Are Pakistani Security forces & Intelligence even capable of dealing with Talibans & other threats??

[Optimos Prime IA]

I know we all love our security forces and intelligence but lets for a moment put love affairs and patriotism aside, and think rationally, i'm by no means in any mood to troll rather being extremely serious here..



Pakistan has been in a turmoil for almost a decade now.. We can't go a month without a savage attack.. What are the security forces and intelligence upto?? Why they have failed miserably to protect the lives of its citizens??


Over 50,000 Pakistanis have died by now, When will this all end?? No body is certain when the next attack will happen.. It can happen anytime, anywhere..

The security forces have FAILED completely to protect us from such threats, I'm having serious doubts about their capabilities to counter such threats..


Why they haven't been able to intercept soo many terrorist attacks which happened??? Why terrorists can Attack and kill people in broad day light and flee from the seen, most have NEVER been caught..

WHY???


When will we admit that our security forces and intelligence are incompetent and of no use and we need to modify or strengthen them to counter such threats??


How much more bloodshed does it need for us to admit it??


Our intelligence itself was involved in training these Taliban outfits and arming them for years, and now they have turned up against Pakistan and we are bearing the fruits of it..

though one thing I don't understand. Lets say RAW is involved. Doesn't that make the PAK army and govt even more responsible and be a source of humiliation and shame that another country can wreak havoc in your country with such consummate ease whereas you stand helpless without being able to do anything



PS: Remember: Denial is the worst form of the truth..

Sir brother dear my friend . way you have raised is a valid point Out of clear frustration and I can understand that . As third person I see a different point and huge hole in your strategy to counter these gangs of cancer my friend . Cancer don't have partial medication but cut and throw it out . You have strong view that RAW is responsible . Well the main purpose or ISI FBI RAW
mI5 has one reason to exist which is to make sure its country is sage simple as that . You can't paint one organization with white and same kind of organization with red. But both do the same thing . But the problems starts when you lose control of your assets. Hope you will understand what is asserts means . These are the asserts which know every single step you take forward and pattern of it . When you rain hell on TTP you let other GOOD Assert have freedom. When these asserts are are let loose to do you wish many spoiled brats will have their own plan . May be to play double agent and make some serious cash and fame . This is where Pakistan is making a mistake which leaves a huge vacuum for TTP to fill in . The same tactics you thought these spoiled brats know turned on you . Taliban's are not a nations as a whole but a ideology which enjoys overwhelming support from most of the Pakistanis . Hope you understood what I have to say .

Even US RUSSIANS failed terribly not against Taliban but the Ideology . As far as we know its not possible to destroy it .Because its not a physical thing but mental illness . Better thing for Pakistan is to vacate all (NOTE IT :ALL) terrorist and stop these old failed counterproductive tactics of proxies yo hurt India . even this will take at least a decade or so yo do with willing and strong govt which can keep its organs in order. Which is highly unlikely given the fragile and weak democracy in your country . WHY ? Because my friend once you hurt someone its a normal human instinct to retaliate at any cost . As far as I know India is yet to do what you been doing for a very long time . But once India decides to go for offense its gonna add fuel to fire as unity in Pakistan is much worse than of India .

Its time to think and go back yo drawing board and do a reality check .Am not saying all of a sudden Pakistan should become friendly towards India or give up Kashmir . That we will sort out at battle field we sounds war cry . But if you want to compete with India it should be on economy . For that you need to have safe house . For that you need to take a hard pill for a hard problem if you really want to cure .Or else it will be too late for medication also.

 

[B@KH]

Here comes another slave of Iran wonder how different this sick mullah ideology from arab monarchy

they all are holding a Majlis in memory of the Deceased and Fallen victims:

Nawaz terms bus attack ‘enemies bid to impede economic progress’ - thenews.com.pk

 

[M.SAAD]

Sir brother dear my friend . way you have raised is a valid point Out of clear frustration and I can understand that . As third person I see a different point and huge hole in your strategy to counter these gangs of cancer my friend . Cancer don't have partial medication but cut and throw it out . You have strong view that RAW is responsible . Well the main purpose or ISI FBI RAW
mI5 has one reason to exist which is to make sure its country is sage simple as that . You can't paint one organization with white and same kind of organization with red. But both do the same thing . But the problems starts when you lose control of your assets. Hope you will understand what is asserts means . These are the asserts which know every single step you take forward and pattern of it . When you rain hell on TTP you let other GOOD Assert have freedom. When these asserts are are let loose to do you wish many spoiled brats will have their own plan . May be to play double agent and make some serious cash and fame . This is where Pakistan is making a mistake which leaves a huge vacuum for TTP to fill in . The same tactics you thought these spoiled brats know turned on you . Taliban's are not a nations as a whole but a ideology which enjoys overwhelming support from most of the Pakistanis . Hope you understood what I have to say .

Even US RUSSIANS failed terribly not against Taliban but the Ideology . As far as we know its not possible to destroy it .Because its not a physical thing but mental illness . Better thing for Pakistan is to vacate all (NOTE IT :ALL) terrorist and stop these old failed counterproductive tactics of proxies yo hurt India . even this will take at least a decade or so yo do with willing and strong govt which can keep its organs in order. Which is highly unlikely given the fragile and weak democracy in your country . WHY ? Because my friend once you hurt someone its a normal human instinct to retaliate at any cost . As far as I know India is yet to do what you been doing for a very long time . But once India decides to go for offense its gonna add fuel to fire as unity in Pakistan is much worse than of India .

Its time to think and go back yo drawing board and do a reality check .Am not saying all of a sudden Pakistan should become friendly towards India or give up Kashmir . That we will sort out at battle field we sounds war cry . But if you want to compete with India it should be on economy . For that you need to have safe house . For that you need to take a hard pill for a hard problem if you really want to cure .Or else it will be too late for medication also.

I actually agree with you, something got to be done in order to get Rid of terrorism in the country and the region itself....

 

[Armstrong]

Indeed but they are people who have been broken down psychologically and moulded again into the Army's definition of a suitable person. To put the whole nation through such a routine is impossible, not to mention will lead to numerous deaths and suicides. Military training is not for everyone, a man can survive physiological abuse, its psychological abuse that truly makes you realize that there are worse things than death.

Thats it conscription needs to be institutionalized in Pakistan !

Though I can only run around a km or two before I start panting like a dog....so Sethi Sahib mujhe seh bhagneiii walaa kaam nahin lenaaa !

But I am strong as an ox so when you ladies need to spar against a real man who uses 15-20 kg dumbbells for shadow boxing...hum haazir hain !

On a serious note : We do need some sort of national service - perhaps not military one - but something that takes a Pakistani and works on him for 3-4 years and molds him into a constructive citizen who is a Pakistani first, second and last - Just like Our Father wanted us to be !

I've often thought about this; I just don't know whether it could ever be feasible and whether in the absence of that an alternative exists to galvanize ourselves into a Nation or not ?

I wish we have the foresight to have something like the National Youth Administration meets Youth Volunteer Corps meets Civilian Conservation Corps meets some sort of a Pakistan Youth Corp type thing that instill in Pakistanis the spirit of self-less love, sacrifice, honor and dignity that got us Pakistan and at the same time makes them impassioned enough to go out into the field to educate the masses, help in building infrastructure, learn real-life skills, have exposure to internship opportunities in the Government sector, be vested in the happenings of their country and above all be the change that we all want to see !

 

[nik22]

How about unblemished track record ? Or data trends ? Eg. How many attacks have been on US homeland after 9/11 ?

ZERO !

Totally understand that security is a thankless job but efforts of intangibles can be quantified and given credit over a period of time !

US can be proud of the track record after 9/11. But you can not really give example of US for Pakistan. Situations and resources available are completely different.

Most important thing US has on its command is electronic surveillance. US has gone to extreme to avoid any terror incident. But as long as those works, compromise should be made. Can Pakistan or any other south Asian country monitor gmail, Skype, Facebook?
People are really cheap in these countries. You could have a man killed in $100 or less. People do anything for money. Such people are in general public, security agencies, politics. There are just too many people anyway.

Religious extremism run high. There are people who are uneducated, poor. They do not use their mind.

Also the region, Pakistan live in.

European countries should use example of US. They are vulnerable.

For US, Terrorism on its soil is less of a challenge. It is a fort you have build. For US, bigger challenges seem to be school shootings, narcotics, increasing racial divide. Some may say illegal migration as well . But I think that is controlled and who else would do the dirty job.

 

[Optimos Prime IA]

I actually agree with you, something got to be done in order to get Rid of terrorism in the country and the region itself....

I appreciate the stand you are taking now . I know its a hard choice. But you are a proud Pakistani who see all Pakistanis as your brothers augers and blood . Once entire Pakistan establishment takes this stand am sure prosperity will flow in Pakistan instead for blood . But again you will be left with hard choice .Which is whether to support govt stand or support army which put its men life at risk to protect ur mother land and people of Pakistan . Its really messy . If you see the politicians are done with revenge on 67 year old issues . Which is irrelevant in 2015 and so on . Good thing or bad our politicians looks to prosperity. And don't get me wrong its because they can loot its another story . In India even thou congress party plundered our nation at the end of the day they brought a ideology of Zero tolerance to terrorism and using it as weapon . Which is right thing to do . All we can do as of now is not to encourage general public with hate but with care for Pakistan . Once you care for Pakistan automatically think is will fall in place . We in India don't want to see a shattered Pakistan or failed state .Because its gonna tank on our development for sure. We can live with differences but not with Hate .

If you ask me Pakistan should choose prosperity as a weapon against India . Look what you have .A super power America and Growing power China .Just these two can turn it economy and make Pakistan a strong economical success . They want it but they are helpless . Once you enjoy prosperity your perspective about war will change .There will be lots to lose so silly mistakes will be taken care of . Hope your wisdom spread across Pakistan . It will be hard to believe or hard to happen .But India will stand with you once you take a call. After all we all are one clone . Why one can prosper other don't ?

 

[Areesh]

You are wrong my friend. 6 out of 10 sunnis will say that Shias are non-muslim. 3 out of 10 will term them as wajibul qatal.

OK Thank You. Leave Pakistan then.

 

[Khurram2349]

To answer your question "Are Pakistani Security forces & Intelligence even capable of dealing with Talibans & other threats??" , I believe YES THEY ARE ! but their priorities are wrong ! Military is most powerful institution in Pakistan which also have ruled for over 30 years out of 67 years in Pakistan and each time they remove a civilian Government on charge of corruption then they do promise to bring the looted money back but instead they start to collaborate with these corrupt politicians and corruption is never stopped in our country. Have the corrupt or traitors were ever taken to task by our military Governments then today we would never have seen such bad state in which we are . The terrorism menace reached its peak only after our military gave NRO to the criminal politicians and let them rule the country .

Now our Military under General Raheel Shareef is trying its best to finish this terrorism menace but roots of corruption in our society are so deep that their efforts are getting so much hindrances. The corrupt politicians and their cronies are infact encouraging terrorists to keep military engaged so that military do not have time or energy to catch the corrupt elite . Unless Military take action against corrupt politicians like Zardari and Nawaz Sharif, and looters like Mansha , Malik Riaz and so on we will never see terrorism end from our country.

 

[salarsikander]

they all are holding a Majlis in memory of the Deceased and Fallen victims:

Nawaz terms bus attack ‘enemies bid to impede economic progress’ - thenews.com.pk

I am not sure what you mean by this post

 

[Mutakalim]

Pakistan has been in a turmoil for almost a decade now.. We can't go a month without a savage attack.. What are the security forces and intelligence upto?? Why they have failed miserably to protect the lives of its citizens??

Performance of intelligence agencies is not up to mark. We can associate few huge gambles with our intelligence community like mehran base attack, GHQ attack, loss of saab AWACS and Osama's episode etc etc. They failed to intercept these attacks which result in huge embarrassment.
We cant neglect the role played by our civil authorities. they are also responsible for this underachievement.
The dilemma with intelligence is that your gambles came out very early and your achievements remains under the carpet. We don't know yet how many sabotage activities are stopped and what is their current progress.
It is true that we are not able to perform well at tactical level, but our strategic mistakes are more than that, and have far reaching consequences.
@Icarus



.

 

[Tipu7]

First decide how many of these were Shia, Ahmedis, Ismailis, Christians. May be a little number of sunnis also died, you see the thing is Armed forces are majority Sunni so to awake them you need to kill sunnis in large number, preferable if they could be killed in masses at one time. Its a D*ck measurement competition so kill sunnis and attack their mosques and see the reaction of armed forces, they have not done enough yet may be that will increase their efficiency and competence.

heap of garbage ...............

 

[Mutakalim]

First decide how many of these were Shia, Ahmedis, Ismailis, Christians. May be a little number of sunnis also died, you see the thing is Armed forces are majority Sunni so to awake them you need to kill sunnis in large number, preferable if they could be killed in masses at one time. Its a D*ck measurement competition so kill sunnis and attack their mosques and see the reaction of armed forces, they have not done enough yet may be that will increase their efficiency and competence.

Not expecting this from you.

 

[WAR-rior]

Security and Intelligence is a thankless profession, everyone knows your failures but no one knows your successes because if it doesn't bleed, it doesn't lead. If you believe that these attacks have been happening because he security forces are not doing anything, or are not able to do anything in accordance with your argument then you severely underestimate the scale of the problem we have.
After the attack, have you been watching the story develop on social media? There is massive support for the attack from all circles that justify it either as an attack on Shia or those who are completely clueless and consider the Ismaelis to be a branch of Ahmediya and therefore seek to justify any efforts to cull them.
We are living in a country where we have a prospective brigade of these beasts living among us, in our own localities, thousands are arrested and yet millions remain. Its not as much a security failure as it is a social failure.
Then of course there is the little issue being that we are a nation at war, yet we have the laws that seem hell bent on offering civil liberties to the most undesirable elements of society, many of the attackers and facilitators are people who have been produced before courts in the past and have been let off, what more can security agencies do? Killing them without producing them in court also leads to an uproar. In essence, our security apparatus isn't just fighting the terrorists and their sympathizers, it is also fighting the gullibility of our own people who think of this scum as human.

Tough I heartly want terrorism to end from sub continent, Tough I feel sad for innocents getting killed (We Indians were angered even more after Peshawar attack and were a little scared that this cud happen to our children too), Tough I feel that ur country is still confused with the extrimists and different versions of Islam which is biggest reason of your Security agencies' failure, I do agree with u that its indeed a thankless job and we have to give it to the security guyz.

But the point u raised that its not bout the armed forces but the civilians which are the reason for this failure, I do want to remind u that this same scenario exist within ur Armed forces too which is actually the supreme body in your country. Pakistani Army, as the critiques call as are either the Whisky Generals or the Mulla Generals. Now when religion takes such a huge toll within the biggest body in your country how do u expect civilians to not follow them ?

The strongest leader has to be rational and then only the followers tend to follw.

 

[Kao Boy]

Honest thread to analyse the current situation however if it would have been started by any Indian then introspection would have missing... just blames and blames...

It is imminent that Pakistan will develop good relations with Iran as Pakistan stood for herself during the invite to intervene in Yemen war, Afghanistan too showing positive signs.. however it should be utmost priority to dismantle madarsas where these fanatics are made in the tribal regions..one of my thread claims that TTP is reviving and strengthening it self... which is worrying..

 

[RAMPAGE]

OK Thank You. Leave Pakistan then.

Not the kind. Thanks for the suggestion.