformity of views within the afghan taliban.

Now you yourself have claimed numerous times that the women, children and non-combatants around the compounds that get targeted by US drones 'deserve to die' (paraphrasing you), since you argue that they should not even be present any where close to the insurgents.

How then is the US different from the Taliban, since you justify the death of innocent lives (or brand them as 'non-innocent' merely through association), other than the fact that your weaponry is more advanced and allows targeting with more precision than theirs?

Was there not a French Military official meeting in that area who was the actual target, but missed due to poor weapons systems? What if the Taliban had a Predator instead of RPG's?

 

[S-2]

"NATO invaded to avenge 9/11, and when the mission turned out to be not quite accomplished as yet, has been stuck in the mud."

America did so. Not one non-American force was involved in active combat prior to 2002. NATO was the implementer of the UN mandate established by the Bonn Accords.

As to Afghan well-being, your own tax dollars in Australia are spent to assure such-

AusAID and Afghanistan

I suppose that you are simply planting landmines with that $650m commitment your own small country has made. Would you suggest they are the only to do so? Or that Australia's contribution is itself a lie? I hope not because the overwhelming facts state otherwise.

"Your habitual descent into name calling when unable to respond is getting tiresome."

No. There's no name-calling present. What you are is a fact. It is indisputable when your comment is weighed against the mountain of evidence making clear the civil projects and money spent towards the afghan people's well-being, to include by the government of Australia where you live.

That you choose to explicitly ignore such makes your comment about the well-being of the afghan people an intentional distortion- a bald-faced lie. You offered such. Afterall-

"NATO is an invading force with its own agenda, which has nothing to do with the Afghans' own wellbeing."

"Nothing" is both absolute and explicit...and utterly disproved.

You are, therefore, a liar. Fear not, Developereo, as you've also now qualified for my "ignore" list.

Thanks.